Home Forums Bike Forum Sick as a dog so, show me you Bivi / Bikepacking / Adventure racing gear…..

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  • Sick as a dog so, show me you Bivi / Bikepacking / Adventure racing gear…..
  • Tiger6791
    Full Member

    yeah my coke can stove goes out immediately if I put the pot directly on top. Figures really, like you said, it’s gotta get air from somewhere.

    I think if my ‘A’ level Chemistry is right that it is going out because the cold pan cools the stove too much and the meths then cools and doesn’t evaporate as well.

    Nothing to do with a lack of air. The gaseous meths mixes with the air and therefore combustion occurs after it has left the jet holes.

    Air and combustion inside the stove under pressure would result in a bang!

    A proper ‘Pop can’ stove 🙂

    pedalhead
    Free Member

    ah you are clearly far wiser than I in the ways of burning stuff :-). I seem to recall it does it even when the pot is hot, but I’ll have a mess about with it later & see.

    IanB
    Free Member

    Not sure that’s going to work, cardboard at a minimum but I would recommend aluminium though.

    You lot are soo funny 🙄 😉

    I reckon after using one if you can make the two piece one it would be better for the bike as it would pack better

    Patience, this will all be addressed when I do the aluminium one.

    Stoves – what flatfish said is right I reckon. I think the ratio of height to internal diameter, and possibly material is key to the Whitebox performing properly. If you built a pop can stove of comparable height and diameter, you might fnd it doesn’t go out when you put the stove on top.

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    Just back in from the workshop to make a brew. So we’re thinking that any combustion is taking place outside the stove once the pan goes on top and it’s the physical heat of the stove which keeps the vapourised meths alight (a kind of glowplug effect). There also seems to be a direct link between how long the flames are (from jet to pan bottom) and how well the thing will stay lit, a sort of optimum flame length. Ok, back to the workshop 😉

    IanB
    Free Member

    As Titanium is a poor conductor, this possibly explains why the decagon needs the little pips on the top to raise the pan up, and the Whitebox being a thicker alloy material (better heat conductor) doesn’t. The thin nature of the pop can stove may also be a limiting factor in the stove staying alight with the pan placed on top.

    flatfish
    Free Member

    Ok, back to the workshop

    Is that for another brew or in the intrest of science?

    99percentchimp
    Free Member

    MYOG Foil wind shield contruction ideas

    IanB – thought this might give you some ideas for your Caldera Cone… out with the rolling pin! Nice counterpoint to the use of CAD 😉

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    Right then, just knocked a stove up but used a can bottom and a can top rather than 2 bottoms. Once bloomed you can sit a pan on top and it doesn’t go out, however the flames do die down a little. I’ll file some small air grooves in the top edge (that’s why I used a top, so I’d have a solid edge to work with) and see if that makes a difference … back to the kettle, sorry I mean workshop.

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    I think we can safely say that combustion takes place outside the stove.

    The air grooves act as secondry jets when the pan is directly on top of the stove. It would seem that the deciding factor in whether your stove goes out with a pan directly on top, is more to do with the angle and location of the jets.

    Well that’s most of a morning wasted, so I’ll go and do something more productive now 😀

    pedalhead
    Free Member

    you’re doing the science of bikepacking a great service, well done 🙂

    IanB
    Free Member

    I’ll go and do something more productive now

    Have another cup of tea? 😉

    Looking at the WRT blog and your most recent stove, I note they don’t have an internal sleeve like the Whitebox and some other home made stoves I’ve seen. I wonder if this is necessary to allow you to put the stove direct on top of the burner?

    As I see it, once the stove and all the fuel is up to temparature sufficient to ignite meths (80 degrees Celsius), with a twin walled stove the centre is storing heat and pressure is created by virtue of it being sealed at the top by the pan. The increased pressure forces the fuel into the outer chamber by two small holes at the base of the inner chamber. From there, the only exit is out through the jets, so you have meths gas at >80 degrees C meeting air and bingo, combustion. Once it’s going, the heat generated by the whole system is sufficient to keep it going until it runs out of fuel.

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    Look again Ian … they have an internal sleeve. The first picture in part 2 shows the sleeve marked out for cutting 😉

    IanB
    Free Member

    OK, right I see now 😳

    How about reducing the size and/or number of notches in the bottom of the sleeve to increase the pressure a bit. You could make the jet holes smaller? Do you apply any sealant to the top of the sleeve, where it engages in the inside edge of the top piece?

    Damn it, I’ve got two perfectly good stoves in my collection which I have trouble deciding which to use anyway. Now you’re making want to go to the garage and make one of my own!

    supersessions9-2
    Free Member

    Been reading all this thread with huge amount of interest. Sadly won’t make it to this years WRT, but fired up to do some lightweight bike-biviing and stove building.

    How does a caldera type stove with solid fuel compare to the meths stove?

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    I don’t think altering the number or size of the feed holes will have much effect, I’m pretty sure the pressure between the inner and outer chambers will equal itself out. Saying that though … I can see that smaller feed holes could be a benefit as you get towards the end of the fuel, as a smaller hole will be below the fuel level for longer which might help maintain a higher internal pressure in the outer chamber towards the end of the burn. 😯

    I suppose the obvious way to increase internal pressure would be to reduce the internal size of the stove and/ or use more fuel (which would reduce the internal size) … obviously the pressure would start to drop as the fuel was used. The other option as you say, is smaller jets … restrict the gas getting out and the internal pressure must increase.

    flatfish
    Free Member

    I’d say the latter, make the jets smaller.

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    I shall make one with tiny jets and compare boil times. I’d be interested to see if it has a negative effect on output (smaller flames) or will the (hopefully) increase in pressure produce a hotter/more intense flame?

    EDIT: Supersessions, I haven’t played around with solid fuel since I was a kid (smaller kid) but I’ve got an idea for a duel fuel burner so I’ll give it another go … I’m expecting it to be very slow though 😉

    IanB
    Free Member

    How does a caldera type stove with solid fuel compare to the meths stove?

    Worth reading the article behind 99percentchimp’s link above – implication there is they are very comparable. Not used it myself, but if you fancy doing some tests, it’d be good to hear your findings 😀

    Bigface0_0
    Free Member

    Thinking about stoves, which one would you go for?
    A. http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/blaze-titanium-stove-p158215
    B. http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/msr-pocket-rocket-camping-stove-p118336

    Also what size gas do you think would be best, I guess the small one but how long would that one last for??

    slugwash
    Free Member

    Thinking about stoves, which one would you go for?

    I’ve got one of these. Brilliant, does the job and got it for a tenner at T K Maxx.

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Gelert+Blaze+PZ+Micro+Folding+Gas+Stove+&hl=en&tbs=shop%3A1&aq=f

    Small canisters are easy to hide in your Mytimug thingy but they’re less economical and you end up either running out of gas or collecting a load of 3/4 empty cartridges. Go to a hardware store and get a bag of the ones on the right in photo below. 175ml and almost half the price of the 100ml one on the left….

    Post # 500 🙂

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    When those stoves were first released (under a different, high end name) they were £60 😉

    Only issue I’ve ever had was the threads been a little tight when used with certain gas canisters … but if someone was going to get a dodgy one it’d be me!

    Bigface0_0
    Free Member

    Congrats on #500

    Cheers for the tip, I’ll pop to the hardware shop and check these out

    valleydaddy
    Free Member

    my gosh we have been busy bees tonight 😀

    I saw the blaze in Go outdoors and looks really good but there’s this one at half the price too

    http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/intensity-gas-stove-p158213

    not ti but really small and comes with a orange packing box.

    Ambrose
    Full Member

    Re: Burners.

    For combustion to occur three things are needed, a fuel, oxygen and heat.

    Combustion happens outside of the unit, where oxygen is present.

    Taking a Trangia burner as a start.

    The Trangia unit has what is essentially a double walled construction, with a well of fuel in the centre of the cylinder. The liquid fuel is free to flow by gravity into, and by capillarity up the void between the double walls. This void is packed IIRC with rockwool or similar, to act as a wick. The rim at the top of the double wall is perforated with a series of holes which act as jets. It is in the vicinity of these that the fuel burns.

    Trangia recommend that the burner unit is not filled to the brim. The well of fuel is lit and this flame begins to heat the pan above it. More importantly, it heats the metal of the unit and makes the fuel inside the double wall to vaporise. This causes a huge increase in volume as the fuel boils, so the gas vents via the perforations. There is usually (until the burner has run out of liquid fuel) sufficient liquid in the burner to form a sufficient seal to prevent the vaporised meths from escaping downwards into the fuel well. As the vaporised fuel leaves the vents (so angled as to provide a broad heating area) it comes into contact with oxygen and is then able to ignite. It does not all ignite instantly so it is necessary to leave a space between the vent and the pan surface to allow sufficient oxygen to combine with the fuel. I believe that there is a design flaw with the Trangia unit in this respect- they often soot up the pans, indicating that incomplete combustion has occurred and carbon is deposited on the pan. I think that finer bore vents might help here, with the trade off of more frequent cleaning.

    Associated with all of this is the fuel used. I’ve met people who ‘cut’ their meths with 40- 50% water to avoid smutting up. Likewise I have had almost soot free pans in Iceland burning the ‘brenstoff’ fuel available there. And it was amazingly cheap too; way cheaper than meths is in the UK.

    Moving on to the Pop can burners.

    They are IMHO often a poor second best to the Trangia unit. No sealing lid, no supporting lip, no ease of refilling. However, they have their place, not least the fun and satisfaction of building them and then using the fruits of one’s labour to cook with ?

    Packing with Rockwool/ fibreglass to act as a wick helps. Pre- heating helps too. I think the lack of a central liquid filled (and thus air-tight) well to ensure a pressure differential may detract further from their performance.

    Using a Caldera cone.

    I’ve never used one but I am keen to try one out- can a jpeg be posted up somewhere? I like the idea behind it, it seems sound to me provided that sufficient oxygen is available easily enough so that incomplete combustion does not happen.

    Additionally, I’m a great believer in the ‘low impact’, ‘take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints’ approach. I prefer not to leave any sign of my passing at all. Cookers can and often do scorch the ground. Care needs to be taken not to allow this to happen, including placing hot objects onto the grass. The scorch marks remain for weeks or more showing where the grass has been killed ?

    Bigface0_0
    Free Member

    Dont think you can go wrong with the ‘Hi gear’ stoves they look great. Go outdoor here we come again tomorrow, the wife will be happy….

    druidh
    Free Member

    That Hi Gear stove is a duplicate of the very highly regarded MSR Pocket Rocket, so should be the business.

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    Exactly what we’ve been saying all day Ambrose 😉

    I have to say though, I can boil half a litre of water on a can stove faster than a Trangia burner. In my mind a can stove is just a cheap Trangia, granted you don’t have the wool to act as a wick and there’s no sealing lid but otherwise I can’t really see much difference.

    valleydaddy
    Free Member

    I was impressed with Steve’s petrol stove though it was an impressive display of flame 😯

    Maybe we could amuse ourselves on the next trip with a “first to a cuppa” competition using the stove of choice???

    flatfish
    Free Member

    I’ll bring the jetboil then. 😐

    valleydaddy
    Free Member

    haha good weapon choice.

    I fancy one of those for making a brew on my daily travels.

    flatfish
    Free Member

    Haven’t used my jetboil in nearly a year now. very one trick pony, IMO.

    valleydaddy
    Free Member

    I’ve heard that from other users but if you just want to make a brew on the move maybe its perfect.

    Want to sell yours to a travelling salesman or trade some forceps for lock picking???

    johnikgriff
    Free Member

    Just spent the last 3 hours reading this, once you start following links and getting involed in them….. Great read (not sure my wife thinks so).

    valleydaddy
    Free Member

    the problem is John we go off on tangents for pages and then repeat a few things, winge a bit, post some pics and plan some trips – brilliant 😀

    Anthony
    Free Member

    For a very rough guide, my Esbit 14g solid fuel blocks burn for the same amount of time as 15mls of meths. However the meths will bring 500mls of water to a good rolling boil where as the solid fuel wont.

    stills8tannorm
    Free Member

    Anthony, what sort of burner are you using with the solid fuel blocks?

    pedalhead
    Free Member

    anyone used one of these Clikstands? http://www.clikstand.com/specs_cs2.html

    jamest
    Free Member

    I have been using my bush buddy wood burner stove with good results. I gather a fist full of pencil sized twigs towards the end of the days travel and use a few strips of hammaro card to get it started. It even worked well on a wet winter bivy last Friday. It takes a bit longer than gas but will reach a rolling boil quickly , plus you are having a mini fire which is always good! I sometimes carry a Ti meths burner as back up.

    Bigface0_0
    Free Member

    After an other enjoyable trip to ‘Go outdoors’ I made the following purchase… 😀


    The stove looks the same the MSR pocket rocket but for £10.99 you cant go wrong.. Also a mate gave me this little chap as well

    slugwash
    Free Member

    After an other enjoyable trip to ‘Go outdoors’ I made the following purchase…

    Looks like a bargain.

    What’cha rustling up for supper this evening then 😉

Viewing 40 posts - 481 through 520 (of 2,851 total)

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