Should Theresa May resign?

Jambs, no deal means

Hard border in NI
Deporting all EU citizens , how many doctors, nurses, etc etc?
All those Brit retirees being sent back too
End of all EU scientific collaboration, ESA, LHC, iter?
End of terrorism information sharing
Immediate damage to trade, customs checks supply chains and single market access would mean manufactures would leave on droves.
World Bank reckons if the UK shifted from EU to WTO terms, trade in goods with the EU would halve and trade in services would fall 60 per cent.

‘No deal’ is a fantasy for the gullible
Even Someone as ill-equipped as Davis knows it’s an empty threat, let alone the EU.

kimbers – Member

Jambs, no deal means
Deporting all EU citizens
All those Brit retirees being sent back too

Doesn’t, actually. Just means that the only decision we’d influence is whether or not to deport EU citizens. And the EU could decide on whether to deport ours. We wouldn’t be compelled to deport anyone and neither would they

I suppose you’re right

It’s not like we’d be foolish enough to do something completely wreckless based on ignorance and xenophobia 😉

I mean, You couldn’t possibly imagine the mail or sun demanding we deport any foreigners !

With no deal, UK workers abroad would all need work visas. And similarly, all the EU citizens here would also need work visas, which would require going through all the tiered sponsoring employer craziness. Not to mention getting some health insurance and proving they can support themselves.

So effectively most would have to return back to wherever they came from.

‘No deal’ is a fantasy for the gullible

Which is not to say it won’t happen.

I’d think the likely scenario is A50 is cancelled and we’re told to come back when we’re serious.

Can it actually be cancelled?

Doesn’t that require agreement not only from us (dysfunctional government is going to struggle) but also all 27 remaining EU countries?

Eventually you get to a point where it’s simply not possible for all of those countries to agree in time, even if they want to.

At that point, A50 goes ahead by default and we’re into WTO territory with no deal.

And effectively we get there earlier than that anyway – for example, would Tesco be able to place orders for tomatoes from Holland to be delivered after the cut-off date?

I doubt the EU would deport all the retirees but it would mean an end to free healthcare for them and insurance will be prohibitive so most would come back to the UK

Can it actually be cancelled?

Yes many have agreed on this including french president.

And effectively we get there earlier than that anyway – for example, would Tesco be able to place orders for tomatoes from Holland to be delivered after the cut-off date?

Yes the governments will need to collect any tariffs required on those and they would need to be part of any WTO stipulations on tomatoes.

Back to the original should TM resign, given her recent political moves it’s a no, there is no way that woman could successfully manage to resign.

oldnpastit – Member
I’d think the likely scenario is A50 is cancelled and we’re told to come back when we’re serious.
Can it actually be cancelled?

Nothing is A50 states that it can’t, and nothing in the published guide lines state that it can’t either. So imo it’s entirely possible.

It also looks to me like the EU will push these negotiations to the point of a cliff edge anyhow.(hope the tories are taking lessons from their DUP friends here 😆 ) for a few reasons, one is the stipulation that “nothing is agreed till everything is agreed”(seems a tall order in 18 months to me) secondly the definite date that’s unlikely to be extended imo. And lastly the EU are going to be entirely transparent and publish everything about the negotiations as it happens and keep everything very transparent from their point of view, I don’t see how having everything in the open won’t cause arguments in the UK, ye can bet the tories would want everything thing private if at all possible.

I’m speculating from a laymans view point though, I have no inside knowledge, just what everyone else can read.

At least the tory press have her back


and by her back I mean just lining it all up and sharpening the knives

tjagain – Member
I doubt the EU would deport all the retirees but it would mean an end to free healthcare for them and insurance will be prohibitive so most would come back to the UK

doubt they’d want to deport them anyhow, migrants contribute to your economy overall. So deportation seems like self harm to me.

especially if they now have to pay for the shiney new hospital built on the costa del sol for brit retirees

Not sure half a million non economically active peolpe contribute much – I suppose their pensions are being paid by the UK so that is income

they’ll create jobs etc no doubt, they don’t just exist in a self sufficient bubble.

seosamh77 – Member
they’ll create jobs etc no doubt, they don’t just exist in a self sufficient bubble.

One is it enough? Do they actually support themselves fully.
If the pound falls will their pensions cover their liabilities?
Can they afford private healthcare as they get older?

It’s only fair that they apply for visa’s and are assessed in the same way as people from around the world.

Edit and that BoJo BBC interview is a full on motorway pile up. I thought the BBC were meant to be going easy on the government?? Straight in with a tough question and then more!! How very dare they

the healthcare one is a biggie. I doubt they would be eligible for the state run insurance so would need fully private insurance and for older folk with existing medical conditions this will simply be unaffordable

You could be talking thousands a month. Certainly hundreds

dunno i’m no expert on that.

So shouold May resign? from whos pint of view? Tory party – no – they want her to carry the can for the mess. No one wants to step in to try to sort out the mess apart from the terminally deluded who would be blocked by the sensible part of the party. Labour? I think quite happy for her to carry on digging a hole for herself in the short term. They want another election not May to resign and somone else put in place. For the good of the country? Certainly

I’m tempted to point out that the SNP have won the Tories the last 2 elections – in 2015 they won it for the Tories in England, in 2017 they won it for them in Scotland!

aracer – Member

I’m tempted to point out that the SNP have won the Tories the last 2 elections – in 2015 they won it for the Tories in England, in 2017 they won it for them in Scotland!

Eh. That doesn’t make any sense. In 2015 the ridiculous “vote labour get SNP” campaign definitely swung some voters but that’s not the SNP winning it for the Tories, that’s the Tories winning it for the Tories by playing on English voters’ smallmindedness. And in 2017 they didn’t win it for the Tories anywhere, in any sense.

You can’t lay the blame for English prejudice in 2015 at the feet of the snp! 😆 that was the Tories them selves that planted that seed.

Re2017 318 – 13 is still a larger number than 262-7. Or the lib Dems12 – 4

England Wales ni result
305+10 = 315
255+8+13(-7 sinnfein) = 269

Seems to me that 269 isn’t 13 higher than 315! 😆

Yeah, but they had to have something to plant it in.

Well some bloke on here suggested:

“the SNP must be stopped” and all they had to say was “correct- and Labour can’t do it in this seat”. And played out nationally, that helped the Tories to 13 seats

The indy refs are done for a bit aracer you can come out of character. 😆

@aracer, that’s a nice nonsequitor you have there, but now could you explain how the SNP won the election for the Tories?

I’m taking the piss a bit, but check out the Scottish MPs in 2010 and tell me that the difference between then and now is nothing at all to do with the SNP. I’m simply following the logic of the rise of the SNP being rejected by some and resulting in them voting Tory in seats Labour used to hold.

There’s a connection of course, that’s fptp politics, everything is a vote for something and a vote against everything else. But that’s not the same thing. And if you’re going to say wot won it, and Labour essentially campaigned for the Tories, then it’s daft to put the “credit” anywhere else. Scottish Labour themselves are proud of this achievement. Apparently it never even occured to them to win the argument, they were so excited about how they could lose.

I know SNP = Bad but you can’t expect them to win all the seats, all the time,

Labour are responsible for the 13 scots tory seats – the election up here was labour, tory, lib dem against the SNP – they colluded and had a virtual non agression / tactical voting pact. Its a disgrace

Why the need to take the piss out of AF’s appearance btw?

It was wrong when it was aimed at Diane Abbott and it’s equally wrong when aimed at Arlene.

Just sayin’.

People voting Tory are responsible for Tory seats. A bit of a leap but. Think the logic is sound. 😆

Didn’t Das Maybot quote this morning “my plans for a hard Brexit are in tatters” or something to that effect.

I can answer that Luv. Yes, because You Have NO Plans.
And the “immigration pledge” has been dropped too.

She looked remarkably ill yesterday, maybe she ought to lie down and take the weight off her brain.

Also good to see a turnout in Town protesting against her..

I’m kind of disappointed in you guys, all of you can do nuance and understand there is more than one cause to things, but you’re looking at things in a very one dimensional way:

FFS Joe – I’m sure you can cope with looking at the causes behind why people vote a certain way.

If it helps at all, I’m not suggesting it’s the fault of the SNP, but what exactly has caused the election of Tory MPs in seats they haven’t held since before the poll tax (feel free to correct me on this, I’ve not checked the details of how seats have been held, but very recently the Tories were all but wiped out in Scotland)?

I’m actually interested in a sensible discussion on this (yeah, I know this is probably the wrong thread, but the thought was prompted by NW’s post). How have the Tories done so well in Scotland relative to the rest of the UK and relative to their position in every other election since 1997? I’m also wondering whether TM would still be in Downing Street if the SNP hadn’t been so bullish about Indyref2 and made that such a significant issue for the unionists (small u) in Scotland this election.

She’s off to Brussels today for a bit more humiliation. Bet seeing Macron is the hardest part with his huge majority voted in on an actual manifesto and with a genuine mandate.

It gets worse as, after she’s delivered her hugely popular Brexit ‘plans’ she gets booted out and they discuss who will be getting the prestigious European Medicines and Banking authority.

She’s the PM that’s steering the UK straight onto the rocks and she knows it

? I’m also wondering whether TM would still be in Downing Street if the SNP hadn’t been so bullish about Indyref2 and made that such a significant issue for the unionists (small u) in Scotland this election.

Get ye to the indyref thread with this stuff

Anyway I think it was Davidson and her team who cunningly kept the debate on a 2nd ref, sturgeon was trying to avoid it.

The Tories in England seem to have no one even vaguely as competent as Ruth!

Why the need to take the piss out of AF’s appearance btw?

Yup – let’s concentrate on pillorying absolutely everything about Boris Johnson.

How have the Tories done so well in Scotland relative to the rest of the UK and relative to their position in every other election since 1997?

Labour collapse
Solid unionists (Kezia slipped up when offering vote on second EU ref)

I’m kind of disappointed in you guys, all of you can do nuance and understand there is more than one cause to things, but you’re looking at things in a very one dimensional way:

seosamh77 » People voting Tory are responsible for Tory seats. A bit of a leap but. Think the logic is sound.
FFS Joe – I’m sure you can cope with looking at the causes behind why people vote a certain way.

If it helps at all, I’m not suggesting it’s the fault of the SNP, but what exactly has caused the election of Tory MPs in seats they haven’t held since before the poll tax (feel free to correct me on this, I’ve not checked the details of how seats have been held, but very recently the Tories were all but wiped out in Scotland)?

I’m actually interested in a sensible discussion on this (yeah, I know this is probably the wrong thread, but the thought was prompted by NW’s post). How have the Tories done so well in Scotland relative to the rest of the UK and relative to their position in every other election since 1997? I’m also wondering whether TM would still be in Downing Street if the SNP hadn’t been so bullish about Indyref2 and made that such a significant issue for the unionists (small u) in Scotland this election.It’s really a combination of a few of things, Davidson has done a great job on detoxifying them north of the border, so that’s been a big help to them. (I’ve been warning for years that there are loads of tories in scotland while people have been making panda jokes.)

So it’s now seen as acceptable to come out of the shadows again, which doens’t really explain the size of her vote.

I think polarization of the nationalist/unionist vote is where the battle lines really where (and tbh sturgeon got it wrong, she started the idea of a indyref2 and the tories ran with it after may called the election(calling sturgeons bluff somewhat), sturgeon imo mis calculated that the debate should have been a wider discussion. So the SNP largely couldn’t shift their vote as many minds where focused on indyref and the SNP position just lead to confusion, either go for it or don’t, the ambiguity didn’t help on what should have been a black and white campaign, imo.

Labour were just impotent all round, as I’ve mention many people wanted to vote Labour, due to Corbyn, but SLABs message was completely at odds to that, so there was extreme reluctance to vote SLAB despite the natural inclination, particular with a socialist leader in London(A massive black mark against Dugdale, people personally don’t want to vote for her or her party).

Ultimately, Davidson got her tactics right and the other 2 floundered. But there’s also the fact that the SNP was massively over inflated due to 2014, their 56 seats was always going to be erroded, but credit to the tories they did do extremely well. Shame on labour for a frankly apalling performance, the certainly a big chance to get alot of seats back. But then again, they also aren’t viewed as the protectors of the union, so how many they could have won is up for debate.

She looked remarkably ill yesterday, maybe she ought to lie down and take the weight off her brain.

She’s now effectively a hostage in Downing Street. In a kidnapping ordered by herself.

She has been totally humiliated, and what power she had has utterly evaporated. She’s a dead man walking, and everyone knows it.

But… any attempt to leave would bring about a leadership election that would (at best for the Tory’s) see the 2 sides of the party set about each other like rats in a sack, and at worst trigger a general election that they would definitely lose. And who knows… maybe some rioting thrown in, just to top it off

So she’s clearly been told to sit there and suck it up, presumably until things look better for the Tory party.

With David Davis clowning around in Europe, and the fallout from recent tragic events, can you see that being any time soon? or indeed ever.

They’re all simply sitting impotently, powerlessly, sucking their thumbs, desperately trying to postpone the inevitable.

I’ll give it 6 weeks, tops!

I’ll give it 6 weeks, tops!

Do you think they’ll get through the next week? I’m in two minds. Labour need to step it up imo.

QED

I’ll give it 6 weeks, tops!

Michael Portillo on “This Week” reckoned she’d want to be gone before the Tory conference.

…but who would take over? There’s nobody. For that matter, who would *want* to take over?

In the meantime the Labour party’s hijacking by Momentum is looking permanent – the deselection of moderates in the PLP is inevitable now.

Not a good time for the UK, and not a good time to be lacking a significant third political party, IMHO.

I reckon Labour and Corbyn are doing a fine job. They just need to give the Tories enough rope without going over the top – I’ve already heard comments suggesting that Corbyn is being overly critical (from people who would have laughed at him 2 months ago but are now taking him seriously) and they have to be careful of not alienating people by overdoing the attacks.

I can just imagine the private conversation yesterday “are you enjoying being PM, Theresa?”

I’ve no doubt there is a long list of people with ambition who’d be more than happy to take a poisoned chalice if it was their only chance. I suspect the situation still rules out BoJo assuming his brain isn’t overruled by his ego – but then I’m still not sure if he is too distasteful to too many to stand a chance anyway even now. But there is still Loathsome and plenty more like her waiting for their chance.