Should Theresa May resign?

I offered an article that mentioned two nationalizations. Rail & Mail. I did that to support my claim that Labour’s Manifesto incluided multiple nationalizations. Yes the article mentioned many other things that were not Nationalizations

Err no. You offered energy as an example, when it isn’t. You were wrong.

See post above with link.

Yep, that doesn’t support your claim. Next!

Cool, so name some that have both left the EU and nationalized multiple industries within 5 years. Apparently it’s commonplace.

Oh man – you’ve won! We can’t do it! You’ve simply outplayed us in every regard. I’m going to go and weep gently into my own pile of Militant back-issues.

Err no. You offered energy as an example, when it isn’t. You were wrong.

I directly quoted the article in quotes as requested.

Yep, that doesn’t support your claim. Next!

In which case, do you disagree with my opinion? Do you think that the PLP are in step with Momentum and if Jeremy Corbyn went under a bus tomorrow the PLP would put a Momentum friendly candidate forward? Or would they put people like Chukka forward?

Given that, do you think the Labour Leadership rules and the PLP will need to be changed ASAP to allow future momentum friendly candidates to be put to the membership, or not?

Oh man – you’ve won!

To be fair, google won.

If we’d be having this debate 30 years ago you could have spun it out for weeks.

Re: PLP I’m honestly not sure. Difficult to gauge how many of the 47 new Labour MPs would feel differently towards Corbyn. 35 needed for a nomination.

I directly quoted the article in quotes as requested.

The article you quoted doesn’t support your claim.

In which case, do you disagree with my opinion? Do you think that the PLP are in step with Momentum and if Jeremy Corbyn went under a bus tomorrow the PLP would put a Momentum friendly candidate forward? Or would they put people like Chukka forward?

Given that, do you think the Labour Leadership rules and the PLP will need to be changed ASAP to allow future momentum friendly candidates to be put to the membership, or not?
I’m not interested in your opinion. I want you to substantiate your claim:

Now, about your claim that Momentum has taken over the party. Evidence, please!

On the radio (R4) news a few mins ago, when an EU minister was asked about Britain Remaining in the EU he was quoted “the EU was born of believers, I’m a believer”
Quite what that means I don’t really know, but I do wonder if they’ll let May sweat a great deal more until she scuttles off into Grey Shoe Land.

Re: PLP I’m honestly not sure. Difficult to gauge how many of the 47 new Labour MPs would feel differently towards Corbyn. 35 needed for a nomination.

I still think that even if a large number of the 47 new candidates are momentum friendly JC will still want to change the rules to allow momentum friendly candidates to be put to the membership in perpetuity. It’s quite reasonable for him to want to do so given how clear it is that the PLP have been dramatically out of step with the grass roots for 30 years, at least. (Some say 100 years.)

Is the change that corbyn wants to make not more just a change to the automatic re-selection rules?

Must stop eating those wasps.

The tension in her hands is worrying..

Is the change that corbyn wants to make not more just a change to the automatic re-selection rules?

I think they want/need/desire ‘Trigger ballots’ as opposed to automatic re-selection plus fewer nominations required from PLP for Leadership ballots to the membership.

Why would Momentun *not* want that? Also, it’s pretty hard to logically argue against.

Jeebus!

That picture up there

Foster is the boss there & no mistake!

Dear me. The Maybot is really, really looking like a badly made up extra in an old Hammer Horror film, isn’t she?

How long will this very public humiliation go on for? Even I’m starting to feel sorry for her

How long will this very public humiliation go on for?

Only reason she is still in place is no one wants the poisoned chalice. I thought chances were she would be gone pretty quick but no one seems to want the job. Which I think says something about the Brexit mess.

likewise, after her shocking performance in the GE i was sure she’d get her marching orders very quickly. hey ho. it all just has to run it’s course i guess.

She’s being kept on to be the fall guy.

bikebouy – Member

he was quoted “the EU was born of believers, I’m a believer” Quite what that means I don’t really know

It means there’s not a trace of doubt in his mind, and he couldn’t leave the EU if he tried.

This Momentum red peril paranoia is getting so old. The election showed that eveb *if* Corbyn is being controlled by Momentum (remotely?) it’s not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.

likewise, after her shocking performance in the GE i was sure she’d get her marching orders very quickly. hey ho. it all just has to run it’s course i guess.

It was said straight away that the last thing anyone needed was a leadership election, so she’s been told to get TF on wiv it and everything else can wait!

This Momentum red peril paranoia is getting so old. The election showed that eveb *if* Corbyn is being controlled by Momentum (remotely?) it’s not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.

I don’t believe the majority of the electorate were even aware of Momentum. The newspapers focused on Corbyn’s history with the IRA as they thought that would make more impact. Ask any 18-21 year old if they know who momentum is and you’ll get blank faces.

Personally I hope her yeast infection clears up and she stops taking out her anger on us poor proles.

Isn’t Momentum just ‘the party membership’ anyway? They may disagree with other party members, but that’s allowed isn’t it?

Is this an accurate description of Momentum?

Wiki

Isn’t Momentum just ‘the party membership’ anyway?

Not necessarily. We just had our labour MP overturn a tiny majority of 300 to a labour majority of 5000. James is certainly not a Corbynite, by any stretch of the imagination. But neither has he said anything against him (Turnham-esque?). The momentum lot did try and get established and cause a bit of mischief, and then we had this.. They both got about as far as each other, and were equally well received by the local labour party.

You can’t just rock up and overturn an MP or candidate who has a strong relationship with the local party, and impose your own. It doesn’t work like that

Isn’t Momentum just ‘the party membership’ anyway? They may disagree with other party members, but that’s allowed isn’t it?

Yup, they’re members and it’s perfectly reasonable for them to want a PLP that’s inline with their views and rules that make it easier for a leader with their views to get onto the Leadership Ballot.

Which surely supports the idea that they might well implement those changes.

it’s not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.

I think a *lot* of people saw through the giveaway/pork barrel manifesto. I know serious Corbyn supporters who didn’t believe he could do it. I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don’t believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I’d have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical.

Lifer – Member
This Momentum red peril paranoia is getting so old. The election showed that eveb *if* Corbyn is being controlled by Momentum (remotely?) it’s not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.

yip, corbyn has already achieved the fundamental change in labour tbh.

outofbreath – Member
Is the change that corbyn wants to make not more just a change to the automatic re-selection rules?
I think they want/need/desire ‘Trigger ballots’ as opposed to automatic re-selection plus fewer nominations required from PLP for Leadership ballots to the membership.

Why would Momentun *not* want that? Also, it’s pretty hard to logically argue against.I´d agree democracy is quite a hard thing to argue against! 😆

Yup, they’re members and it’s perfectly reasonable for them to want a PLP that’s inline with their views and rules that make it easier for a leader with their views to get onto the Leadership Ballot.

Which surely supports the idea that they might well implement those changes.

Now, about your claim that Momentum has taken over the party. Evidence, please!

I think a *lot* of people saw through the giveaway/pork barrel manifesto. I know serious Corbyn supporters who didn’t believe he could do it. I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don’t believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I’d have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical.

Just to confirm, we’re talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?

Just to confirm, we’re talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?

Still didn’t win. I didn’t vote for him for the reasons oob states.

Just to confirm, we’re talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?

No, we are talking about the total cluster **** that May is making, you are getting sidetracked by a tory boy desperately trying to distract from what a complete shambles the tories are in.

I think a *lot* of people saw through the giveaway/pork barrel manifesto. I know serious Corbyn supporters who didn’t believe he could do it. I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don’t believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I’d have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical

Aaand yet Corbyn has a 7pt lead over May now?

And the Tories are so terrified they’d lose an election right now that they are being played like kippers by the DUP ?

In fact, given that Labour’s manifesto promised more for 95% of people, oob’s assertion must have something in it given the result, even after correcting for tribalism and the press!

I´d agree democracy is quite a hard thing to argue against!

Well it is. PLP moderates can hardly say “We have to have these rules because the membership can’t be trusted to pick a leader.” I’m not quite sure what argument they could employ. It feels kind of inevitable to me.

Just to confirm, we’re talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?

That’s right. The party that, even with a pork barrel giveaway Manifesto, failed to get anywhere near a party that’s spent 7 years doing unpopular stuff with a leader everyone agrees is worse than useless.

Rockape63 – Member

I don’t believe the majority of the electorate were even aware of Momentum.

I think a lot of people are aware of them, since the press has made a ludicrous noise about them. Show my dad a picture of a Labour rally with 5000 people and he’ll say “they’re all Momentum”. But Labour has 517000 members, Momentum has 24000 meaning that in any given town they have about enough members to take over an Argos.

with a leader everyone agrees is worse than useless.

They agree that now! Look back 8 weeks ago:

In fact, I went back to the “is May about to call an election thread” and there are some absolute classic predictions in there.

jekkyl – Member

very clever.
Labour are all over the place at the moment and in no place to wage a GE campaign, let alone one in 2 months! but at least it means we will get to hear Corbyn’s policies unfettered by media bias and freely heard through the media. Time to get your finger out Jezzer! Pretty good!

stumpyjon – Member

Well looks like the Lib Dems are the only credible option left…..

Obvious move on May’s part really, she can’t lose, if she gets kicked out she dodges Brexit, if she wins with a bigger majority (highly likely) she won’t be having to fight an election in 2020 just as the Brexshit bomb is going off.This one completely missed the hung parliament lame duck middle-ground where she could indeed lose.

Binners was uncharacteristically pessimistic 😉

Tories to win.
Labour to take a hammering.
Libs to win back a fair chunk of what they lost.

Bang on!

Also: UKIP finally put out of its misery as its vote is reduced to 2 old blokes and a woman who shouts at buses. All the UKIP votes going Tory to deliver an absolutely enormous majority. Labour reduced to 100 seats. Corbyn still refuses to resign and all the Momentum muppets elect him as leader again [/quote]

I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don’t believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I’d have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical

I would be amazed if 3% of the electorate understood what you are saying.

The reality is recent elections shows you win them by selling dreams be it bring back control or tax the rich. Whether the goal is achievable is not that important it just has to be something people want to achieve ;they dont seem to concern themselves much with the details of HOW.
]]the reality is Corbyn mantra of more inclusion, helping out everyone and making the rich pay a little more – for the many not the few- was popular

We will have to wait till the next election to see if it is achievable

AlexSimon – Member

In fact, I went back to the “is May about to call an election thread” and there are some absolute classic predictions in there.

I was happy to be so wrong tbh. I think the only bit I got right was saying Corbyn was right to back the vote for the election, while a lot of people were saying it was madness. Oh and called my own seat right when electoral calculus were saying it’d probably go tory.

It’s fun reading pre-election newspaper articles though.

She/or Davies to have an interesting meeting this evening over citizenship rights, the EU have published thier agenda here so it will be a laugh to see what crock may and Davis spout tomorrow about it as it sets out the EU position very clearly, all EU citizens in the UK and all UK citizens in EU will be fully protected as they are currently, no iff’s, no but’s.

There’s no room for manuvre there, it’s perfectly proper and reasonable. All the UK government can do is agree with it, unless they are serious about the ‘no deal’ scenario which would displace or put millions of people into poverty.

Meanwhile may refused to publicly reassure anybody over this issue and has not said a word about looking after UK expatriates.