Not going to happen – unless Johnson, at some future time in his premiership, is under pressure and his position is under threat.
Referendums/referenda – for the classicists or pedants.

I’ll stick my neck out and say that 2020 is too soon, there’s at least one other major thing to get out of the way before it should be looked at. Once the dust has settled, then lets look at ref2. OTOH I get that she’s attempting to strike whilst the iron’s hot

Exactly, if they wanted a proper debate and chance to sort it “for a generation” then they’d wait until there was a stable status quo to compare against. Hold it this year and next parliament you can have another referendum once Brexit has become whatever you said/didnt say it is/isnt/whatever.

Referendums is perfectly correct

Well, that’s just what somebody with a pro-Boris agendum would say.

It’s what anyone who knows what a gerund is would say.

Referenda surely!

Referendums is perfectly correct.

Well, that’s what someone with a pro-Boris agendum would say.

It’s what anyone who knows what a gerund is would say.

It looks like a 2 year old attempted to forge his signature.
Can’t even write, he is totally unfit to be PM.

It looks like a 2 year old attempted to forge his signature.

Well, it could be worse….

tjagain

Member
Referenda surely!

If you speak latin, mibbe. 😆

Referendums and referenda are both acceptable – well as words anyway.

Have a Thatcher quote to pour oil on troubled flames.

As a nation, [the Scots] have an undoubted right to national self-determination; thus far they have exercised that right by joining and remaining in the Union. Should they determine on independence no English party or politician would stand in their way.

Thatcher, Margaret. The Downing Street Years. London: Harper Press, 1993. 624; ch. 20. Print.

It’s what anyone who knows what a gerund is would say

Whoosh.

I’ll stick my neck out and say that 2020 is too soon, there’s at least one other major thing to get out of the way before it should be looked at. Once the dust has settled, then lets look at ref2. OTOH I get that she’s attempting to strike whilst the iron’s hot

My thoughts exactly. What’s the rush, we’ve been in the union for long enough another few years won’t matter. I’d rather wait to see what my choices are before jumping ship.

And if sturgeon is so sure brexit will be a disaster then why not wait and see. Then once she’s proven correct we’ll all be desperate for independence. Me included..

whoosh

No – agendum and agenda are derived from gerundives, there is a possibility that referendum could also be a gerundive (in neuter form) but that would mean that referenda would mean a vote on a number of things, not multiple votes hence the preference of the OED for referendums as a plural.

Boris is lying. Again.

There is no mention of any such clause in the Edinburgh Agreement for the referendum.

Can anyone provide a link as to when this “personal promise” was made?

If an offhand remark is to be taken as law, then surely Boris should be dead in a ditch.

Can anyone provide a link as to when this “personal promise” was made?

It’s mentioned twice in the white paper, first couple of pages. More of a motivational tactic pre ref than anything else, but it’s there. As well as salmond saying it in an interview.

There’s heehaw legal about it, but we’re stuck with getting it shoved in our face.

Wow, even Labour are getting in on the totalitarian angle.

Lisa Nandy who’s aiming to be Labour leader reckons the Spanish treatment of Catalonia is a model Westminster should follow.

So she’s ok with the police attacking voters at the polling stations and independence supporting politicians being jailed.

If that’s a potential Labour leader, WTF has happened to the Labour Party?

It’s another brick in the wall.

I’m convinced Boris wants Scotland Independant.

It’s all a win for him, keep telling us naw, appeases all the Tory buffoons/unionist UJ wavers, keeps them all onside, pisses off everyone else by treating us like a child and eventually garnering enough support to vote yes, then his beloved Jerusalem is out of Europe, rid of the non-value adding Scots, and the Tories will be in power in the green and pleasant lands for an eternity.

We can only hope.

The only problem is Nobeer, they need the natural resources, and they aren’t quite exhausted yet.

They can have the bloody oil.

Lisa Nandy who’s aiming to be Labour leader reckons the Spanish treatment of Catalonia is a model Westminster should follow.

There is a fair amount of truly unpleasant (and long standing) nationalism on both the Spanish and Catalan sides of the argument here. Is the Scotland/UK situation really comparable?

@koldun That’s a question that Lisa Nandy should have asked herself before being interviewed. The fact that she didn’t tells us a lot about what she thinks about Scots and Scotland.

I was also wondering if the West Lothian question is about to be reversed – a kind of East Lothian question.

The withdrawal bill will allow the UK government to operate or legislate in what are currently completely devolved areas with out reference to the devolved administration.

Would Boris be able to pass legislation at Westminster for England via EVEL and then enact the legislation in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland?

Interesting potential tactic (copied from a FB post):

By clause 38 in withdrawal agreement the act of union 1707 will be null and void at 23:01, on the 31st Jan as clause 38 declares the UK parliament is sovereign which goes into Scots law and legal system and any interference by 3ngland in Scottish law or legal system automatically dissolves the act of union wasn’t that stated we couldn’t touch each others legal set up

When the banks can no longer get access to the EU from brexit london but can from eu iScotland then of course some will relocate. Easier than going to Germany or Ireland

the north sea oil makes a big difference to the UK balance of payment and thus to the value of the £

I do love the english folk on here explaining to the scots why independence does not matter.

As for the “punching above their weight / overinflated sense of importance” again utter nonsense regarding scotland. This is one of the drivers for independence. When during the last ref campaign we were told that we would have no more influence than Finland we all shrugged and said – “thats about right”

Do not push your english fallacies onto scotland. There is no desire to “punch above our weight” We want to get on with being “the best wee country in the world” not pretend to be a billy big pants on the world stage.

Its coming – and sooner than you think. the next holyrood election will be in effect referendum on independence

I’m not sure what the point of this is right now other than to make a point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51284836

Guess we’ll find out tomorrow when she tells us what the grand plan is.

Getting some positive vibes in the bank before the unedifying spectacle of the former First Minister in court charged with sex pestery?

hels
Getting some positive vibes in the bank before the unedifying spectacle of the former First Minister in court charged with sex pestery?

Maybe so. It’s bound to get some lurid reporting in the MSM. A juicy tidbit to bash the SNP with.

However he’s no longer a member of the SNP or in a position of power, and the SNP are only a part of the independence movement so I’m not sure of its relevance to independence.

Also (I may have this wrong) but the timetable would mean it’s more than 6 months before a referendum could be mounted, so any brouhaha about Salmond would be over and done with, and the effects of Brexit starting to bite.

I’m not sure what the point of this is

My guess is that they don’t want to get on with the day job of running the country properly, and prefer to waste their time on this fruitless exercise.

This is the kind of nonsense that will really put of undecided voters like me

Its not that – and actually they are doing a decent job of the day job

the problem for Sturgeon is keeping the “independence now” people on side as well as the “wait and see” people.

She is under huge pressure to do something NOW! I do suspect there is some trickery waiting in the wings. I hope so or else she will be called out for it from both sides. Keeping both sides happy is tricky and risks just making both sides unhappy.

Couple of items:

The Queen has signed off on the Referendums (Scotland) Bill, so it is now Scots Law.

The EU is going to consider a Scottish petition about retaining our rights as EU citizens.

https://newsnet.scot/news-analysis/breaking-equality-nation-gains-right-to-petition-eu-parliament-on-scotlands-future/?fbclid=IwAR1YlhJd2mcKjieR5YLPy_Rlfu693cFduZ9pZkJumgMrGLRDN1xVJkw-s9Q

tpbiker
This is the kind of nonsense that will really put of undecided voters like me

Really? I thought you were the sort of person who would look deeper than the superficial. I just regarded it as them trying to pin-prick the Tories and of no great significance.
Others regard it as making a gesture to the EU that Scotland is not going willingly.

Nicola Sturgeon getting some real pelters on Twitter at the moment for her lack of direction and failed leadership. I wonder if she’ll soon decide to step down to spend more time with her (soon to be Ex?) husband.

Nicola Sturgeon getting some real pelters on Twitter at the moment for her lack of direction and failed leadership. I wonder if she’ll soon decide to step down to spend more time with her (soon to be Ex?) husband

By the yoons

If you support independence who else are you going to vote for? I think she’s pretty safe to say and do what she wants. There’s no group that advocates a more radical approach for indy supporters to vote for.

Yet.

There’s no group that advocates a more radical approach for indy supporters to vote for.

There is a vocal minority on Twitter etc who scream “INDY NOW” or suggest daft things like a UDI.

They don’t realise it’s a chess game. Sturgeon is playing it perfectly and getting all the pieces in the right places.

Labour plumbing the depths,

If Richard Leonard isn’t on the SNP payroll, he’s being done out of a fortune

There must be some competence in Scottish Labour, surely????

Whoever wins the Labour leadership needs to invest in developing policies with the party in Scotland and getting competence on the ballot sheet for the Holyrood elections.

BruceWee
If you support independence who else are you going to vote for?

Looks like the Greens are going to benefit. There’s a lot of very unhappy people out there.

On the face of it, there is nothing wrong with her tactics of allowing demand for independence to grow, but that is supposing she was facing an ethical opponent.

It’s best to get into the lifeboat before the ship sinks, and right now it has a bloody great hole in it.

Just one more mandate,

Give it to me.

Just don’t expect

To be set free

I think the competent tactical statesman act works better when you’ve got a militant lunatic jumping around in the background threatening to burn the place down.

Craig Murray should start his own party on a platform of UDI followed by a swift pre-emptive invasion of England.

amazing 🙂