[Closed] Show me your Long Travel Hard Tail Builds please... It's friday after all

long travel, hard tail =

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Isn't that rigid rather than hardtail (or is rigid just a sub-set of hardtail)?

Anyway here's mine although it's not particularily long-travel at the moment as I've recently switched it from Talas to Float 100's:

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he he he. It is a rigid (with a hard tail) that obviously goes for long travels with all the panniers etc.
Nice soul.

Does 160mm count as long travel these days? (bike thankfully gone, now, it were awful!)

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/gingerfox/4061240149/in/set-72157604834266197/

I tried a Pace 303 with RC40 XCAM's but it didn't work. Or put another way I didnt get it.

Short travel HT I do understand (and enjoy) and Long travel Full sus I understand (and enjoy)

But what I cant figure out is how having a front end capable of a 20 foot drop off, and rear incapable of taking a direct blow from a 3" kerb, is suppoosed to be good at anything.

from a climbing sprint POV the HT is great but the front end is to high even on RC40's dropped to 100mm and on the down hills even a cheapo FSR XC would be quicker!

I just dont get it, I know all bikes are a compromise, but long Travel HT? thats just a step backwards.

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i like the qwerty bike! ?

lol fotorat something about your post made me chuckle, competely disagree with you thopugh im afraid.

my lt ht is in the post...

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finally finished this last night with a nice bottle or 2 of Ale, just waiting for a full Ti seat collar to arrive (if it gets through customs)

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currenly waiting for a shorter stem from mr.postman
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Sorry about the quality for the pic (camera phone), but the bike is fabulous!

Ok "calls your bluff" please list the MTBing situations where LT/HT is wins over LT/FS or anyhting else.

Come on, enlighten me, I am open for persuasion, so long as now tells me that Pace 303 with XCAM's is anygood, cos they are usless.

i used to think that fotorat but ive now changed my mind 😉

Foroat

Now LT HT, just means you have to use your legs more as rear suspension while the forks take up most of the front... quite simple, just a different riding style. The bike is lighter, easier to maintain, costs less to maintain, cheaper to buy, is stiffer, easier to set up, will survive in bad weather better than a FS and will have better pedaling efficiency.. need more ? 🙂

and I have seen a lot at cwm carn DH on hardtails keeping up with LT FS, in fact they were a lot more on the ball and acurate (but then you would need to be as a HT wont forgive any mistakes unlike a FS)

Ok "calls your bluff" please list the MTBing situations where LT/HT is wins over LT/FS or anyhting else.

A LT/HT is cheaper than a LT/FS, so for me it was great while I saved for the FS!

CrAsH...tEsT..RiDeR...wins the best fire-guard award. 🙂

My old Pace 303 with Pikes. That was nice, but too harsh for my old bones.
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Soul was excellent, but too small.
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[i]please list the MTBing situations where LT/HT is wins over LT/FS [/i]

"a quick blast round the local woods" , "ragging it something silly" , "keeping it real" and "riding the trail not the bike" apparently 😉

I have the ONLY fire guard 🙂 do I win a prize?..

trust me I cannot wait to snap some shots on a nice trail and not my front room

so long as now tells me that Pace 303 with XCAM's is anygood, cos they are usless.

Crash test rider's list above pretty much covers it.
I've never got on with FS bikes - ridden a couple and they just feel odd to me. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

But what I cant figure out is how having a front end capable of a 20 foot drop off, and rear incapable of taking a direct blow from a 3" kerb, is suppoosed to be good at anything.

It's not really about whether its the best tool for the job - sometimes its just the most fun tool for the job. My LTHT only gets used for downhill, though I also have a downhill bike. Which doesn't really make sense, but sometimes you just want to keep it real, yo.

I do agree on the huge travel part being a bit silly. I seem to have settled on lyriks at 140mm - though the frame is technically capable of much bigger forks it feels nicer with a bit less travel.

and I have seen a lot at cwm carn DH on hardtails keeping up with LT FS, in fact they were a lot more on the ball and acurate (

And i've seen rigid riders keeping up and beating LT HT riders 🙂

Sounds like singeltrackworld marketing BS to me 🙂

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Pace 'n' Pikes. 😀

Oh, and qwerty's is brill. 8)

Oh I have.... in fact one of them was my mate Ant, he was on his DMR with 120 forks down cwm carn, he was at the front of the group! seen quite a few down there flying on a HT, but they were very skilled unlike a lot of the 8" FS riders just ploughing through and letting the bike do the work

its about smooth riding and using your body more than relying on the bike. Im not saying it is better etc etc and as you know I have had DH bikes, me personally I could not keep up with a FS as I dont have the skill, and I would only ever be fast on a full DH bike as it makes up for my lack of skill so can plow through stuff! but a good rider on a HT can keep up with a FS.. just take a look at a lot of 4x riders, very smooth, very fast and pull huge jumps.. it does take a skilled rider though

Anyhow each to their own, i think every bike has its place and all bikes can do any job, some better than others... FS you pay the price upfront and for maintenance, HT you have lower costs, they both do the job; some like one and not the other, and vice versa, but they are both bikes at the end of the day.. you choose what you like

Bonesetter - How you getting on with the Paradox, still liking it ?

I'm giving serious consideration to getting one myself 😕

CrAsH...tEsT..RiDeR, I've just noticed that this whole tread is a sneaky way of you saying 'look at my shiny new bike' without actually saying 'look at my shiny new bike', very subtle 😆

ps, it is a very nice shiny new bike.

true but I also wanted to see other set ups, I have never build a LT HT... so a 1st for me, always done DH bikes and 6" FS bikes, or a 100mm HT. Venturing into LT HT is a big change for me, just hoping I have done it right (colour scheme aside)

What actually counts as long travel these days? Anything over 100mm?

Justification for a LT HT?

Mine is my DH bike, I used to have a more expensive, heavier, “proper” bouncy DH bike but I couldn’t justify it to myself let alone the missus, didn’t have the skill talent or strength to haul it around corners, didn’t really have the money to keep it running as well as my other bikes and it didn’t get the use it should have really I actually find the LT HT easier to ride in some ways obviously a big rock garden is where it runs out of answers and you do get more tired simply because you are doing more work…
Long travel FS is for proper DH riding/racing or IT consultants to spank over and that’s about it really, why bother with it otherwise?

Plus riding a HT Downhill makes you more of a Man; Fact!

I have a shorter travel (4”) HT for everything else not sure I’d want more travel (front or back) for all day/trail rides…

Horses for courses…

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Ok then why is it in every race I do:

Kona Cheddar
Kona Bristol
are you tough enough
Honc
ect

I always get stuck behind some numpty on a HT in singletrack sections, they have to pick thier way through the rocks and roots and I can simply pile straight through.

How can being slower than your mates be any fun?

yes LT/HT is cheaper and less mainentance that Full S, but thats got nothing to do with the ride.

there is no way a skilled rider would be faster downhill or over the rough stuff with as much control and poise on HT than FS, I think the problem here might be the cost of decent FS bikes. lord know you have to be in the 4000-5000 bracket nowadays to get UST as standard. and yes getting them set up right takes hours.

But for me FS is to HT like SPD is flatties or FS is to the flex stem.

Come on chaps in 2010 not 1990!

oooh that curtis is nice.. which is it?

I also started this thread as a mate is selling his nomad for a LT HT (I put a thread up a while back to see what frames he should consider ) so was hoping to get some ideas for him.. he is looking at Cotic Bfe, Dialled, and a lot of others. Always good to get more ideas and see what set ups people have

Oh and how can spds be a step above flats? most DH pros use flats no issue, easier to get the foot out and rail, dab instead of a wipe out, you can lean the bike over further... flats just mean you need better bike control to stay on them, however it is damn funny seeing an SPD user try DH on flats... instant superman attemps. Ok SPDs on a short travel XC bike fine for more pedaling efficiency, however on long travel where you are jumping, or going DH flats are simply better. Proofs in the pudding, anyone use spds at worlds DH or at crankworks? not many

fotorat tee hee trolltastic. 😆

I'd be quicker on a fs but still seem to get held up by lot of dh fs going downhill on my lt ht, perhaps your faster than all of us on here 😉

anyone use spds at worlds DH

erm.... Steve Peat ?

It's a Freeride - recently sold to a bod on here so no doubt will pop up soon having been refreshed. Rode beautifully with a surprising amount of back end compliance - absolutley spot on for natural singletrack and was never out of its depth until things started to really point down when it's 71 degrees HA started to show.

anyone use spds at worlds DH or at crankworks? not many

WC DH, probably 40-50% of the field I’d have thought, Crankworks is a totally different kettle of fish, flippy, jumpy teenagers don’t need any pedals they seem to all use psychokinetic abilities to control their bikes…

Chumba HX1

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let me phrase it again, all the Dh pros and all the freeride stars, how many use SPD's? 10%-20% perhaps? how many use SPDs on the XC scene? perhaps 95% personally I dont care what people use, but they are not a step back.. now take spd's away from a rider and givem them flats.. a lot will loose their footing, slip or esp when jumping.. crash, so SPD's dont teach you bike control (staying with the bike naturally), you are just anchored there which is fine for XC.. now whats the lose with flats? you loose pedaling efficiency.. nothing else, hardly an issue on a DH track. I have only really ridden with those into DH and freeridy stuff... never was into XC. only 2 use spds, even on uplifts the odd 1 once in a while... but hey im not saying which is best, just trying to say they are not a step back! the majority of DH and freeriders use flats for a reason.

Anyhow show us your LT Ht's 😉

@fotorat

Why ride a full sus? I mean, an MX bike is a lot less tiring and also faster...

I ride a bike to have fun, not to prove a point about being best or fastest.

What on earth is there on the Bristol 12 course that requires even lifting your bum off the saddle, let alone FS? A discarded energy gel wrapper? A twig? My amusingly over-forked Marin is overkill round here.

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Thats the other reason for riding a HT... if your trails are tame it makes them more challenging!

anyone got a Cotic Bfe built up, or a simple with longish forks?

in transalp mode; note the SPDs. with hindsight i think i'd ride with flats net time if taking the Alpine. pedalling efficiency doesn't bother me all too much on the ups. i'm a slow, slog-it-out ****er on climbs. although, contrary to what i've just said the SPD's do mean you needn't concentrate so much on the long downs, but there were/are a fewe trails that i'm happier riding with flats.

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and in general-messing-around mode:

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i've ridden a variety of FS and can't say i've ever really taken to them (with the exception of the liteville 301). i don't like the brake-jacking; the bouncy, undirect feeling; faffing with set ups; and the fact that i needn't think too much and just ride regardless of good line choice.

@ fotorat, assuing you're not trolling then give it another go, but ride with your weight forward over the fork. unlike a FS where the bike does the soaking up for you, you need to ride over the front giving your legs more space to move.

there are a lot of riders out there riding FS and it is clear that they little idea of good handling skills as they rely on technology to get them over/out of tough spots.

how do you find the alpine? and what’s the max length fork? my mate is after a LT HT and was hoping to use his 36's.. that said I think he would change forks for the right HT .. he is a ragger and loves DH and jumping. There are a few nice one on here that may suit the bill frame wise.

by the way despite my comments on FS, I used to have a demo 8 and a commencal furious + others, my skills were not great but I managed to hammer through the black run at Cwm Carn as the bike did all the work for me... I was happy doing step ups and jumps but I was just a passenger relying on technology, it was very good fun but ultimately I did not learn to ride properly, which is my hope that the HT will teach me to learn some skills.

I've owned a few really nice sussers in my time from Foes to Nicolai, and they were really a lot of fun, but now I just have a Chameleon with a 140mm fork on it. Now, I daresay that I'm a smidge slower on that than I was on the sussers, but f**t it, I'm not racing so who gives a shit? Any anyway riding a HT "feels" faster. Also a LT HT means I can do most things reasonably well with just one bike.

In the vast majority of situations not having rear suspension is not actually that much of a disadvantage. My bike's lighter, I don't have to mess about with all those bearings and pivots, and the cost of looking after another shock, and slinging it downhill, I don't really care what the back wheel is doing anyway.

Granted it's not for everyone, but if you know how to handle a bike, it's certainly not a backwards step.

My old Metalhead, I still have this frame in the loft. Is this even considered long travel anymore?

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I think you'll find the pro's race mostly with SPDs, only one or two at the top (Sam Hill, eg) use flats, simply for extra pedalling power. Freeride is totally different though!

the kind of skill I was on about refered to riding like this link, now that is full control and handling at its best... even on a DH bike I wouldnt like to try and compete with that.

going as large as a lot on 8" full sussers, smooth and fast, as for this one.. well

just shows a HT can be ridden just as hard, you just need the ability... but I dont 🙂

I think you'll find short travel HT are the next big thing. I tried a LT HT and found the the bike did all the work for me... I was happy doing step ups and jumps but I was just a passenger relying on technology, it was very good fun but ultimately I did not learn to ride properly, which is my hope that the ST HT will teach me to learn some skills.

And this is a fine example i'm sure you'll agree...

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😉

fotorat- some serious trolage going on there.

I always get stuck behind some numpty on a HT in singletrack sections, they have to pick thier way through the rocks and roots and I can simply pile straight through.

That just means they haven't got the skillz to pay the bills.

Good rider on HT > bad rider on full sus. Add to this the fact that riding a HT makes you a better person and its a winner.

i guess mark even a ridid SS would be relying on technology? you could try running? no bike = no tech 🙂

all I am saying is: In the right hands a HT is just as good as a full sus, not my hands I admit!

Mark the brake should be on the front, relying on rear wheel skidding is not ideal braking 🙂

go on then...
wound down..
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wound out...
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rides best inbetween the two at 120mm tbh, needs some love at the minute, or maybe a more careful rider 😛

Mark the brake should be on the front, relying on rear wheel skidding is not ideal braking

Rear brake is needed for manuals though unless slamming onto your backside, almost certainly in front of a bus stop full of giggling women, is your bag of fun!

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alpin, that stem....just....no!!!!

and i love alpines too....

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my Ti 456. simply sublime and I cannae wait to take it around GT next month 🙂

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Jeez, next you'll be trying to tell us singlespeeding is wrong. I love my 456 and I couldn't have got as good a full suss for the same price. As others have said you just need to learn how to ride it.

Here's two:

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Alpin's Dialled Alpine is waaaay out in front IMO

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dont know if its 'long' travel but its 130mm

Bfe with big forks?
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It's now got Lyrics on and rocks even more.

As to why - fun, simply. This is my jump/FR/****ing about bike and it's just more involving to ride than my Turner.

Where a LT hard tail will crap all over a fullsus of equivalent travel is in really tight, steep technical conditions. Shorter wheelbase, more responsive, less soggy, lighter. Go and ride with Ash from Trail Addiction, and you might understand...

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slowrider - Member

alpin, that stem....just....no!!!!

and i love alpines too....

what do you know???!!!

Syntace VRO. cool system. looks better from the front, i'll give you that. surprising how much difference it makes on long, 3 hour, slogs on the ups.

beagle - Member

Alpin's Dialled Alpine is waaaay out in front IMO

beagle, i love you...... and IMO everything you say from now on is gospel.

CTR - it rides like bike. 160mm is supposed to be the ma and i don't think i'd have anything longer on there without running lots of sag.
the Lyriks are over-pumped; when just sitting/riding along there is only about 10mm sag but on the downs - when my weight is over the front - they sit at ~30mm sag. top bicycle. i did think about selling it after riding my 'old' Sanderson for over a month. i liked the longer top tube of the Sanderson for XC rides but for the sort of riding i enjoy the most, the Alpine is spot on. no real point in having two bikes that do the same thing.

Where a LT hard tail will crap all over a fullsus of equivalent travel is in really tight, steep technical conditions. Shorter wheelbase, more responsive, less soggy, lighter.

yup, and exactly the sort of riding i enjoy!

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lol alpin, what do i know? i know your stem is gopping! it reminds me of the adjustable stem on my sons trailer bike.

the rest of it nice though, loving the 70's pimp purple/gold combo.

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Is 140mm long travel?

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Is 140mm long travel?

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that curtis is stunning, and i'm also liking the alpines alot!
in the market for a LTHT, think i've just found 2 more contenders 😉

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if 140mm-ish counts as long travel?

At last..some DMR!!

Love the Trailstars. I had an older short travel APS version but it cracked at the headtube. So I bought this s/h LT version with reinforced HT 🙂

Almost got a Blender but Trailstars seem a bit more versatile.

HT vs FS

It's not unlike boarding vs skiing. Skiing is better is every way: faster, manoeuvrable, on flats etc. But the simplicity and directness of boarding wins me over every time.

Bikes? I have and love both. The FS comes into its own on rougher trails.

Great thread - I'm looking for exactly this type of bike, but too much choice! Normally ride an 07 Enduro SL, FS. Quite a 'long' bike, but I love it and it suits my *cough* heavier frame. Have a craving for a similar 'style' (burly?) HT, get back some skills etc. Not having much knowledge, had been looking at Orange Crush - maybe P7, but obviously much more out there. Any suggestions for a good buy? Prefer ready built, and prefer way under a grand....