Scottish Independence… here we go a again :-)

Nah. Murdo Fraser had the right idea. He wanted to completely scrap the Scottish Conservatives (and replace them with a new Right Wing party).

If you asked them what nationality they were they would always say Borderer’s first then Scottish. Reminds me of that old Likely Lads sketch when Terry is talking about not liking Europeans then working his way North up the country to eventually his next door neighbour. We are a very stupid race.

And yet, not only did the SNP win an outright majority in a voting system specifically designed to prevent such a thing, but recent polling suggests that the SNP will win an even larger majority in the next Holyrood elections.

I have always leaned towards independence for my homeland,however increasingly a big reason for a yes vote from me is not based on any of the BS that either bitter together or smug Eck are spouting..It is the thought of the Government press conference the day after when a stern faced Cameron( who had a fright that his Father in Law might have taken a hit on his huge timber plantations up here)introduces a raft of measures that will make the way Thatcher treated Scotland look like the good old days,safe in the knowledge that we cannot do he-haw about it.

There is also the fact that because we don’t,and won’t vote for the Tories we will always be sucking hind tit…eg Major trading off a chunk of Spain’s oil seed rape grant for a chunk of the UK’s fishing quota and finishing the NE towns up here.

For a start the Spanish Constitution prevents any region from gaining independence.

This always strikes me as a strange argument, given that the act of union legislation clearly states:

That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and forever after be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain

Does “forever” no longer mean in eternity?

Well Duckman being in Europe does mean a bit of compromise, apprently there has to be gie and give in Euro negotiations. Salmond will find this when he negotiates the EU membership and Scotland’s entry into the Eurozone (as all new EU members are obliged to do). Bring it on I say you going to love it.

Zokes acts of parliament have regularly been repealed, abolished and just superseded by new legislation since parliament was created.
Further to that with a week being a long time in politcs you’ll find that eternity means two months and forever is a period of time slightly shorter than a ‘lifetime ‘guarantee lasts 😉

piemonster – Member

iirc the borders are a conservative stronghold in scotland

Aye, so much of a stronghold that it’s the one place we haven’t yet been able to run them out of- that’s where the one tory MP is. And he is an incredible bellend (“Massive sporting event taking place in my constituency and nominated for an award? I’ll throw my support behind one that’s taking place in England”).

Too much rugby I reckon, all brain damaged.

Further to that with a week being a long time in politcs you’ll find that eternity means two months and forever is a period of time slightly shorter than a ‘lifetime ‘guarantee lasts

😀

Scotland doesn’t meet the conditions for entry to the Eurozone.

Scotland doesn’t meet the conditions for entry to the Eurozone.

No EU for you then…

O rly?

You’d think David Cameron would want to have that confirmed by the EU and destroy a major plank of SNP policy then. 🙄

Well, if you don’t meet conditions for entry to the Eurozone, and entry to the EU is apparently contingent on using the Euro, then I can see a small problem.

If you had any responsibility at all for helping to negotiate the position then that might be a problem right enough. As you don’t, I think we can happily ignore your opinion.

And strangely enough i have never been in a chippy that selld deep fried mars bars.

I have – in Wales. Delicious it was, too 🙂

And yet, not only did the SNP win an outright majority in a voting system specifically designed to prevent such a thing, but recent polling suggests that the SNP will win an even larger majority in the next Holyrood elections.

There is a theory though that people vote significantly differently in other elections than in general ones. So don’t count on the same voting pattern being repeated when it’s for a full national government.

Indeed. The polls to which I refer assume election to a devolved, not independent, Scottish Government. I was merely pointing out that the experiences of inbred456 appear to be atypical. As I have already suggested, the success and make-up of Scottish political parties would likely go through a major upheaval post independence.

zokes – Member

Well, if you don’t meet conditions for entry to the Eurozone, and entry to the EU is apparently contingent on using the Euro, then I can see a small problem.

Do you actually believe that I wonder? Not meeting euro criteria is no barrier to EU entry, that’s basic stuff.

There’s at least 4 members that in theory have committed to join the euro but in practice have made little progress towards convergence and have never even set a deadline to convert. Sweden’s been in the EU for nearly 20 years but has no intention of joining the euro- they’ve effectively used the convergence criteria as a veto, which any other power can do, and this has been accepted by the EU. There’s no provision for a country that doesn’t join the euro to be kicked out or even censured in any way, and no requirement at all to progress towards convergence.

So all in all, see your post? No.

As Scotroutes says; the SNP are pretty much a single issue party, if they were to win I suspect that they,and Eck, would be about as popular as Winston Churchill after a war.

Don’t think that’s true tbh. Used to be, but the numbers suggest otherwise, support for the SNP is a lot stronger than the support for independence after all

Big Indifferent Land 3, Small Inexplicably Angry Land 2

Interesting. Were you previously a floater or more veering towards a no? I’m just wondering when and why you decided.

Actually, another thing that’s swayed my opinion are some of the posters on STW. Amusingly not those in the Yes camp.

Strachan then walked over to his car, brought out a sledgehammer and went berserk.

Hodgson added: “What’s the matter with him?”

😀

Having met Salmond, I’ve come to the conclusion that its quicker just to assume he’s lying and vote against whatever he’s in favour of. He really is quite detestable.

But having moved 20 years ago from Glasgow, the town of my birth, to Yorkshire, where both my sons were born, I don’t have to worry about voting for or against.

Now the real issue. I’d never heard of deep fried mars bars until I moved to England. And the first Scots chippy that I saw doing them was in Edinburgh near The Meadows.
This leads me to believe that the DFMB was invented to sell to English tourists and students.

Now deep fried pizza…

Alex Salmond is a slimy, odious, self-interested little opportunist! And therefore is the consummate politician. He’s the shrewdest political operator in the country by a mile!

And Call-me-Dave is the same gift-that-keeps-giving to Scottish independence as Ed Milliband is to the Tory’s

I don’t think there are any barriers to an independent Scotland joining the EU. IF there are then they would in effect apply to rump UK as well.

Scottish independence is about repealing the 1707 act of union which forms the UK which is the EU member. If the act is repealed the UK which joined the EU no longer exists and there are two successor states both of which automatically qualify for EU membership.

If Westminster somehow made it that Scotland was seceding from the Union and was internationally recognised as a new country and not a successor state then the EU membership argument might hold water – I for one could not see this happening for the simple reason that the rump UK would be left with Scotland’s share of the existing national debt where as a successor state would have to take their share and honour it.

The Tory’s what?

Not so sure on that. I reckon we’ll see Scotland as a new state with the rUK as the “continuing” state. Scotland will take its share of assets and liabilities. However, that’s not to say that the Spanish might want to see rUK also as a “new” state in order to give them leverage over Gibraltar.

Mind you, by 2016, who’s to say that rUK will want to be part of the EU?

I’m perfectly comfortable with the fact that Salmond’s a bit of a substandard human being, because so are all succesful politicians… So I judge him on how well he seems to be doing as first minister, which IMO is a lot better than any UK prime minister in my lifetime.

(have to say, Scotland seems to be blessed with good politicians, even the scottish tories are mostly fairly unpunchable. Or perhaps it’s more that we have better politics? Certainly westminster compares unfavourably in most ways. Are we more mature, or just less jaded?)

Scotland seems to be blessed with good politicians

Probably the best of the lot died tragically young

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smith_(Labour_Party_leader)

Duckman – you may have a point

Can I have an independent South Buckinghamshire? Those Berkshire berks are just too much, and as for Hertfordshire…..!

Duckman- Instead we got Blair. No comment required.

Duckman- Instead we got Blair. No comment required.

True, but before he became an unconvicted war crimminal, he did finally initiate devolution for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Of course you can argue that he did that to stop eroding votes to the Scot Nats, Plaid Cymru etc, but he was the one that fianlly saw it land on the statute books. Then again, he probably thought Labour would rule in Scotland forever, continuing their personal fiefdom.

I have no doubt that John Smith and Donald Dewar were very capable and sincere men, hell even Gordon Brown would qualify on that count, but like most parties, they are a den of vipers where party interest always comes first. Labour sat at the trough for many years and did little to curb Maggies excesses up here or anywhere.

Don’t get me wrong, the sun does not shine out of the SNP’s backside, they equally implement policies that are popular (minimum pricing, indendepence – maybe not), but much of their success appears to be reasonably good and honest government. That of course does not necessarily reflect in a majority for independence.

“As Scotroutes says; the SNP are pretty much a single issue party, if they were to win I suspect that they,and Eck, would be about as popular as Winston Churchill after a war.”

I’d want Salmond incharge if there had to negociations with the EU om membership. He is possibley the most able politician in the UK, he’d make a bloody good prime minister.

Northwind and binners are on the money here with comments on Salmond, who I am fortunate enough to have met. He is indeed a typically odious and self-serving politician; he is also the best leader that UK politics has seen for many years, being the only real Statesman that we have seen in a very long time. He has made a very good job of running this braw wee country these last few years and has pulled a fair team of folk around him. No-one is perfect, least of all a politician, yet if we want to improve life for the majority of hard working Scots (who in my part of the world are almost unanimously pro independance), we need strong willed politicians to rid us of the damaging selfishness of the far SE.
And don’t worry folks, we’ll continue to look after our trails and even allow you to come and play on them from time to time.

Salmond does indeed highlight the crushing beige-ness of our present politicians, and the self-interested neo-liberal consensus they all represent, every time he opens his mouth. A fact that he obviously loves! And turns to his advantage at every opportunity

we need strong willed politicians to rid us of the damaging selfishness of the far SE.

You, and everyone else outside the South East of England needs that! If you get independence then us lot in the North of England are well and truly screwed! We’re then doomed to eternal Tory government. We’d be effectively politically abandoned to our fate. We’re not far off it now. But a future of Tory hegemony would absolutely destroy the North.

binners – one for you?
A Kingdom divided: the prospects for Scottish Independence

Course you can ononeorange. Just ask Boris to have a word with cmd about the new airport there’s always a deal to be made

Scotroutes – thats a really interesting article! Cheers! Raises some very interesting points

Not least that Salmond has shown that what people throughout the whole country are crying out for is a credible alternative to the 2 party system, which serves the interest of virtually no-one except a narrow, rich elite. The leaders of the 2 major parties must surely know that if a credible alternative were offered, with the same political nouse shown by Salmond, then the electoral results would be the similar to those of the SNP north of the border. Who are now harnessing not just the votes of those wanting independence, but the huge amount of people who now feel totally politically disenfranchised

We’re then doomed to eternal Tory government

*Waits for somebody to post the “Scotland never decides and election” propaganda card