Should I buy a motorbike?

“lalalalalalala”

I pictured the father in the glaswegian dolmio pasta pisstake adverts there when i read that!

anagallis_arvensis – The Virsic road starts in Italy and enters Slovenia to follow the river Soca. To do the whole thing you need to hit italy. My old man nearly got shot when he forgot to stop at the italian border!!! 😀

Martin – I mentioned your mileage because you did in making your claims. You are an inexperienced rider. Just note that several people with ten or twenty times your experience have a very different view to you. Who is right – one inexperienced rider or several highly experienced ones? You are giving folk bad advice in suggesting it is OK to buy a big bike as your first bike

I tell you again. learning to ride a big sports bike properly is far harder if you have not had time on a smaller one. Its to do with the dynamics, the weight and the handling characteristics.

This is not snobbery – its good advice. almost all experienced riders will tell you this.

.a 2007 zx6r would have been fairly acceptable in your eyes

No it wouldn’t. its still a 100 bhp sports bike. What is best for a newb is something like the CB 500 or a ER6.

The higher / wider bar position gives you better leverage for steering and better visibility, the narrower tyres alter the steering dynamics and make it much easier to develop the feel for the tyre grip, you can find the limits of the bike at more reasonable speeds.

You need to develop the feel for the bike to be able to ride it properly. its much easier to do this on a smaller slower bike.

claiming to have done 16 thousand miles? did you read that as if i was proud of that in the time ive done it? i mentioned it because i am grateful that i havent come off in that time. you misread it as something like a boast.

“You are an inexperienced rider. Just note that several people with ten or twenty times your experience have a very different view to you. Who is right – one inexperienced rider or several highly experienced ones?”

You really are one in a million with the way you speak to people on here.you are now talking to people about how they ride and judging themhaving never seen them ride. Not only is this pretty bad, but the fact that you have a moment to consider what you say to people.. and come back and edit.. you dont.

Its this that makes you one in a million when it comes to stw. (as well as the other forums you frequent when i am out and about on a motorbike)

go have some breakfast.

Martin – yes I did read the 16 000 mile claim as you claiming you had a lot of experience.

I am not judging how you ride – but I am judging the bad advice you are giving people. Just where have I made any comment about how you ride.

On this thread several people with a lot more experience than you are saying that buying a bike sports bike for your first bike is a bad idea. Apparently you with your 16 000 miles experience know better than several people with hundreds of thousands of miles experience.

As for the nasty snidey comments – why? I have worked 2 x 12 hr nightshifts since this thread started.

juan – Member

Go for it. Take your time. Learn to ride and go a little bit better at each step. Plenty of people will tell you you’ll be ok buying a 50+ BHP as first bike. Just ignore them

Woody – Member

Sound advice from Juan. My last bike was a mere 68 bhp and that was still quick enough to get you into lots of trouble, especially in the wet.

the_lecht_rocks – Member

i started riding motorbikes at 6 years old .

i rode the road and the track and am now back on the road with mrs tlr on the back.

in my experience anyone who’s started to ride after their teens are generally prone to havinbg less ability and less speed as the self-preservation instinct stints progress……..unless you learn on the track…………..

for sure have a go, but FFS do not go power ranger on your R1 and end up in the hedge – it happens every weekend with the mid-life crisis set and it’s unnecessary…..

As stated by the others, get your direct access out the way on a hire bike, and get something worth having to start with – Suzuki SV would be ideal as great alround bike that you wont get bored of!

Spongebob – Member

……………. 500-600cc bikes would be about right as a first machine in my opinion. I’d generally avoid sports bikes as these are just going to encourage risk taking, but apart from this, they aren’t renowned for comfort.

Aristotle – Member

Go for it.

Observation and anticipation are the most important things on a motorbike, whatever you are riding.

I agree. (with what TJ said)Power might be good to brag about, but it’s not really about the bike -especially in sub-optimal conditions.

PeterPoddy – Member

But I’m with TJ. Hving a big bike ‘just becasue’ isn’t the way to go IMO.

Aristotle – Member

But I’m with TJ. Hving a big bike ‘just becasue’ isn’t the way to go IMO.

In most cases, passing DAS and getting a fast sports bike is just for bragging rights not riding enjoyment.

Haven’t read all of the above but if you fancy a bike go for it.

3 years ago I moved from middle of England to Wales.
Bought a cg125-(never driven a car) did 12000 miles and a tough winter on it.
I’m just over 6ft tall and felt daft on a cg-The varadero 125 is probably the best big little bike out there but they hold there value so don’t come cheap even second hand.
Glad I did a winter on a little bike or I might not be here now.
Passed DAS 2 years ago and bought a new sv650s-26000 miles on that.Lovely bike for a newbie but not the best position for a tall bloke-fun for about an hour then sore wrists-try a naked version if you can they have proper bars and a more upright position.
I swapped the sv for a 650 transalp.
A great bike for tall people-I wish I’d bought one first.

Start small whatever you try-be careful and have fun-you will love it!

One thing to bear in mind:

Although a middlewight like a CB500, SV650 or Monster isn’t fast in bike terms, compare it to a car and you’ve got something that will rip the living chuff out of an Impretza WRX or the like. I know. I’ve had that ding-dong in the past.

In the real world, they’re all seriously pokey. 🙂

Funny story. I have been known to race mountain bikes, and a story got distorted at work so now all the Building Work contractor guys who see me come in on the motorbike all think I race motorbikes, and are a little bit scared of me. (I have an L plate ffs)

Funny because I can’t even look straight at the MotoGP on the tele I have to look through my fingers.

Thanks for all advice plenty to think about there.

I passed my DAS a few years ago now – unfortunately economic downturn and mrs rkk01 going cold on the “risks” side has delayed getting a bike, for a bit.

Love the little Monster 696 – but it is just that, little. At 6’3″ a lot of bikes feel too small.

Tried a couple of Honda VTRs and came very close to buying one. Loved the V twin sound and the 1000cc lump wasn’t at all intimidating – but the bike still felt very small, except in tight and twisty roads were the weight (presumably) made it much more reluctant to turn in snappily compared to the GS500 I learnt on. I guess that’s why advice is to get a good bit of experience before getting a litre bike…

I think I’d be looking at F600 / 800 GS

Monsters are lovely little bikes: VERY light, easy to manage, stable handling, well made, reliable (if looked after, like all Dukes. You’re better with a higer milage and a full service book than a low milage and no history. Dukes need riding!)
Mrs PP had a Monster 695, which is a tiny little thing, and drop dead gorgeous to look at….I fell in love with my 696

Mrs PPs 695
They reall ARE tiny. Mrs PP isn’t short, but she could get her feet flat on the floor with her knees bent, it looked like a kid’s bike on her

Still flawlessly reliable too (touch wood). It’s been the perfect first bike really – very manageable, friendly handling, super light clutch for filtering and slow speed stuff. But at the same time quick enough and desirable enough to keep you interested for a while.

Only flaw really is that the low-ish riding position makes my knees ache after a few hours. Not a good enough reason to change it just yet, but I might start looking at taller (and more pillion-friendly) bikes next summer.

Simon, (I have a crap memory) are you the chap that bought on of our Monsters? Which one was it? 🙂

That’s right – the 695.

Hels keep em guessing lol a lot of racers don’t have full bike licences 🙂

CBT booked!! Think as most of you have suggested I’ll get straight on to the direct access and aim to get something more suitable for my size to get some experience on.
Hopefully by the time I’m ready to actually buy a bike I should have a bit more of a clue.

Like the look of the sv650 but not sure if it would feel a bit cramped with my size.
How do you all rate the FZS 600 Fazer? Like the look of it but like Hel’s i’m basing ths on the fact that it looks smart. No idea how suitable it would be

I am amazed at the size of the engines in bikes and the power outputs that seem to be de rigeur these days. They can’t be ridden above 70mph legally, so why? Are the riders unskilled and need the huge power outputs to make up for their deficiencies in maintaining a good average speed?

A Velocette with around 40bhp was capable of getting you around Loch Ness in under 70 minutes over 40 years ago.

A BMW R75 with 45bhp was capable of taking you and your gear touring round Oz well in excess of the limits.

Why power? Safer over taking is a huge bonus. Coming from someone who know’s **** all about bikes 😉

But realistically why do we need anything in life? You could say the same for nearly every car on the road.

By the way what MTB do you ride? I’m guessing its a fully rigid single speed. After all thats all you need….

gravitysucks – Member
Why power? Safer over taking is a huge bonus…

Yes, that’s probably a factor for people who can’t time their move or who can’t use their gearbox properly.

On the power thing – above about 50 bhp its all about ego and fun not utility. A 50 bhp bike will carry two folk and their luggage and still have enough power for A road overtakes. Similar to cars with over 100 bhp – there is no reason for it from a utility point of view. a 60 bhp car will take a family on holiday easily.

A motorcycle with over 100 bhp – almost impossible to use the power to the full on the road.

A cb 500 will do 0-60 in around 5 seconds

The Virsic road starts in Italy and enters Slovenia to follow the river Soca. To do the whole thing you need to hit italy. My old man nearly got shot when he forgot to stop at the italian border!!!

I’ll take your word for it, I started at Trieste airport and joined the road to the pass at Nova Gorica, I cycled past sleeping border gaurds!! Great place to visit. The cobbles on the hairpins on the other side made the trailer bounce a bit though, it seemed to worry the cars I was overtaking!!

Gravitysucks, bear in mind the 125’s are much harder and horrible to ride than the bigger bikes, doing my DAS and getting on a cb500 was like another world so much easier to ride. My F650 isnt as easy to ride due to being a fair bit taller and the very tall gearing that makes pootling through traffic a bit of a chore as you cant just leave it in second and chug about, its all fine now though a year and a bit on. I did crash it though after less than 15 miles when someone went into the back of me at a roundabout, whilst it wasnt my fault I did contribute by being a bit hesitant when a car changed its mind over where it was going.

I don’t really get you martin…

that was about 195 miles with no stops.amazing ride.had to go into reserve near the end.

What do you want me to do? Congratulate you because your tank is bigger than mine and I have to refill after 180? Unless you’ve misspelled the mileage and meant 295 miles which is about correct for an epic day.

Plus honestly do you really thing the picture of ONE hairpin is going to impress me?

You stick on TJ, but have you done the mileage he has? Did you rode a motorcycle all the way down to Moscow and back? Do it and come back and them you’ll be able to talk again. Plus you says 16000 miles in a few years… How many years is that exactly???

<hijack> Juan – I’ve finally managed to take some pics of the Mongoose. There’s no email addy in your profile though, can you mail me and I’ll send them to you (assuming you still want them!)

</hijack>

Ta

People get so worked up on here.

When I passed my direct access at 21 (5yrs ago) I had never even rode a motorbike, 2 weeks before passing my test was the first time I’d ever sat on a motorbike whilst taking my CBT.

My first bike was a YZF600 Thundercat which I bought 3 weeks after sitting on a motorbike for the first time. Since then I’ve had many sports bikes/superbikes. I can safely say that spouting on about how many hundreds of thousands of miles you have rode makes very little difference in the real world.

I ride with guys who have rode for 20 years and still supprise me with some of the dodgy manoeuvres they pull off!

Best advice would be not to get too excited regardless of how many HP’s your bike has. You could be sitting on a zzr1400 with 160HP’s and still ride sensibly.

I decided to sell my bikes about 3 months ago as they were not getting used. Low and behold 10 weeks later I’ve bought another. My current bike is now the least powerful bike i have ever owned (47hp) but it’s by far the most fun and has got me into more trouble than any other bike I’ve owned (don’t wheely past an unmarked police car, ever)

Oh and I only get 90miles out of my tank- do I get a prize?

Why are we dumping on Martin? I didn’t read his posts as boasts, just straightforward statements.

I know the roads that those 16,000 miles were done on, I think that makes him an experienced rider. Lots of narrow single lane roads, blind corners, no deviation, with often dangerous surfaces and plenty foul weather. Idiots quickly find the ditch.

(Unfortunately in summer, those roads are often populated by demented twits who have read about them in the latest copy of Superpenisbike and come up north to take advantage of the good hospital facilities we have here. So lads, please don’t come up here in summer on your motorbike because one of them may take you out.)

Juan, I don’t think the ability to ride to Moscow is a great achievement. It’s just a motorbike and a road after all.

Back in the 70s in Queensland, I was living out west in a mining area, and we were doing those sorts of distances in 1 or 2 days with most of it being on very rough outback dirt roads. None of my motorcycling friends over there would think anything of riding down from Cairns to Brisbane in one hit and that’s well over 1,000 miles. The next day would have them in Sydney or Melbourne. I’m pretty sure that sort of attitude to distance would be common in most Oz bikers who live out bush.

The distances covered doesn’t necessarily make you a better rider. It’s what’s between your ears that does that and I think that’s the point Martin was making.

epicyclo.

I made no personal attack on Martin. Please read the posts on the second page

The point is that Martin thinks it is Ok to learn to ride on a large sports bike, Those of us with experience know this is a bad idea.

It is not just about what is between the ears -thats the point. learning to ride on a big sports bike you never get anywere near the edge of its performance, Bikes handle differently at 3 / 10s than they do at 9/10s. The point is that when you need to performance you don’t have the skills to access it. Tightening bend, car on wrong side of the road, oil on road, that sort of thing. If you have larnt to ride on something of lower performance you have a better chance of lerning these skills

He is giving people dangerous advice and when challenged on it gets very aggressive and shouty.

Note that most of the experienced riders aggree that big sports bikes are a bad idea to learn on.

I know those roads as well – and I am certain that 16 000 miles on those roads over a few years means he is still inexperienced.

“|But I’m with TJ. Hving a big bike ‘just becasue’ isn’t the way to go IMO.”

I’ve got a balanced, blue printed, gasflowed and nitrous’d Vmax “just because” mind you, I’m a fuc*ing Idiot and don’t expect to live much longer.I ride more than 16,000 pa and have done for 20/30 years now & I still do stupid things that I dont reaise I’ve done till afterwards sometimes.

But you ain’t a newb jahwomble are you? I bet you didn’t have a bike like that to learn on

TJ, I’m not an advocate of big bikes for new riders but if a new rider has done 16,000 miles on those roads (including winter) on one without an off, then in my opinion they’re experienced.

I’ve seen what damage an idiot can do with the wrong bike. In Oz there was no limit on the size of the bike (70s) and learners were going out and buying what the magazines recommended – Mach IIIs, Mach IVs, early Suzuki GSXs – and maiming or killing themselves wholesale.

Still, it’s much better the idiots cull themselves on a motorbike than take 5 of their mates screaming with them in a car.

One year to get the experience, then you simply repeat it each year thereafter.

Maybe inexperience can be classed as being “a fuc*ing Idiot” on a bike, and experience is knowing when you are being “a fuc*ing Idiot” on a bike (and it’s great isn’t it 🙂 ).

epicyclo – Member

I’m not an advocate of big bikes for new riders

Is the ruddy point!

16 000 miles on a limited range of roads over a few years (so not many miles a year) is not experienced in my opinion.

What is it they say – “opinions are like arseholes – everyones got one?”

what’s this..? TJ talking sense and getting berated..?

change the record

ta for the tag whoever put it there

#
# TJ talks sense and gets ridiculed…AGAIN

juan.. you asked what roads i ride on. you asked this:

“Martin you say 16000 milles. How much it is in real mileage AKA out of motor and dual carriage way. When I give my mileage, I take out the commute to work as it’s motorway and town.”

Juan, I read the above in a non threatening way, yet you come down on me like a ton of bricks. why post these comments regarding the pics i posted and the size of my fuel tank ..about congratulating me on the fact that i dont have to refill as soon as you would etc? Think about it. was i boasting? yet again,no. If you think about the comment then you could find something in it to take the piss out of me even more but you failed to spot it.

A sportsbike like that having done that mileage on one tank around the gorms? do you get my point now? or will i have to explain the type of riding i was doing that day? yes, not anything to brag about. It was slow and steady. If i said i got 100 miles on a tank then that would be bragging about the speed and time i managed it in.

I posted some pics.you seem to have gone off on one and taken it like i was showing you some of the best hairpins and straights to ride on in Scotland. Why? They were only pics from some bike rides. calm down and enjoy the scenery, or mock it if thats what you feel like doing because thats the impression i get with the “call that a hairpin” comment.

You and tj have a fascination with this 16000 mile figure. its a rough mileage i have done since getting the bike.I would never dream of questioning or mocking someone over a mileage. Its the type of riding they have done that matters to me. Anyone can go on cruise control and do big mileage. I want to feel awake on the bike with troublesome roads ahead… not braindead wasting my life on euro runways. like i said with the weather last winter, the bike sat there for months and i havent been as keen to use it as when i first passed.you both seem to read this as if i am making out that i have done heaps of miles in the short time ive had it (not the case – its pretty low really)
and if you scroll up juan, you can read that i mentioned it because i am happy that ive managed to stay on the bike over that mileage.Not some cocky boast. Maybe you are used to that kind of thing on here but not everyone is like that.

Like Epicyclo says about the roads up here.They are a bit of a handful in places. Its not all about cornering too, the roads are a mess in places and choice of which brake to use in a split second can often mean staying on the road or not.Up here you often finish a ride questioning why it took over six hours to do a certain distance.. this is the reason why. The roads are brilliant in their own way. a real handful in places.. and one of the reasons why i have no intentions of riding to Moscow or anywhere in Europe. I havent ridden half of the roads around here and although a lot of them might be very rough and slow for hours on end.. they will keep me happy for years to come until i ride all of them and get bored. But will i live long enough to see them all?

Its nothing to do with experience. how many times have you crashed Juan? and you, Jeremy? I was speaking to someone earlier about this Jeremy. Do you remember the story you told us last year about the group ride you once went on? you mentioned something like 100+ riders. You started near the back of the pack and ended up something like 6th from the front. Riding a group ride and ending up there makes me wonder what the whole day out might have ended like if everyone on the ride had the same attitude and goal.Didnt some young guy get pushed past the limit and go off into a hedge?

You see, its not about experience (no really, its not. listen up and ponder this before rolling your eyes at that comment! If you are happy with the level you ride at wether its cruising along at low revs ,briskly riding along at mid revs, or hitting it off the limiter to get the most from the bike… as long as you enjoy what you do, you dont annoy other road users,cause accidents or have accidents,keep to the rules and get no speeding tickets then this is what matters. As long as you can complete your biking life with a good memory of what you have done, have no injuries.. then surely if we could all end a life of biking with this under our belts, we have all ridden well.

I wont be posting anything else on this but to look at the big picture.. its starting to look like some forum motorbike thread that we hear about where folk are reeling off how good they are. Its time to stop for me. its enough to put the OP off biking. Sorry mate!

I came to the thread to mention that i never regretted having bought a big bike after being told not to. Yet it went arse over tit and ended up in true STW fashion with childish comments on silly little things like my fuel tank size and a picture i posted of a hairpin on the bealach na ba.

Bonkers.

TandemJeremy – Member
…What is it they say – “opinions are like arseholes – everyones got one?”

… but do remember not to use your arsehole to spray shit over people.

lol.

Oh,and i just sussed out the number,epi!

Martin – my original post was in no way an attack on you – but you took it as such. Please go back and reread it.

Its nothing to do with experience

Its everything to do with experience. Experience develops the skills to get you out of difficult situations. Knowing where the limits are is important in doing this.

There is a huge gulf of misunderstanding here and I am sorry for that. I accept that I read you post as boasting when yo did not mean that. Plase try to consider that I wa not attacking you personally but [pointing out that I and most of the experienced bikers believe the route you have taken is a dangerous one – even if you ride slowly.

How amny times have I crashed – twice painfully as a cocky kid. Nothing but a couple of low speed tumbles since – and thats from my first bike in the 70s and many hundreds of thousands of miles.

I have to take you to task about a couple of things

you are mixing up two tales I told – the group ride one was to illustrate that its not about the bike – its the rider. One of the fastest riders was on a bike with 50 bhp. No one crashed on that ride.

The person who crashed was someone we overtook on another day – a newb on a big spots bike who crashed trying to keep up with us – people he did not know – he crashed out at under 50 mph simply because he did not have the skills to ride properly. He was not “pushed into crashing”

“But you ain’t a newb jahwomble are you? I bet you didn’t have a bike like that to learn on”

Well no…… I passed my test about a week after my seventeenth and that was thirty years ago now, and I ride every day all year round, I’m still a f**king idiot sometimes though, and did point out in my earlier post that I still make mistakes sometimes as well, and afterwards I can’t always tell whether it was experience or luck or a combination of the two that got ne through.

I was trying to agree with you but I had a mouthful of crisps and I’d had a few cans and I was distracted by something shiny on the other side of the room and it came out all glib & wrong, as it so often does in my case 🙂

Well martin I suggest you have a a look at the thread I have started in July. I ask you about where you ride because plenty seems to think that motorway or town riding is making you experience but it’s not. Town riding might makes you aware though. I still don’t get your comment about the 195 miles in one ride. Can you please explain that to me? If you think it’s an achievement, well sorry kiddo it ain’t. If you use it to tell me ‘look I can go very slow on my 160 bhp bike’. Well I am sorry but you’re overbike. I join TJ when he says bikes don’t handle the same at 3/10 and 9/10. I think I am getting close to 7/10-8/10 of mine. As I can’t quite corner on the footpeg each time I am working on it though. I just join TJ too when he says you don’t like to be challenged. He is a very experience rider. you may not like it, but he and PP are. And they both rode in the rain (so did I before you wonder). So I still don’t get the point you’ve try to make. Sorry.

How many time I have crashed. Once. School boy error but error non the less.
I probably have clocked the same amount of mileage than you over the last 2 and half year. However I wouldn’t say I am experienced, but you do. Why?
Well simply because my riding mates (both on mtb and motorcycle) are at least riding for about 20-25 years. And all of them agree that you shouldn’t start with a powerful bike. And all agree that 85 italian horses is enough. We are talking about people that can actually clock 160 kmH going up the “col de vars”. Or people like conan and olivier that have the group ride personal record of 17 cols and 1300 kms… In one day.

Hmm, I find myself half agreeing with TJ but…

“The point is that Martin thinks it is Ok to learn to ride on a large sports bike, Those of us with experience know this is a bad idea.”

I think I’d qualify as experienced- 70000 miles or so in all conditions on all flavours of road from motorway to dirt track, from 125 to 1300ccs, I’ve raced 600s and toured forn parts, made mistakes and learned from them… All that good stuff. But I don’t “know” anything about what will suit another rider I’ve never met.

But, I do know a good many people who’ve learned to ride on large sports bikes and been more than OK. One of the most skilled riders I know started on a 999. So to say you “know” it’s a bad idea and act as though you speak for everyone with experience is just beyond arrogance.

Perhaps it wouldn’t have worked for you. It wouldn’t have worked for me I’m sure. But it does work for some. I’d still recommend a smaller bike for various reasons, but I don’t claim to know what’s best for everyone. And real world experience proves that what TJ thinks everyone knows is just not true. Opinion dressed as facts is one thing, but personal opinion dressed as everyone else’s opinion is just poor play.

I think trying to apply arbitrary rules for who is “experienced” makes no sense btw, and really achieves nothing for the thread. The most experienced rider I know is also one of the most consistently s**t.