Should Theresa May resign?

So we have one left of centre/anti-austerity (sic) party advocating lowering corporation tax and afraid to raise MRT for high earners (for good reason) and another that favours raising both…..hmmm…..

One in power and one potentially – heaven help us all – could be in power. Or perhaps this reflects the fact that one is showing some sense despite the silly rhetoric and the other a total lack of it. Who knows?

But would be interestng to see the lack of sense option actually being applied, not least to see how people react to the lower wages and high prices that would ensue. Be careful what you wish for….Brexshit should have told folk that…..

The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection of citizen’s rights in the Withdrawal agreement.

Does this mean until everyone currently residing here dies [ or their offspring/spouses] the EU and the court of Justice are the ultimate arbitrators of our law?

Aaand yet Corbyn has a 7pt lead over May now?
And the Tories are so terrified they’d lose an election right now that they are being played like kippers by the DUP ?

…and yet I can’t help but think that Chukka and a sane shadow cabinet would have beaten May by a landslide. (Except there wouldn’t have been an election because she’d never have dared to take them on.)

…and I don’t think the Tories are scared of losing at all. This is a superb time to be in opposition. If Corbyn is the one on 310 seats in the Autumn he’s going to look back on the last two years of nightmare as the good old days! What the tories are scared of is another hung parliament where they’re in the hot seat. And that looks highly likely.

The reality is recent elections shows you win them by selling dreams be it bring back control or tax the rich.

In my view what Corbyn/Trump/Brexit show is that if you think you’re going to lose you can promise Unicorns. In the last elections I can think of all the parties who thought they might win kept it relatively real. (Clinton/Miliband/Cameron)

So we have one left of centre/anti-austerity (sic) party advocating lowering corporation tax and afraid to raise MRT for high earners (for good reason) and another that favours raising both…..hmmm…..

Favours? I’m not so sure. The one who is in power has to openly accept the need for competitive corp tax and competitive MRT for high earners. The one who thinks he’s gonna lose isn’t constrained by reality in his promises.

Does this mean until everyone currently residing here dies [ or their offspring/spouses] the EU and the court of Justice are the ultimate arbitrators of our law?

I interpret that as yes in the context of EU citizens currently living in an EU country that is not thier original country.

I belive it doesn’t make any allowances for British people who might want to move country within the EU after the deal is signed off.

But that’s just how i read it, so those Brits who are already living on the mainland are protected, and those EU citizens living in the UK won’t be left high and dry.

But it makes no allowances for those British who might want to live in another EU country in future.

Again that’s just my interpretation.

I am not sure the brexit voters want the EU to be able to dictate rules* to us for the next 80 years or so.

* that is what they will say

In the last elections I can think of all the parties who thought they might win kept it relatively real.

Cameron and Osborne just argued that we would be in peril [ post the EU] and the only money that stayed safe was my kids piggy bank. It was all they ever said and there was nothing positive about the EU

It might also show that being incredibly pessimistic [ or realistic if you prefer] is not that inspirational
I am not sure we are disagreeing much just emphasising different aspects of the same thing

outofbreath – Member

…and yet I can’t help but think that Chukka and a sane shadow cabinet would have beaten May by a landslide

The Chuka who pulled out of the leadership election because he hadn’t realised that being leader would mean getting lots of press scrutiny? That Chuka?

The Chuka who pulled out of the leadership election because he hadn’t realised that being leader would mean getting lots of press scrutiny? That Chuka?

Yes him, he’d harvest votes hand over fist.

Cameron and Osborne just argued that we would be in peril [ post the EU] and the only money that stayed safe was my kids piggy bank. It was all they ever said and there was nothing positive about the EU

The whole Remain campaign was simply shouting “racist”. That easily lost them the 2pc that mattered.

A better ‘Cameron’ example of what I’m talking about would be the closing days of the 2015 election. Suddenly out of nowhere Cameron promised an unrealistic additional wedge for the NHS, dwarfing what Labour were offering. From the timing I’m pretty sure that was his Unicorn promise. He thought he was going to lose, or end up in a coalition – either way he’d never be held to his promise.

Oops, did you mean that? I thought it was tax issues…..

Yes him, he’d harvest votes hand over fist.

Of course he wouldn’t – he would just be another middling character with no proper labour policies.
Corbyn got votes because of who is is and what his policies are.

ooooof on TV now Mays campaign paying voters to vote after being canvassed by a call centre …actual film footage of em doing it…..estimates of 20 million people being contacted?

Of course he wouldn’t – he would just be another middling character with no proper labour policies.

Like Blair. 😀

Corbyn got votes because of who is is and what his policies are.

Corbyn lost because of who he is and what his policies are.

option actually being applied, not least to see how people react to the lower wages and high prices that would ensue. Be

My take home has been going down for the last few years, I’ve not noticed prices going down either

Like Blair.

Yes, like Blair, bloody awful.

Corbyn lost because of who he is and what his policies are.

Nope.

Mmmm… And because he wasn’t the Tories

Chukka is a busted flush. Starmer on the other hand is much more the real deal. Come to think of it, if we put Starmer and Hammond in a room and told them to sort out the Brexshit mess together and ignore the idiots around them, we might have some progress. No chance, sadly….

Starmer on the other hand is much more the real deal. Come to think of it, if we put Starmer and Hammond in a room and told them to sort out the Brexshit mess together and ignore the idiots around them, we might have some progress. No chance, sadly….

Indeed. The referendum divided the conservatives and to a slightly smaller extent Labour too, both in public and in private. Wife and I were talking the other day about what it would be to have some kind of cross party package to make the least worst outcome for all of this -whoever is in government in 2 years time we are all going to suffer for it. Starmer is the most able person to manage this IMHO.

I would have thrown Angus Robertson – despite his dodgy grasp on what’s good for Scotland – in the mix too, but the Scots decided to elect a Tory instead. Democracy is a funny thing isn’t it?

IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.

There is no doubt at allin any same analysis that Corbyn was a vote winner – despite the co ordinated campaign against him by most of the press and a large part of his own party

Those that oppose Corbyn within his own party are not ” moderates” – they are out of touch right wingers. Corbyn sits firmly in the centre left tradition of the labour party and his policies would sit comfortably with most european centre left parties.

Starmer on the other hand is much more the real deal.

Not really heard much of him but he went to RGS so he must be good.

Angus Robertson

Back in the Autumn, no doubt.

Stop talking sense THM

they are out of touch right wingers.

Which would make de-selecting them even more reasonable.

IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.

Hmmm. Teresa May got more votes than Blair, is she a vote winner? In 1997 Blair got 418 seats, an increase of 145 seats. This time Labour got 262 an increase of 30.

There is no doubt at all in any same analysis that Corbyn was a vote winner

I think he was a liability and any other Labour front bench/leader since (and including) Kinnock would have won last week. In the absence of a ‘control’ candidate we’ll never know for sure.

outofbreath – Member

Angus Robertson
Back in the Autumn, no doubt.

Predicting a government collapse? 😆 Or just a by election?

outofbreath – Member

IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.
Hmmm. Teresa May got more votes than Blair, is she a vote winner

I think it’s crazy to say corbyn was as successful as blair there, but momentum(in the literal sense) was on his side. if the election was today, we’d be waking up to a corbyn led gov.

To deny his campaign wasn’t successful on the other hand is just mental. he’s absolutely consolidated control and unified his party, at least publicly. context is everything.

I think he was a liability and any other Labour front bench/leader since (and including) Kinnock would have won last week. In the absence of a ‘control’ candidate we’ll never know for sure.

With the same manifesto? Or for eg Ed Millibands manifesto?

People, would still have to (make the mistake of putting/) put an x against his name Joe, and that is a massive, some would say crazy, ask.

There is making a silly choice and there’s making a delusional one – not a great choice really….

IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.

IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.

depends on the year of comparison

Corbyn 2017 12,874,985
Blair 1997 13,518,167
Blair 2001 10,724,953
Blair 2005 9,552,436
Brown 2010 8,606,527
Miliband 2015 9,347,304

the swing is wrong ^^^ swing to Corbyn was 9.6%
and the swing to blair was 8.8 in 97

Ta Klunk

That shows the reality of this

Chukka and his ilk would have got far less seats. Remember they tried being bland under Milliband.

depends on the year of comparison

He still lost.

Like Blair.

Who presided over an initial growth in votes but then a steady drop in membership and votes until he bailed at just the right moment to drop Brown in it.
Admittedly Chukka would be more likely to get the media barons support and big business cash but thats not necessarily a good thing for the Labour party or, for that matter, the country.

looking back, it’s the best labour vote share since blair in 97, as per above. But going beyond that, you need to go back to harold wilson in 1966 to get higher, and before that, only other times it was higher was atlee in 1951 and 1950.

So, it’s the 5th largest labour vote share in history, who’d’ve(I’m declaring that acceptable english) predicted that 3 months ago! 😆

eamhurtmore – Member
People, would still have to (make the mistake of putting/) put an x against his name Joe, and that is a massive, some would say crazy, ask.

There is making a silly choice and there’s making a delusional one – not a great choice really….still not voting tory? 😉

CaptainFlashheart – Member
depends on the year of comparison
He still lost.

a hung parliament is very much a draw.

Its not hung though is it. The DUP will vote with the Tories to keep IRA sympathising Corbyn out.

Tories 318 Labour 266 – this is Corbyn’s idea of winning

So how many days you think it’ll last jambs? 150?

jambalaya – Member
Its not hung though is it. The DUP will vote with the Tories to keep IRA sympathising Corbyn out.

jambalaya – Member

Its not hung though is it

Oh, so you don’t know what “hung parliament” means? Ah don’t worry, it’s probably not important to know things.

Northwind be very careful we have had enough of experts don’t you know

And as a sign of how desperate the dup are they have still not managed to agree terms with may other than one vote at a time it seems. Who exactly is in charge of that relationship?

Chukka Umunna doesnt register with voters outside London and those that do know of him see him as fake labour. Time for that sort is gone.