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Should Theresa May resign?
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AlexSimonFull Member
I’m not sure they should or need to attack. Just act as if they are the natural government imo.
outofbreathFree MemberI’m still not sure if he is too distasteful to too many to stand a chance
He is. In the last leadership battle it was quite clear he’s the Tory Corbyn – the membership love him, the MPs can’t stomach him. BoJo will not lead the Tory party because the MPs will not allow it.
AlexSimonFull MemberI suspect the situation still rules out BoJo assuming his brain isn’t overruled by his ego
I reckon Gove and BoJo’s egos would make them believe they are perfectly capable of single-handedly turning the current situation around.
slowsterFree MemberI thought General Elections were the biggest drain on political party funds, and that it took them a few years to build up funds again after each GE.
Are all the parties going to be able to fund another campaign if it happens in the next few months, especially the Conservatives? Many potential wealthy donors may not want to back the Conservatives if they look likely to lose, and also they may not donate if they expect to be harmed by Brexit.
ransosFree MemberIn the meantime the Labour party’s hijacking by Momentum is looking permanent – the deselection of moderates in the PLP is inevitable now.
I suggest you take more water with it. The reality is that Labour’s manifesto is moderately left of centre – the sort of thing which is commonplace in most of Europe.
outofbreathFree MemberI’m not sure they should or need to attack. Just act as if they are the natural government imo.
I’m not sure they are ‘about’ winning elections. This was never about winning in 2020 (or 2017 as it turned out) this was always about changing PLP to be in line with the Labour membership. JC/JM/DA were as suprised as anyone else they got within 50 seats of the Torys.
They’re playing the long game. Being in a position to deselect the moderate Labour MPs and change the Labour party leadership rules is what matters to them, not immediate power.
Digression: Anyone know if the constituency boundary changes will happen in 2018 as planned?
binnersFull MemberI reckon Gove and BoJo’s egos would make them believe they are perfectly capable of single-handedly turning the current situation around.
I reckon David Davis vainglorious detachment from reality when it comes to appraising his own (very limited) abilities, would see him unable to chuck his name in too
I’m putting a tenner on it being Phil. Remember that the vast majority of Tory MPs were remainers, and I think there’s a desire to stop this ludicrously self-destructive Hard Brexit stance, put the grown ups back in charge, and put the hysterical right wingers back in their box
Digression: Anyone know if the constituency boundary changes will happen in 2018 as planned?
In yet more delicious irony, thats been kicked into touch by the DUP, as the boundary changes would favour Sinn Fein
outofbreathFree MemberThe reality is that Labour’s manifesto is moderately left of centre – the sort of thing which is commonplace in most of Europe.
Nationalizing multiple large industries in 5 years at the same time as leaving the EU is commonplace in most of Europe? Care to name a single country that’s done that in the modern era?
ransosFree MemberNationalizing multiple large industries in 5 years at the same time as leaving the EU is commonplace in most of Europe? Care to name a single country that’s done that in the modern era?
I’m pretty sure you can’t blame Labour for Brexit, given that most of its supporters voted to remain. No, see the Tories for that one.
Turning to nationalization, no, that’s not what they’re proposing. I suppose you might believe that if your thinking is outsourced to the Daily Mail.
ransosFree MemberIn yet more delicious irony, thats been kicked into touch by the DUP, as the boundary changes would favour Sinn Fein
I didn’t know that – do you have a link?
outofbreathFree MemberI’m pretty sure you can’t blame Labour for Brexit, given that most of its supporters voted to remain. No, see the Tories for that one.
I’m not blaming them for putting leaving the EU in their manifesto. I’m saying it isn’t commonplace in Europe. You’re saying the stuff in their manifesto *is* commonplace in Europe. You’re wrong.
Turning to nationalization, no, that’s not what they’re proposing.
outofbreathFree MemberIn yet more delicious irony, thats been kicked into touch by the DUP, as the boundary changes would favour Sinn Fein
Linky?
kimbersFull MemberAre all the parties going to be able to fund another campaign if it happens in the next few months, especially the Conservatives? Many potential wealthy donors may not want to back the Conservatives if they look likely to lose, and also they may not donate if they expect to be harmed by Brexit.
IIRC tories spent £12m on their campaign, labour £4m
Maybot was out schmoozing big money donors the other night at a fundraiser, so the tories are preparinghttp://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-savoy_uk_59493a8ce4b07499199ed1a6
binnersFull MemberWhy boundry changes weren’t in the Queens Speech
You really couldn’t make it up. The true scale of Mays **** up snowballs by the day 😆
finbarFree MemberI didn’t know that – do you have a link?
It was discussed on here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08wr7ss
ransosFree MemberI’m not blaming them for putting leaving the EU in their manifesto. I’m saying it isn’t commonplace in Europe. You’re saying the stuff in their manifesto *is* commonplace in Europe. You’re wrong.
Give over. You were doing your usual shtick about Labour being hard left. There is nothing in their manifesto to support your claim, as you know perfectly well.
Turning to nationalization, no, that’s not what they’re proposing.
Yep, Labour are not proposing what you claim. Next!
kimbersFull Memberreally theyll kill the boundry changes? that wouldve gained them, what 20-30 seats
all to hang on to 10 DUP votes
thats hilarious the DUP arent just retoxifying the tories they are hobbling them too!
ransosFree MemberWhy boundry changes weren’t in the Queens Speech
I’m starting to like the devils’ pact!
outofbreathFree MemberThere is nothing in their manifesto to support your claim, as you know perfectly well.
I claimed Momentum have taken over the Labour party and that the PLP will now be ‘adjusted’ to be more like the Labour Membership.
You didn’t even address that claim. You argued that the manifesto commitments were commonplace in Europe which is irrelevant to whether the Labour Party has been taken over or not.
However I chose to respond to that non-sequitur and I’ve given you two examples of significant things in the manifesto that are not commonplace in Europe.
AlexSimonFull MemberBlimey outofbreath – you’re sounding a lot like jamba.
The position they are trying to get back to is very similar to many countries in Europe.
You said “Nationalizing multiple large industries” and then only point to rail, which is a franchise model anyway leased anyway, so not a large cost to take back when franchises come to an end.When the east coast line was run by a public franchise Directly Operated Railways made a billion pounds for the treasury.
Corbyn himself seems very receptive to moderate MPs as long as they aren’t constantly trying to undermine his leadership. For the moment they have common ground in that they all support the manifesto and are seeking to get JC as PM. I don’t see why the knives would be out.
outofbreathFree MemberWhy boundry changes weren’t in the Queens Speech
Ta. Staggering.
ransosFree MemberI claimed Momentum have taken over the Labour party and that the PLP will now be ‘adjusted’ to be more like the Labour Membership.
You didn’t even address that claim. You argued that the manifesto commitments were commonplace in Europe which is irrelevant to whether the Labour Party has been taken over or not.
You know how burden of proof works, right?
martinhutchFull MemberIt’s an odd day when you feel grateful that a bunch of flag-waving bigots like the DUP are in a position of influence, if it’s true they’ve put the brakes on Tory plans to gerrymander the entire election system.
AlexSimonFull MemberYou know how burden of proof works, right?
Exactly. There comes a point where lies are so obvious that we just assume that everyone else reading except jamby/ninfan/chewwy and yourself can see right through it and we know from past experience that it’s pointless expecting any acceptance of rebuttals from the aforementioned.
kimbersFull MemberThis, very much this
http://newsthump.com/2017/06/22/eu-leaders-told-not-to-laugh-at-theresa-may/
outofbreathFree MemberI don’t see why the knives would be out.
Because as it is the PLP would never allow another momentum friendly candidate onto the leadership ballot.
Momentum *have* to change the rules ASAP or when Corbyn goes (for whatever reason – he’s no spring chicken) Momentum’s control ends.
There comes a point where lies are so obvious
I think that point is where a couple of posts after I link to two nationalizations in the Labour manifesto you claim I only linked to one!
You know how burden of proof works, right?
Yes, that’s why I linked to two nationalizations to support my claim.
ransosFree MemberI claimed Momentum have taken over the Labour party and that the PLP will now be ‘adjusted’ to be more like the Labour Membership.
You know how burden of proof works, right?
Yes, that’s why I linked to two nationalizations to support my claim.
How convincing!
outofbreathFree MemberHow convincing!
Facts usually are!
I claimed Momentum have taken over the Labour party and that the PLP will now be ‘adjusted’ to be more like the Labour Membership.
You didn’t dispute that.
You ignored it and instead argued that the Labour manifesto was commonplace in European countries. That’s what we disagreed about that that’s what I provided facts to back up.
AlexSimonFull MemberI think that point is where a couple of posts after I link to two nationalizations in the Labour manifesto you claim I only linked to one!
You’ll have to be explicit – I still can’t find it.
ransosFree MemberFacts usually are!
Feel free to present some in support of your claim.
outofbreathFree MemberYou’ll have to be explicit – I still can’t find it.
From the link above:
Corbyn will lay out plans to take parts of Britain’s energy industry back into public ownership alongside the railways and the Royal Mail
Mail is in the headline too.
outofbreathFree MemberFeel free to present some in support of your claim.
LOL, you didn’t dispute it when I wrote it, however:
Just out of interest do you disagree with my opinion? Do you think that the PLP are in step with Momentum and if Jeremy Corbyn went under a bus tomorrow the PLP would put a Momentum friendly candidate forward? Or would they put people like Chukka forward?
Given that do you think the Labour Leadership rules and the PLP will need to be changed ASAP to allow future momentum friendly candidates to be put to the membership, or not?
ransosFree MemberCorbyn will lay out plans to take parts of Britain’s energy industry back into public ownership
The proposal is to have a publicly-owned offer in each region. That is not nationalization.
Now, about your claim that Momentum has taken over the party. Evidence, please!
kimbersFull Memberplenty of European countries have nationalised rail, utilities etc or at least state owned franchises
plenty of those state run companies also run subsidy hoovering providers here too, dutch, german, french, + chinese, japanese etc
outofbreathFree MemberThe proposal is to have a publicly-owned offer in each region. That is not nationalization.
I didn’t say it was. I said there were multiple Nationalizations in the Labour manifesto. You even quoted it.
outofbreathFree Memberplenty of European countries have nationalised rail, utilities etc or at least state owned franchises
Cool, so name some that have both left the EU and nationalized multiple industries within 5 years. Apparently it’s commonplace.
ransosFree MemberI didn’t say it was. I said there were multiple Nationalizations in the Labour manifesto. You even quoted it.
You offered energy as an example of nationalization. It isn’t.
Now, about your claim that Momentum has taken over the party. Evidence, please!
outofbreathFree MemberYou offered energy as an example of nationalization. It isn’t.
I offered an article that mentioned two nationalizations. Rail & Mail. I did that to support my claim that Labour’s Manifesto incluided multiple nationalizations. Yes the article mentioned many other things that were not Nationalizations.
outofbreathFree MemberNow, about your claim that Momentum has taken over the party. Evidence, please!
See post above with link.
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