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Things are progressing.
In the meantime let's not sit back.
PDMTD has a club affiliation form on the website - it was requested by a couple of clubs on FB, if anyone is a member of or knows members of a club who ride the Peak their support would be very welcome:
[url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/affilitate-with-us ]http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/affilitate-with-us[/url]
Great news, wiggle are now helping to increase exposure on this issue. This is really gaining some momentum.
[url= http://blog.wiggle.com/2014/11/07/opinion-peak-district-trail-works-a-cause-for-concern/ ]linky[/url]
great news Onza 😀
Right, we're 23 pages in, so a couple of things.
Firstly thank you to PBMTB, ride Sheffield, @keeperofthepeak and everyone else who's engaged with this.
As PDMTB seem to have the lead on this, what do you want the rest of us to do? As has been said we need a United voice so let's get that coordinated.
If it's a question of continuing to post bomb DCC Facebook page so be it, if it's emails to individuals let's get a list of who. I know it's in the thread somewhere but a reminder of the most recent contacts, and who does what would be good.
Do we need to write to both our own MP and the local MP?
I raise this as so much brilliant hard work has been done it would be a shame to undo something with a clumsy contact or a misguided communication.
Good questions MartynS. I'd like to know the answer to those questions as well. Keen to do my bit, and I am enjoying my regular bombs of the DCC facebook page.
Also, this protest ride on the 22nd, what's the plan? I don't know how to say this without it sounding critical, I don't want it to, but how is that protest ride going to differ from, say "a pootle"? I'd hate to protest and not have anyone notice.
I'm always up for a ride but what bit of it is the protest?
Martin, Steve, I can't commend your enthusiasm enough! There's a few things I can see going on here that are really helping
1. Membership and recruiting others. The more members Ride Sheffield, Peak MTB and kofthep have the greater the mandate. The progress has come from the deafening 'roar' from everyone. We can always get louder though.
2. Get on to your horse riding and walking friends. We need them on board too. The mountain bikers, conservationists, authorities, mountaineering groups and others are in. They're missing the party!
3. Thought about joining the ramblers association at all.....?
As far as i know, the protest ride is on the 22nd. DCC are on about returning to the track on the 17th
Is it worth asking the Mountain Rescue Teams for their opinions. Do they think the smoother tracks will lead to an increase in speed and therefore an increase in severity/number of injuries?
Do they think it will lead to them getting called out more?
If it goes lead to an increase of inexperienced users, are they concerned that this will again increase the load placed on their services?
They're on the list
http://ctc-rtr-sheffield-tro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/use-of-byways-by-motor-vehicles.html?m=1
I have contacted the CTC to ask if this is representative of their views on such work / vandalism or if their Sheffield spokesperson is alone in describing mountainbikers as arrogant and elitist
I've also pointed them in the direction of PDMTB and ride Sheffield websites so they can hopefully issue a more researched statement than Mr Geller has
However, their relevant CTC rep has issued a far more reasoned response
Have we approached him to put his / ctc's name on the group letter of response?
Annoyingly I'm working on the day of the protest ride. However - would it not be more effective to protest on the 22nd outside the DCC offices in Matlock and around the town on a busy Saturday with shouting, placards and clanging of used bike bits? I know the riding isn't that technical but neither will Rushup Edge be if they're starting again on the 17th!.
It may get more attention than a protest in the quiet unspoilt (ahem) countryside?
CTC have emailed me this morning, they want to chat and are ok with the approach PDMTB & RS has taken so far - let's play nicely and we may be able to add them to our letter - I hope to speak to their rep on Monday. Will report back.
I was about to add my comments to Simon's blog but maybe best to leave him alone to lick his wounds. This could be the chance ctc need to be seen as worthwhile by mountain bikers and we can all move forward as "cyclists" with a single voice.
Hear hear
The council offices in Matlock are at the top of the hill, the town centre at the bottom. Knowing how many shop in Matlock, the protest would me more successful at Rushap Edge
Congestion around the matlock council office on a Monday morning at rush hour would certainly get noticed.
DCC they do consult (if you live in the Hope Valley)
Onzadog - absolutely
Woody21- yes, and in the middle of us discussin the first phase they started work and wasted £250k on what you see there now.
Ouch - they're not very good at consulting or taking advice
I have had a reply fro. Andrew Bingham's office saying they cannot deal wit my complaint as I am not a constituent but that "quite a number of other people" had been in contact and that he is looking into the matter.
Meanwhile I suspect DCC are fobbing you off by saying complaints should be made through the LAF. That is just an advisory body and in any case has no remit to look into individual problems over access. Nor, as far as I know, would it advise on highway matters as a matter of routine.
Is anyone in a position to press DCC on why they need an emergency notice? There are other types of notice they could have used. We need to know the nature of the emergency which justifies this particular type of notice.
Legally, each local authority has to have someone who acts as a "Traffic Manager" even if that's not the title the go by. The traffic manager should be able to answer that question.
Hi Neil,
We met with Andrew Bingham today. He was surprisingly well informed (thanks to people like yourselves). He had already written to DCC as he was "very cross" about the matter. He is going to chase their response and speak to Jim Dixon at Peak Park. He was interested to hear what we had to say and we have and are continuing to provide him with further ammunition. I believe he is supportive of our overall aims, an is particularly interested in the amount being spent on the works. He is also aware of the time pressures (i.e. the 17th of November notice).
So thanks for writing, I believe it has certainly helped as he was supportive from the off. We are also contacting other local MPs. Watching this space.
evh22, that does sound promising. Thank you and well done to all who were instrumental in that.
That does sound promising, thanks for speaking to him. Good work.
Good to see Dan's input at the bottom of that CTC blog.
It's just a shame that CTC don't make it a bit more obvious that they are at least aware of what's going on.
We have been asked by a couple of MTB Clubs and MTB sections of road clubs if they could affiliate to PDMTB to show support, the answers is a very big yes we would love you to. So, the geeks have set up an affiliation form on the website here: http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/affilitate-with-us
One of the most frustrating things about this is the amount of badly needed cycling connections that could be built by DCC if they weren't wasting the funds on stuff like this.
Anyone with a bit of local knowledge can confirm that most of the cycle routes outlined in the 1998 E.Derbyshire greenway strategy remain unbuilt some 16 years later.
The plan can be seen here
http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/countryside/access/greenways/strategies/
DCC cite lack of access to dedicated cycle funding as the reason for slow progress. This is quite understandable and unlikely to improve any time soon given the recent department for transport "cycling delivery plan" which failed to guarantee predictable or continuous funding for cycling.
I would like to know how much this work has cost, where the money came from and who prioritised this work above competing requirements.
I can understand the circular routes around ladybower / derwent / howden being resurfaced due to "access for all" but Rushup Edge???
Onzadog - MemberIs it worth asking the Mountain Rescue Teams for their opinions.
Pook - Member
They're on the list
I raised this at our last team meeting, which sadly I couldn't attend, so I'm going off 2nd hand info. It was considered that this wasn't something our team should have an opinion on. Though Rushup Edge isn't on our "patch", there was a sense that regardless, what DCC get up to just wasn't anything to do with MR.
You may have better luck with the PDMRO rather than going to specific teams. They have a meeting on the 12th, so you will need to be quick if you want it discussing soon, otherwise you'll be waiting a few months!
[url=mailto:pdmro@mountain.rescue.org.uk]pdmro@mountain.rescue.org.uk[/url]
[url=mailto:secretary@pdmro.org.uk]secretary@pdmro.org.uk[/url]
[url= http://pdmro.org.uk/ ]http://pdmro.org.uk/[/url]
i should be wary of a love in with some horse riding chums.. some local groups are stringently against ALL wheeled access on bridlways and one very powerful well funded highly motivated groups stated aim is to close all green lanes/ bridleways to all but original user groups and have a target of within 10 years. this group and others worked long and hard and took the council to court to close many historic green lanes on the premise of quiet enjoyment of the national park..
In the same way that we wouldn't wish to be judged alongside everyone who rides a bike in the Peak District, we clearly can't lump all horse riders together. As in all walks of life, there's the good and the bad. If we can form alliances with the good, then that should be encouraged.
The current battle is not about access but about what constitutes an acceptable "repair" and the level of consultation with users. Anyone who feels that rushup edge has been over repaired and under consulted is an ally and should be wellcomed with open arms.
CALL TO ACTION: RUSHUP CONSULTATION SURVEY
We've prepared a survey to gather data on the DCC consultation and works on Rushup Edge. DCC are due to start work again next Monday so please respond and circulate ASAP to mountain bikers, walkers, horse riders and anyone else who can spare 5 minutes to fill it in.
More info on the [url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/50-survey-rushup-edge-consultation ]website[/url] or click directly though to the survey here:
[url= https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/WFRDKK9 ]https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/WFRDKK9[/url]
Done. Survey glitched about halfway through, though, repeating a couple of the questions, and one of the questions (Q18) about consultation didn't feel quite right in terms of the answer choices.
Should probably stick it on a separate thread to get more attention.
Done, had the same issue of questions repeating.
Shared on my Facebook timeline for riding buddies to see.
Looks like DCC have had a cabinet re-shuffle.
Counciller Dean Collins in now in charge of highways.
Might be worth an initial contact by PDMTB @KOTP etc.
Remember he's new, and there is going to be an election in the next 18-24 months!!
Just re-checked the survey and found no duplicate questions. There are 2 [i]similar[/i] questions but one relates to how the work will change your [i]use[/i] of the track and the other is how it will affect your [i]enjoyment[/i].
They could have been worded more clearly, but they are different questions.
Sorry fella, but it repeated a page for me as well, it was defiantly the same q's
Done. As above, one page repeats.
Baffled. I have no repeats when I do it. What pages are repeating?
Just received DCC's email re the Cabinet Reshuffle - Councillor Dean Collins will be contacted shortly. Thanks for the heads up MartynS.
I stand corrected
Pook, it was definitely a repeat of the questions. The slightly different wording is repeated.
It looks like the repeating questions is a glitch we can do nothing about, perhaps due to the device you do the survey on. I've checked the survey preview and taken the survey myself and have no repeating questions.
I've checked the results collected so far and there is no duplication of question there, so whatever the problem it's not affecting the final analysis.
I've had the repeating questions glitch on my PC = Win7, chrome browser. Going back a page then forward sorted it. edit - in my case it was questions 7, 8 and 9 I think - the question about enjoyment of the sunken track then *use* of the sunken track, then use of the paths above the sunken track
same here
Great job otherwise!
AS above, use/enjoyment of the track questions repeated, but when I went back to check and then forward again, the sequence was correct. Firefox and Windows...
I'd imagine the results are already painting a pretty clear picture.
There is a little bit of a conflict regarding use of the resurfaced path in some respects in the survey questioning. The work will certainly discourage me to use the bridleway and if I'm to do the Hope/Hollins Cross/Rushup/Jacobs loop I will be massively "encouraged" to use the illegal top path. SO I can answer "extremely discouraged" to the bridleway usage and "extremely encouraged2 to the illegal path usage.
Since Chapel Gate was resurfaced I've never used it. Rushup is harder to cut out of loop planning so it's certainly more likely to result in illegal usage.
From a walkers perspective and hike including Rushup is going to be quite a long one so the rock steps where a non issue as the walk would only be taken on by the fitter/more active/more able walker. Also as a walker there is more of a view from the illegal path, IMO it is that which encourages walkers to use it rather than the rocky nature of the path.
Why is that a conflict Jambalaya?
I'm very less likely to use the route now it's been resurfaced, but on the rare occasions I will, I'll most deffinately use the side trail. So, less legitimate use than before and more illegitimate use.
Is the area on the bank above the sunken road 'illegal' as such or just something formed from shared use by all? Is it marked as a footpath?
I've completed the survey.
Technically it's trespass.
Which is a civil issue, not a criminal one. However, if the works would cause an issue for the landowner, they may well have grounds to object as well.
Thinking of who does or doesn't object, has anyone contacted any groups representing disabled access? DCC are claiming one of their drivers is access for all but is there a body representing disabled user interests and how do they feel about trails being leveled, allegedly in their name. I think we might be pleasantly surprised by the response.
@Onzadog - I would suspect that the dramatic cuts to support services for the disabled as part of DCC's £157m reduction in costs will figure a little higher on the priority list of most than would access to a high moorland trail.
The upper illegal track has been there for the 16 years or so I've been enjoying the outdoors in that area. As mentioned before, the sunken track has barely changed if at all in those 16 years.
I too will start to use the illegal higher track if these works continue and the track is flattened.
@Roger, that's my point. I'd wager that disabled access groups are probably realistic enough to see that there's no benefit to rushup edge being levelled in their name. If they came on side with us it would be a massive coup and blow one of dcc's main arguments clean out of the water.
Can we not use the legal / ilegal argument in the context of the side path. The landowner may have taken issue with DCC but it could just as easy be another DCC red herring.
One of the others is the diversity argument - last time I looked equal ops covered much more than physical ability.
Some reading from IPROW on rights of way widths:
http://www.iprow.co.uk/gpg/index.php/Widths
Survey done.
As a member of one of the local MR teams, whilst privately individual members might be 'up in arms'about this trail destruction, unless it impacts upon teams ability to operate, then individual teams, and our regional body will be unlikely to pass comment. If trail works stopped a team deploying a land rover up the track then yes they would complain. Teams generally do not criticise anybody requiring our services publicly; we all started off in the outdoors with minimal kit, and skills. Some off us take massive risks when we go out to play too. So whether trail 'improvements' (surely an oxymoron) increase speed and accidents,who knows? (Obviously there is a clearly established correlation between speed/mechanism of injury and severity of injury.) That correlation, not withstanding, regional statistics would have to be gathered before and after, and even then it would be very tricky to directly state how much the state of the trail played a part in the incident.
13 years of MR serice I can think of less than a handful of bike related incidents on this bit of trail.
[quote=radar a dit]Obviously there is a clearly established correlation between speed/mechanism of injury and severity of injury.
this is the very reason for the development of our network of trail centres. Inappropriate speed on poorly surfaced forest trails around CYB lead to several injuries as people quite simply lost control and crashed when they were unable to brake safely. This lead to the development of tighter, twister trails with a less even surface where the speed of riders could be controlled and limited while still provoding a challenge. I realise that the council does not want to create a trail centre (and nor should they) but in creating a smooth, wide track they are leaving themselves wide open to claims of negligence should (god forbid) any serious injuries occur
actually it may be a little late for that, wasn't there a biker helicoptered off the (newly-resurfaced) Stanage Causeway recently after he hit a new waterbar? Hope he's ok
Survey issues: I am going to contact the survey monkey admin about this. I know why the problem has happened but don't want to fix it if I run the risk of upsetting the survey and it doesn't change the overall results . Over 600 replies so far.
Rushup Edge – Update
Peak District MTB (PDMTB) and Ride Sheffield (RS) members have been instrumental in persuading Derbyshire County Council that they must listen to the mountain bike community. On Friday, we were contacted by DCC offering a meeting on December 2nd along with the the BMC, Friends of the Peak District/CPRE and Keeper of the Peak, co-signatories of last week's Open Letter. Anxious that the meeting should be conducted in the correct spirit, PDMTB and RS pressed DCC that no work should recommence on Rushup Edge until after the meeting. DCC have demonstrated admirable good faith by agreeing to a cessation of works until December 8th at the earliest.
This excellent result would not have been possible without the hard work of mountain bikers right across the Peak District, Sheffield and beyond. The letters, emails, tweets and phone calls have borne fruit and it is testament to the power of our arguments that we haven't been ignored.
Email confirmation of the cessation and details of the closure were received at PDMTB HQ today (12 Nov 2014)
Further to our telephone conversation this is a quick note to confirm that works are suspended until 9th December 2014 on the route. The route is currently closed by emergency order for 3 weeks after which a temporary closure will be implemented for a period of up to 3 months to allow works to be completed. If you need any further information please get in contact.
Regards,
Richard Bonner, Assistant Head of Countryside Service, Economy, Transport and Environment Department, Derbyshire County Council
Of course, this isn't the end of the affair. We have to see Rushup Edge reinstated to its former glory and secure genuine consultation in the future, nothing less. Rest assured, PDMTB, RS, the BMC, Friends of the Peak District/CPRE and Keeper of the Peak will continue to fight your corner.
To help us do that, please complete the survey - http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/50-survey-rushup-edge-consultation
Thanks
Well done to all who were involved directly or indirectly.
Fingers crossed that this is the start of change. Let's also not get too cynical about this meeting and keep our optimistic heads on.
Survey done keep up the good work
Great news. Just goes to show what reasoned argument and a social media shitstorm can do!
Aye, congrats all round.
Now for the hard part. 😆
is it just me.. but is there not an issue here.. great the work has stopped so the route is preserved as is for the immediate future.. however the route is now closed until dec 9th at the earliest.
these folks are slippy customers be careful what you wish for the trail is now closed and will be for an undefined period
Yes - that's as may be so. But they can't close it indefinitely and looking at the longer term the campaign has got mountain bikers a seat at a table they simply didn't have before.
If DCC are good to their word they'll listen to the group. If they aren't, there will be no change from their original plan.
I'm being optimistic. If a temporary closure on Rushup means that DCC consult properly with mountain bikers (and more groups) and we end up with high quality maintenance and repair like we see on the roych that can only be a good thing
I know a few people, including me, are questioning the validity of the notice, particularly its emergency nature.
What I did find interesting when asking about the notice is how the highways section were very keen to distance themselves from this order and explained how it was very much a rights of way issue. The reason I find that interesting is that in the original copy and paste responses from the rights of way section, they came across as being keen to include their works and intentions within the wider highways remit.
In terms of the order being currently in force, to use the official BOAT would be a contravention of the order and could possibly be seen as criminal although I've no idea what the penalty would be.
DCC were keen to point out that the track up on the bank was not part of the right of way. Therefore, it connot be covered by this order and to use it would remain a civil issue with the land owner.
However, as there seems to be some movement in a positive direction, I'm sure it would be in everyone's interests to play nicely for the time being.
Presumably the contractors are now charging for delays
Which hopefully might eat up some of the budget for this and future byway maintenance works
Direct Labour I believe so although they will charge the rights of way department, it's not real money.
Yep, it was DCC guys up there when I met them 24 pages ago!
@Onzadog - if we can play nice for a bit that would be appreciated, it's not perfect but Pook has lent me his spare rose tinted spectacles for a couple of weeks so let's see what happens at the meeting.
Well done to all concerned so far. This shows the benefits of having an organised and vocal group.
I guess that in the past council employees thought that the easiest option was to push works through and deal with the fallout later as it'll only be minor.
What they now must realise is that the easiest option is to consult and work with the various user groups as the fallout is potentially huge.
Still a long way to go, but this is promising. Perhaps something good is going to come from all of this?
its all very well and good they have postponed it, and going forward its great (hopefully) for future things like this to NOT happen
but the damage is done, how on earth can they reinstate it to what it was before?
it was natural and been like that for ages, even if they put slabs in its not going to be anything like it was before
they've ruined it, and the only good thing about all the uproar is hopefully the future of other paths will be considered before demolishing naturally beautiful pieces of the peak district
🙁
still makes me mad
While unlikely, it's not impossible for them to take the aggregate away and leave it as it was.
Well done everyone, keep up the great work. I'm far from local but have ridden in the area a few times and, I've done the questionnaire and have been following.
Fingers crossed you can get them to back track and get it back to what it was. Not sure if anyone else has suggested it but perhaps the offer of a working part to help clean up their mess to help save them some money would help. Although I'm hundreds of miles away I'd be tempted to lend a hand if I could make it.
Good call, I'd be up for a working party and know a few others who would as well.
I doubt they would go for something like that
Health and safety innit