[Closed] Should Theresa May resign?

a Corbyn / McDonnell IRA/Sinn Fein sympathising government

😆

Utterly lost all sense of perspective since election night when his predicted wet dream of a "150 majority" went up in smoke.

In your world view everyone agrees with the May vision of Brexit. The problem is it no longer includes the chancellor or the Head of the B of E

We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit

Long live the May/Foster/UDA love in(by love in i really mean extortion racket)! 😆

jambalaya - Member
DUP confirmed they will vote for the Queens Speech with or without a deal. They are 100% committed to

Problem is that buys may 10 minutes. She needs them onside onnevery issue along with the entire party including the Scottish Conservatives.

At the first sniff of dissent everyone else will oppose. How many votes can she loose before no confidence is called? If she can't pass legislation and scrape through what good is she?

Anyway I'm sure they studied mays brexit puff piece of contradiction from the papers but I reckon they want an orange white and blue one.

What NI needs is a an even hand from the mainland which means being able to talk to and listen to both sides.

Mike, the day after the election I posted that May would be totally dependant on 100% support from all tory MPs and the DUP to pass any legislation and that would probably require the imposition of three line whips for tory MPs on every vote as a matter of course which is clearly impractical.
When the DUP have what they want their support will be guaranteed but May will be unable to control some of her own party.
This is a mess but we ain't seen nothin' yet.

Indeed frank. It's going to be a mess. An embarrassing mess while we're going through some kinda important breakfast meetings in Brussels.

I'd also add that over the last few days, you can infer from the various speeches by Hammond etc that her authority is gone. She's just being kept in No. 10 under house arrest by her own party while they figure out who gets the job next.

You know you never really get the impact until you experience it. Mrs K is carrying an ACL injury with private surgery scheduled for October. ~She went over on her leg at the weekend and its swollen massively, still after 2 days. Our local A&E was shut down last year and turned into an "Urgent Care centre".

So off she went, and after an initial inspection she was suggested the she employ RICE and revert to a private consultant. "But" she argued, "Aren't you going to ask someone to do a further examination?" The direct answer was given - that there was no further qualified staff to see her in the building, and that as it's clearly not a break they would not waste money on an X ray. But the chap did write a letter of recommendation to the private consultant.

It's the clearest experience of the NHS cuts I've experienced and to have a medical facility effectively turn you away to lack of staff with skills and cost saving as the excuse brings it right to state of bleedin' obvious. I'm lucky my work enables family private care, there's many that don't have it.

Add to that the low key compromised queens speech today and I'm feeling like a very exposed, leaderless weak Brit at the moment in a country with a paper thin framework.

So there is a queen's speech, but still no deal with the DUP?
(Even tho Maybot said a week ago there was)

How can we expect these clowns to get a deal with the EU when they can't even get their chums in the anti-gay/evolution/women's rights/science gang to sign up with them !?

It's not a coalition of chaos, it's just a Chaos- new collective noun for Tories

I really hope the Day of Rage protests planned for today doesn't kick off.

I really hope the Day of Rage protests planned for today doesn't kick off

It was the only way the Poll Tax was killed off.

So there is a queen's speech, but still no deal with the DUP?

I thought there were legals that said if this was not the case, the opposition automatically takes charge?

I think the idea that riots was the only reason the poll tax was scrapped is a bit incorrect.

It will be interesting to follow the debate on the Queen's Speech I think. Does anyone know why it's a dress down day for Her Maj rather than full robes this time? A sign she can't really be bothered?

[quote=Kryton57 ]I thought there were legals that said if this was not the case, the opposition automatically takes charge?

If she loses the vote on the Queen's speech (or any one of multiple votes on it). The DUP are currently saying they will vote for it whether or not there is a formal deal - though I have to wonder if they plan to play brinksmanship.

Does anyone know why it's a dress down day for Her Maj rather than full robes this time? A sign she can't really be bothered?

She could offer soft brexit or a second vote.

If the lib dems were really committed to staying in Europe they could 'take one for the team' and make a second referendum a condition in the Queens speech.

Ha ha! No one can stay leader of the Conservative party now if they offer a vote on the deal, they'll be replaced immediately. The quickest way for May to lose grip is to look to be backsliding, or open to letting the people decide to Remain when the reality of Leaving is starting to become clear.

Kryton57 - Member
So there is a queen's speech, but still no deal with the DUP?
I thought there were legals that said if this was not the case, the opposition automatically takes charge?

The DUP will vote through the queens speech I imagine. I'd take a guess that all that's happening here is they are giving the tories and early lesson on brinkmanship and letting them (and the country) know who's in charge.

racer - Member
though I have to wonder if they plan to play brinksmanship.

Snap, just read that. That's exactly their game. It's gonny be great! 😆

The thing is, the Conservatives have to keep May in No 10 right now for a number of reasons. Firstly, if there's a leadership challenge then the party will break into factions, which will ultimately mean that nothing gets done in parliament and could force the dreaded vote of no confidence triggering another GE, which the Conservatives will either likely lose, or will suffer the loss of yet more seats, further weakening their hand.

Also, the clock is ticking on Brexit.

there's loads of tories starting to share their own opinions or atleast look like they have their own opinion, so I think maneuvers have already started on the leadership front, just a case of waiting on timing would be my guess.

are they actually keeping TM in chains now?
[img] [/img]

is that guy behind her holding onto the lead?

She looks very, very tired.

omnishambles

Interesting point from John mCdonnel reported by the guardian: The conservatives have materially altered their intentions (as put down in queens speech) compared to their manifesto with which they campained. Therefore actually they don't have a mandate at all, neglectin whether they manage to do a deal with the DUP.

Personally I think the other parties should jsut let the conservatives get on with it and use the very slim and shaky majority (assuming a deal) to temper an hard right policies and moderate the brexit plans. However its certianly interesting to watc it a ll play out. Bets on this being a part of the core curriculum for politics / history in the next 50 years 😆

Bets on this being a part of the core curriculum for politics / history in the next 50 years

The Weak & Wobbly Parliament?

Weak and Wobblybotism! 😆

t. Bets on this being a part of the core curriculum for politics / history in the next 50 years

third century crisis of the british empire

'The end of the [u]United[/u] Kingdom' ?

what price power

about 2bn actually..

DUP asking for one billion extra for NHS and one billion extra for infrastructure report colleagues at @BBCnireland

When the queen had to read "best possible deal" I was hoping she was going to just throw the thing on the floor.

Anyone else think May looked very, very ill in palour? Her Majesty wasn't all that either and it did strike me that she didn't appear to really have any belief in what she was reading.

Generic stuff, need to see the detail.

The BBC just gave their verdict on the speech:

[img] [/img]

DUP asking for one billion extra for NHS and one billion extra for infrastructure report colleagues at @BBCnireland

That's an awful lot of wood pellets.

kilo - Member
That's an awful lot of wood pellets.

[img] [/img]

Arlene Foster has the look of a portly 1980's 2nd division footballer, I just can't remember which one....

edit - Andy Payton mibbe?

[img] http://image.wikifoundry.com/image/3/rXTzwJ9IYKWIZCsBRK4DEw314157/GW418H549 [/img]

Paul Merton is suing

God, you're right, Mrs Merton!

[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7_X6EUGjOioLz0ac-zrzZTGWXPGNBf2-PLIBbzfV3QcmLxgul [/img]

Apologies to Peter Beardsley

so would the Barnet formula apply

if NI gets 2bn extra

the england should get an extra 40.4bn

wales 3.2bn

scotland 5.6bn

.... no wonder the Tories didnt want costings in their manifesto!

Queens speech mostly about Brexit. For ****'s sake can't anyone see that if we held a second referendum the result would be 'remain'?

Still, the great (hah) British public must be allowed to press the self-destruct button if that's what they want. 🙄

Totally out of context, but quoting Enoch Powell:

It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

What a shower of shit.

can't anyone see that if we held a second referendum the result would be 'remain'?

Enoch actually meant, It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancées whom they have never seen

Kimbers - I think thats the sticking point for the tories, DUP want to lower corporation tax and abolish airport tax. The SNP would like to reduce corporation tax - and yes - Barnet would be out of the window - fury from the scots tories who made a big thing of Barnett

Mitsuimonkey - thats what the polls say.

I didn't know about how membership of the EU has forced the UK to permit unmarried persons into the country to marry Mitsu - do you have a source I can have a look at please?

Enoch actually meant, It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancées whom they have never seen

Hence me deliberately taking that bit out of context to reverse a hard-right speech for amusing* effect.

FFS.

*Up to the individual reader.

To pretend that Brexit isn't a terrible mistake that a lot of people who voted leave now regret is wishful thinking.

Still, the Brexies will get what they deserve - a bonfire of employment legislation and being generally ****ed over by the super-rich.

Well done!

Still, the Brexies will get what they deserve - a bonfire of employment legislation and being generally **** over by the super-rich.

Isle of Wight. Might need to stack them two deep.

If you didn't catch Boris Johnson with [url= https://clyp.it/1ps2zyal ]Eddie Mair today[/url], you should really give it a listen. The final question - what is the point of this prime minister - is awesome.

Where are these polls TJ?

mitsumonkey - Member

Got any evidence of this dannyh?

Jamba said so. No really!

Jamba said so. No really!

CITE 😉

The final question - what is the point of this prime minister - is awesome

The blustering response was quite damning...

I was watching the opening parliamentary speeches there, interesting enough, Corbyn is like a different beast! 😆 As was may mind, and I did get a sense that there does need to be a consideration of all views now is a fairly common view. We'll see how long that lasts mind you, but encouraging almost conciliatory start, there was almost a few olive branches in there, I'll no hold my breath mind once hostilites start for real! 😆

Another point, why don't we make it that when there's a hung parliament, both largest parties need to go into coalition and work together and compromise(the clear wish of a divided country imo)? Seems to me the sensible, democratic option.

One problem Joe - our two leading parties offered very different views of the future and the public didn't really like either. Ok they disliked the other options even more but that's another story.

So you are proposing a coalition of failure - it has novelty value I guess. 😉 Not sure it s a runner though.

Wee nippy has been rather quite, what's news from your side of the border?

not sure you can call 40% ish vote each not liking them but yes the views are such opposites [ with in the narrow hegemony] that its a complete non starter.

Wow Johnson really can't even vaguely be bothered to stick up for May, Mair raised some very good points about the complete inadequacy of the Government to address real problems in the country and Johnson had nothing.

teamhurtmore - Member
One problem Joe - our two leading parties offered very different views of the future and the public didn't really like either. Ok they disliked the other options even more but that's another story.

So you are proposing a coalition of failure - it has novelty value I guess. Not sure it s a runner though.

Wee nippy has been rather quite, what's news from your side of the border?

I don't really see how one party dictating a half arsed manifesto is the better option my self. Find common ground and build from there is the correct way imo, I agree unlikely once the guns start, but i live in hope..

I guess we could always go with your much loved Libertarian values and replace the current vacuum with, well, more of a vacuum. (Anarchism, anyone? 😆 ) Explain to me how your almost invisible idea of government would work?

No news at all really, though, can't say I've been paying attention to Holyrood just now, Westminster is way too entertaining! But all very quiet to be honest, media wise. I think Dugdale is away at the Corbyn re-education camp. Sturgeon's obviously of at the what the hell do i do now camp. 😆 Davidson is lapping it up like a Cheshire cat.(I'm actually curious as to how she handles her 13 MPs and new found power, particularly in relation to brexit and no that she can freely form her own opinions.

Tbh i'm happy enough it's diversified a bit in WM from a Scottish viewpoint, one party rule getting too much of it's own way is a terrible idea. The ref has been kicked into the long grass, which i've been arguing all along as the best optiom. So I guess time to get down to focusing on politics, lets see what that brings.

The show has shifted to Westminster and Brexit for the foreseeable though. The only solution there is to give all the parties and all the regions a voice(including English regions) if this Brexit thing is going to happen. (I don't think it's certain anymore.)

ps in my opinion the SNPs goal has to be to figure out how to get the GERS figures to be favourable(a bit of a can of worms, but they'll ever win without favourable figures) and secondly to understand that they need to embrace and involve the grass roots(either that or they'll quickly desert ye, as she just found out.)

Edit, as for Davidson, I think for the next few years she's clearly in the dominant position, and could actually cement and grow her vote a wee bit if she insisted on a crossparty scottish voice in the brexit talks.

Dugdale, she' do what Corbyn tells her, she really should resign, scottish vote down again(despite many poeple, myself included actually bursting for a reason to vote labour), only reason they got seats was down to a bit of a tory collapse and a slight jump from SNP to tory imo, in loads of seats, he'll even ruggie and hamilton gains 5000 tories(SNP lost 10,000, lab lost 500, which seems fairly indicative I think.)

I got an email from my local Labour candidate, telling us how well he'd done in coming in 3rd and increasing his vote share by 2.8%. But they reduced the SNP vote! I sent him an email back telling him **** off, after 20 years you damn nearly made us a Tory seat again, because all you could talk about was "the SNP must be stopped" and all they had to say was "correct- and Labour can't do it in this seat". And played out nationally, that helped the Tories to 13 seats and government. That's not a pyrrhic victory, it's a pyrrhic 3rd place.

As for the SNP- they said hard brexit = second indy ref. Right now they're still the biggest party in Scotland in both parliaments, a pro-independence majority in the Scottish parliament, and an SNP majority in Westminster seats which the government can't claim. But hard brexit? Nobody knows.

to a bit of a tory collapse

I got an email from my local Labour candidate, telling us how well he'd done in coming in 3rd and increasing his vote share by 2.8%. But they reduced the SNP vote! I sent him an email back telling him **** off, after 20 years you damn nearly made us a Tory seat again, because all you could talk about was "the SNP must be stopped" and all they had to say was "correct- and Labour can't do it in this seat". And played out nationally, that helped the Tories to 13 seats and government. That's not a pyrrhic victory, it's a pyrrhic 3rd place.

As for the SNP- they said hard brexit = second indy ref. Right now they're still the biggest party in Scotland in both parliaments, a pro-independence majority in the Scottish parliament, and an SNP majority in Westminster seats which the government can't claim. But hard brexit? Nobody knows.

They really can't go for a ref now though, utter suicide from a nationalist viewpoint. When the numbers aren't there for a win. Kick it officially till the Briexit dust has settled, 10 years if Brexit goes ahead, 5 years if it doesn't. The finances are crucial though.

As for labour, I really wasn't kidding about the re-education centre, their only hope is to get fully behind Corbyn, if they do, come next election they could see a bit of a resurgence. They really need to realise they aren't just fighting the SNP aswell mind.

Germany currently has a "grand coalition" (the 2 biggest centre right and centre left parties in government together) and has done many times in the past.

Doesn't seem to have hurt them too badly!

If you didn't catch Boris Johnson with Eddie Mair today, you should really give it a listen. The final question - what is the point of this prime minister - is awesome.

I think "car crash" is the phrase we need here.

I wonder if he will get the flak Dianne got from quarters ?

It's ok it's not like he's out foreign secretary or anything 😉

The EU must be crying with laughter as we self-immolate

Kimbers - re your comment about Johnson '.....having nothing'.
That's not a new phenomenon; his journalistic pieces were articulate and well-argued, even if you disagreed with the content or his political leanings.
His life in politics has been entertaining - for him, no doubt - but empty; in live appearances he has been nothing more than a blustering windbag; he is catnip to some of the more rabid tories but any critical examination of his performance, policy development and implementation - other than Boris bikes - would be represented by a blank page.
'Empty vessels make most noise' sums him up.
If he ever has moments of quiet reflection he surely must be thinking......cripes, Bozza how did you become Foreign Sec and how long can you maintain this charade? Support the Supreme Leaderene and your turn may come.

Junkyard - lazarus
I wonder if he will get the flak Dianne got from quarters ?

The EU must be crying with laughter as we self-immolate

He's a good candidate for type 2 diabetes, to be fair

are the tories so desperate they are now playing the dont make me leader game ?

The EU must be crying with laughter as we self-immolate

I suspect anything but. Highly likely Brexit negotiations will continue as "normal", ie same stance as before. We approach the end-game in late 2018 and Davies pulls out the WTO / "no deal" card and either EU crumbles or Tories call another election. Its too late to agree anything with a "new" government and we get a WTO Brexit anyway. Just one scenario but things are much less clear for EU now than they where in April. The EU is well aware A50 timeline is short and they are not certain who they will be dealing with in 6, 12 or 18 months time.

^^^

should we be making a note of that like the 150 majority? 8)

Davies pulls out the WTO / "no deal" card and either EU crumbles or Tories call another election

Where do you start with THIS??

1. No trade deal? Auf weidersen pet! Hari kari has never been a great tactical move - ultimately self defeating!
2. Tory gov in 2018??? 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

This is so sublime you must be fing joking..........
edit: I know I asked you for some fresh stuff.....but please - have mercy! This is just TOO MUCH!!!!

jambalaya - Member
I suspect anything but. Highly likely Brexit negotiations will continue as "normal", ie same stance as before. We approach the end-game in late 2018 and Davies pulls out the WTO / "no deal" card and either EU crumbles or Tories call another election. Its too late to agree anything with a "new" government and we get a WTO Brexit anyway.

Which imo is probably what the EU hope for anyhow, hence their insistance that the final date is the date.

The referendum vote could have been a loaded gun to point at EU with a "reform sensibly or else" message, but only Britain could point it at our own heads instead.

Ten year transition
Back to where we started
Significant upfront cost
Stupidity in the extreme

Worst Haiku ever 😉

Remember that scene in Blazing Saddles when Cleavon Little's sheriff of Rock Ridge is about to be lynched, so he pulls out his gun, points it at his own temple and pretends to hold himself hostage?

That's our sole bargaining chip.

Junkyard - lazarus
Worst Haiku ever