Scott Spark 10 (carbon) frame from 2008/9 – Bolts n' Washers Advice please!

Hi folks, advice required please!

Does anyone have a Scott Spark 10 (carbon) frame from 2008/9??

I have a second-hand frame. The bottom chainstay pivot (just above the bottom bracket) has been taken apart and put back together and contains what looks like 2 non-standard washers (copper on one side, aluminium on the other) between the seat tube and the chainstays. I know it has been taken apart as the pivot was put back in the wrong way aound, with the screw on the drive side when it is supposed to be one the non-drive side (discovered after much Googling). The screw was missing and a non-standard replacement has been used. The upper pivots are all fine and in good condition.

Now, I have spoken to Scott UK and a couple of dealers who all say I have to buy a complete kit (£72!!!) to replace the bolt. Tha tis not going to happen.

What I need to know is:

1. The bolt that goes into the pivot bar itself from the non-drive side is a gold torx bolt, is stamped with 2Nm torque on the side and has a large head. See pic (http://www.pedalator.com/VTT/inventaire/cadres/SCOTT/210427-222_main-pivot-axle-set-SPARK.jpg) I presume the head should be just large enough to cover the removable split circular metal inserts that sit inside the chainstay but not large enough to touch the carbon of the chainstay. Can anyone measure their bolt head diameter please and tell me what diameter head I need? I know it is M5 thread and about 12-15mm long.

2. Are there supposed to be any washers between seat tube and each chainstay, and if so, what type of washers are supposd to be used ? There is a small 1-2mm gap on each side where mud/grit could get in and directly attack the bearings, so I presume something is supposed to be in there, but I am not sure what they should be. I could do with outer diameter and material please.
The shock pivots have a nylon washer and an aluminium washer – is it the same for the bottom pivot?

Thanks in advance. I am away this w/e but will check replies when i get back

Mart.

Anyone?

I had a look at the old manual on their site after seeing your original post but it didn’t give the info other than the basic bolt diameter, suggest a mail to Scott EU if UK no use and they should help out

That is a good call dlr, I will try that.

I’ve got a Spark 30 in the garage, can’t promise anything but if I remember I’ll measure tonight for you.

Scott make significant use of chamfered washers on their pivots. IIRC these are used on the v1/v2 sparks linkage bearings, nowhere else

However, what you have on that generation frame main pivot is split spacers that slide over the main pivot “axle” and butt up to the inner race of the main pivot bearings.

Scott do have a special tool to set the ‘preload’ on these bearings, however if you’re reasonably creative, you can figure out a good way of centralising and preloading these split inserts wile you tighten the cinch bolts in the chainstay.
The split inserts both provide preload and stop the chainstay moving left/right relative to the front triangle.

There is NO washer required here.

Its entirely possible that I have a main pivot bolt somewhere.. finding it may pose a challenge!

If I find it, I’ll post details

Main pivot kit for 2007. 2008/9 added a torx end bolt that screwed into the end of the axle.

dble post

Thanks all, you are being a great help!!

Bearback, yes mine is the 2008/9 model with the torx end bolt (or not in my case), this is not quite the one in your picture, it is this one:

So, am I right that to service it prior to rebuild I should:
1. Take the main pivot out and regrease. Swap bearings if I can work out how to remove them. 🙄
2. Put a split insert into each bottom chainstay (why are there 3 in the pic above you posted?)
3. Slide the pivot bolt all the way through the chainstay, seat tube and other chain stay from the drive side.
4. Ensure everything is centralised
5. Tighten the bolt on each chainstay to 5Nm
6. Use my new M5 torx bolt and torque to 2Nm.

Is there anything else?

The torx bolt head diameter I presume should cover the split insert on the chainstay and no more so it doesn’t rub on the carbon of the chainstay. My best option so far is this (without using the removable shoulder):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131171500306?var=430391526542&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

which is M5, seems the right diameter and is stainless so should take a 2Nm torque in its stride.

Datsunman,

Did you get to measure the bolt head before Beer O’clock struck? 😉

Thanks in advance!

Technically you don’t need the torx head bolt. it serves only to give preload. You can achieve preload without, but yes, its nice to have it to keep everything together.

My pic.. no idea why 3 split collars are pictured. I remember 2.

In fact, can’t you use one of the linkage torx bolts to set preload?
They might be a smaller thread.. I have one in my hand, but not main pivit axle to test it in.

Best visual for you:
pivot

I’m working from memory as I’ve been through a few iterations of Spark and Genius since this version…

4. Ensure everything is centralised
5. Tighten the bolt on each chainstay to 5Nm
6. Use my new M5 torx bolt and torque to 2Nm.

5 and 6 are back to front. You want to preload the bearings with the torx bolt (or alternative) before cinching the system closed.

That is fab advice. Many thanks BearBack. I have the M5 bolt now from ebay – the head is exactly the same diameter as the upper linkage bolts so should be fine, I think.

One more question. Any idea how to remove the bearings for this lower pivot from the seat tube? They are blind so I cannot get behind the first one to get it out.. I can probably cobble something together with a threaded rod and some expanding nuts if nothing else, but wondered if there is a recognised technique for doing this?

Cheers

Martin

If I remember from having done mine, the sleeve (if present) between the two bearings moves just enough to give you access to the inner race in order to steadily and carefully drift them out with a flat screwdriver through from the opposite side.
Putting them back calls for ingenuity with threaded bar, large penny washers and a socket that will let you press them in using ONLY the outer race. One side at a time so you can keep them nice and straight on the way in

I will give that a go once I have sourced some new bearings. Many thanks BearBack, you’ve been very helpful.

Old bearing came out easily with a wooden dowel and plastic hammer. Come on Mr Postman!!!

New Enduro Max bearing went in with no probs using a couple of 22mm washers and my trusty headset threaded rod.
The Yamaha fairing bolt provided the preload with no probs and full bounce is now restored.

Many thanks to all esp BearBack for your suggestions

Mart.

I have the exact frame as this and need to replace the pivot bearings. My issue is getting the pivot axle out as without doing that I can’t get at the bearings. I’ve tried putting a bolt into the non-drive side and tapping with a rubber mallot but nothing is moving.

I don’t see how I can push the axle out as the chain stays are not flat making using a g clamp risky and the gear cable clip is in the way. How do people remove the axle????

Once you have loosened the bolts on each chainstay that fix the chainstays to the pivot axle, the pivot axle should just slide out. Is yours the mark I pivot bolt (206951 – see pics above) or the mark 2 (210427). Mine was a mark 2 and the pivot bolt only comes out one way. I completely remove the chainstays from the pivot, then undid and removed the preload bolt. Once the bolt was removed I pushed the axle out towards the drive side and it slid out easily. If it is jammed, you could lay the frame onto a couple of rolled up towels and give the end of the axle a sharp tap to release it.

Cheers

Martin

My axle has a torx bolt in the end which I have removed and slackened off the 2 chainstay clamp bolts. I guess that makes it the mark 2.

There’s nothing more I can undo and I’m thinking the axle has seized on the bearings as i can turn the whole axle with a bolt if i turn the bolt in the end of the axle.

I’ve already wacked the axle using a bolt in the end of the axle as the bit I am hitting with a rubber mallet and it’s not budging. As it’s a carbon frame I’m not sure I can hit it much harder without damaging anything.

Hmm, not sure I can advise you, crashmagnet.Mine was well greased when I took it apart and it just slid straight out. Can you make a wooden jig to support the frame on and use a large g-clamp to force it out slowly? If you are not keeping the bearings, you could try soaking with some lubricant, but it’d need to be carbon-friendly stuff.

I was going to go down the G clamp route which I have used for the other pivot bearings in the frame but the problem then is what to clamp against. As you know the drive side has no completely flat area to a put a socket etc on due to the cable bracket, I just can’t see how to do it.

Can you remove the chainstays completely? That was what I did and you then have the relatively flat sides of the bottom bracket area itself. You could make up a wooden bridge if necessary and clamp onto that. I suspect if you put some rubber (an old inner tube or similar) between the “feet” of the bridge and the frame you could clamp against it with no damage.
Is this the first time you have replaced the bearings?

I wouldn’t use a gclamp as you’ll deflect the carbon more than you realise.
Nows the time for careful application of wd40/pb blaster/penetrating oil to loosen the strangle hold between the bearing inner race and axle and upgrade from a rubber mallet to something that’ll provide impact force to break the bind. Small metal hammer perhaps.
Sadly you’re doing all this with the chainstay on as you need the axle out in order to remove.
If that fails then you’re probably going to have to sacrifice the axle and cut it out.
I would try….
Luggage straps either side of the axle against the front triangle/main pivot.
Penetrating lube into the axle/ bearing
Metal hammer to drift the axle whilst being suspended from the luggage strap.
Good luck maguiver!

BearBack is the Guru 🙂

I G clamped it in the end. I found a 16mm steel pipe with a 1mm wall thickness and cut a small section. I notched out a small piece to avoid the cable guide and g clamped it across.

hopefully I haven’t damaged anything although the frame is pretty beaten up.

Nice one. Perseverence wins through again!