Rishi! Sunak!

Ironically I think it’s the state of the roads that’s starting to filter through to the Tory heartlands that repeated cuts to public spending do have consequences

Very much being saying this for years and I think previously on this thread. It’s one of the tangible effects of public spending reductions

The last time the roads were this bad was 97, and we all know what happened that year

Protect the NHS, fix potholes. Stay in power for ever

It seems so simple but if you do good, compassionate government, maybe you can be in power for ever.

Somewhere to live, somewhere to work, someone to love. That’s it’s, that’s my manifesto . Plus some guff about free healthcare

This is why this latest defection should have been flat-out rejected by Starmer. This doctor mp should have been told to either resign or be an independent for the remainder of his term. Feigning a conscience at this point after sitting mute for year upon year of your party abusing the country is clearly bullshit, and it offers no benefit to Labour to welcome these rats onto their benches.

Absolutely this but Shadow Health minister Wes Streeting was on the radio this morning saying how wonderful it was that this Dr bloke was coming to Labour. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well it helps me.
A rather Tory attitude if ever I heard one.

Good point, well made.

Though we all have to find our own way with coping with the chaos the Tories have unleashed on all our lives.

Remember the last time that a load of people put their cross in a particular box ‘for a laugh’?

June 23rd 2016

Unintended consequences and all that! Those who do not learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them

Remember the last time that a load of people put their cross in a particular box ‘for a laugh’?

With hilarious consequences!

Absolutely this but Shadow Health minister Wes Streeting was on the radio this morning saying how wonderful it was that this Dr bloke was coming to Labour.

It’s a Westminster bubble thing. They see only a way to slightly increase the fleeting political damage the defection of a nobody will cause. And they minimise the fact that he has sat there for over a decade voting for terrible policy after terrible policy, which basically makes him a terrible person, because they exchange cheerful hellos to the bloke in the corridors every day, maybe even go for a couple of sherries with him in the HoC bar.

It’s a chummy system that insulates everyone involved from the real harm and suffering out there, and the consequences of the kind of banal cruelty the Conservatives have made their trademark.

Another way to look at it is things are so bad with the Tories that after sticking it out for 14 years this Tory can’t do it anymore. No I don’t really buy that either but that’s how I would be playing it if I was Labour.

Lots of people who previously voted Tory will not come the next election… some signals that they need to vote Labour rather than sit out the vote completely are really needed right now… I see this MP making that point, rather than just leaving the Conservative Party.

@kormoran Protect the NHS, fix potholes, fix housing. Stay in power for ever

FTFY. Anyone who can come up with a proper solution to the housing crisis (which probably also means some medium density housing between flats and ‘executive detached homes’) will be in power forever.

@kelvin If a lot of Tory voters just stay at home it will have the same result though?

we live in a socially and economically conservative country,

with a largely tory press

Indeed. And they’re already gearing up for an election and will be all over anything the Labour Party do or  say

Just talking to my 80 year old, Guardian-reading wokerati mother and she was saying how depressing she finds it that so many of her social circle still believe all the crap they read in the Daily Mail and still fully intend to vote Tory to ‘Stop The Boats’ and other such right wing guff. And come Election Day every single one of them will go out and vote

That’s the reality in this country. That 20% that the Tories constantly poll and that 10% for reform, thats it right there

@binners

we live in a socially and economically conservative country,

I’m not sure that’s true.

We live in a country where we’ve allowed a few right wing media barons an almost oligopoly, where the left wing vote is divided whilst the right is not to the same extent and where first past the post favours the Conservatives.

That’s partly why they’re so out of touch (probably) with the country.

@Kramer – I hope you’re right

But unfortunately there are plenty of Lee Andersons and Johnathan Guliss’s out there, propping up the bars of pubs and banging on about the EU and being ‘swamped’ by immigrants

And the right are now divided. Reform won’t be standing down this time. Not a chance! And thats a nightmare for Rishi because Tice and Farage won’t get any MPs, but they’re going to grab a huge amount of the racist pensioner vote who think climate change is a left wing plot and that we should be straffing the small boats with Spitfires in the channel

We don’t live in a socially Conservative country. The uk is consistently one of the more socially Liberal countries in surveys.
It’s just an awful feature of our political system that we have had the opposite in power for ages.
Was a great interview with Neil Kinnock on the newsagents on Friday where he commented that if the left was more unified like the right we would consistently have a more socialist government. It is the division that let’s the tories get in, plus our stupid fptp system

I agree with Kramer, certainly with respect to whether the UK is socially conservative.

Compared to much of Europe the UK is really pretty liberal on social issues. For example the UK brought in same sex marriages before Germany, decriminalised homosexuality almost 30 years before Germany, and brought in equal pay for women almost 50 years before Germany.

Then also look at the lack of water cannons in the UK and non-use of teargas.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-bans-pro-palestinian-protests-citing-risk-disturbances-public-order-2023-10-12/

Edit: I don’t doubt that Tories such as Rishi Sunak would love to ban demonstrations and use teargas against protesters, but I believe that the constraint on him is public opinion.

Well Boris famously bought a load of German water cannons and was most put out that Theresa May wouldn’t let him use his new toys

I would say a larger portion of the country is not economically conservative. Hence the electoral success of the fabricated levelling up nonsense.

The only people that are economically conservative in reality are the wealthy minority with all their assets and money.

That’s a small amount of voters really.

But people vote for a broad range of reasons/emotions so it’s probably a bit risky just to call a group of people socially or economically conservative. It doesn’t really mean a whole lot.

Tax the bloody rich by a large magnitude -reduce their control on finite resources, we don’t actually need their money they are mostly a drain on limited stuff for the rest of us.

A large minority of the population are definitely socially conservative across many demographics. I think we are good on legal rights to protect the diversity of individuals though, not quite sure we achieved it but its something we as a country have got right..

Economically the majority are conservative, they buy into the balance the books and we only have enough resources to do A and not B. They like the idea of more money being spent if it directly benefits them, not so much if it goes to a different group. They expect short term results were as meaningful change will take generations.

The big question is what came first, a right of centre population or right wing press? I’d suggest the former as the press will print any rubbish to engage users.

@binners The famously liberal Theresa May?

The evidence that British voters are economically conservative is weak.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/09/hunt-budget-backfires-voters-taxes-rise-observer-opinium-survey

Don’t confuse voters being misled into believing that the Tories will manage the economy better than Labour with them being conservative on economic issues.

With Labour fundamentally supporting Tory economic arguments it is not entirely surprising that voters should place their trust with the Tories.

Don’t confuse voters being misled into believing that the Tories will manage the economy better than Labour

A fair point, ironically the Tories have proven to be less competent with the economy time after time.

I also think when everything is going to hell people are less likely to support tax rises and spending on others, they don’t extrapolate their own financial struggles to others.

@binners The famously liberal Theresa May?

Thats kind of my point. Nobody would regard her as liberal by any stretch, but she’s now at the wishy-washy pinko socialist wing of the present Tory party. It shows you how far the party has travelled to the right in the last few years.

I agree though that the only people who support the present Braverman/Badanoch axis of evil are the 20 – 25% who are still propping up the Tory’s. I think the majority of the electorate find their nasty intolerence absolutely abhorent

I suppose my family should be Tory voters. Both high earning professionals, house owning, decent savings and pensions.

My wife’s father is a lifelong Tory, working low level in the city, with a burnt in distrust of labour from the Militant Tendency days. He hated Boris, hates the current government. But will still vote blue in the election.

We are probably both what is considered woke – proudly so too – and will both be voting labour, because the perfect party doesn’t exist and anybody is better than this lot.

“Anyone who can come up with a proper solution to the housing crisis (which probably also means some medium density housing between flats and ‘executive detached homes’) will be in power forever.”

Gotta fix wealth inequality first, and that is not going to happen overnight, or even over the course of one parliament.

Badedenoch is the political equivalent of wet cake and under pressure I suspect will display the fact same tendancy to fall apart

Somewhere to live –

Housing needs an enormous programme of investment along the lines of the post ww2 council house build. I would advocate small developments of quality housing stock commensurate with the scale of existing infrastructure. So a small village gets 5, maybe 10 houses absolute max. High quality insulated and sustainable property that will last. Every town and village gets a development, appropriate for location, size. That would I believe tackle the nimbyism associated with current projects.  It will take time but it has to be done

Somewhere to work –

Well for a start there is a productivity problem in the UK that needs addressed. Investment, training,  and a long term approach to fund further education and vocational training. Investment in the green future, transport infrastructure, water infrastructure and water security for the next 100 years at least. Civil engineering projects to tackle the sea level rise elephant in the room and climate change generally.  Energy infrastructure natch.

Someone to love –

Equal marriage, done but still work required. I can’t guarantee you’ll meet your perfect partner but as a very first step I’ll cast your net far wider with a return to freedom of movement as a member of the single market

 under pressure I suspect will display the fact same tendancy to fall apart

If by ‘fall apart’ you mean, instantly descend into arrogant tetchiness, I think that’s already been shown repeatedly. She doesn’t like being questioned.

In other People Trafficking News, ROI is taking back control of its borders.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0427/1446053-sunak-rwanda/

They need to show we’re a safe country before they do this kind of thing. 🙂 Given that we’ve just pushed through legislation which could deport them to a war-torn dictatorship, not sure that’s possible.

Tax the bloody rich by a large magnitude -reduce their control on finite resources, we don’t actually need their money they are mostly a drain on limited stuff for the rest of us.

Yeah, right. They also have the money and resources to be effortlessly mobile, and will just do what they did last time it was attempted – go and live abroad in one of their other homes. The Beatles wrote ‘Taxman’ about that very subject, due to being taxed 95% and then seeing their money squandered on all sorts of useless things.

”Mr Wilson, Mr Heath, pull your pants up boys we’re standing underneath.”

I can remember one particular government creating a whizzy new computer/IT system for the NHS, supposedly to allow everything to be linked up, all health records available instantly…

It never worked, and was ultimately scrapped after somewhere north of £100-150 BILLION was thrown at it.

Another, more recent example; the super whizzy high-speed railway system to bring wealth to the North! How well is that working out for the taxpayers?

They also have the money and resources to be effortlessly mobile, and will just do what they did last time it was attempted – go and live abroad in one of their other homes.

There’s a difference between more equatable tax, and 95% though.

I don’t think that the super-rich are quite as mobile as popular belief dictates. I think that they live in and around London because it’s one of the world’s great cities.

Anyone who can come up with a proper solution to the housing crisis (which probably also means some medium density housing between flats and ‘executive detached homes’) will be in power forever.”

Gotta fix wealth inequality first, and that is not going to happen overnight, or even over the course of one parliament.

As I’ve been saying for some time, we desperately need good quality affordable social housing. 20-25% of the population are never going to be able to own a home, we need to go back to the level of social housing we had post war/pre Thatcher. Relieves the housing benefit burden, will release buy to let property, take the heat of the house prices as demand eases.

Give people a decent stable home and they will feel more secure, better sense of community, better educational acheivement, better prospects, less social and unemployment costs.

Just **** do it. Ban private new build if we have to. Train more decent tradesmen. We don’t need 5 bed exec houses. We need starter homes, flats, 3-4 bed family houses, retirement bungalows. On brownfield sites – ie near existing facilities and transport. Just **** build it.

As ever, it’s a generational investment, with multi-generational payback

I would say a larger portion of the country is not economically conservative. Hence the electoral success of the fabricated levelling up nonsense.

Of course the question that no-one (least of all the largely Tory-biased media) is asking is
“WHY do things need levelling up?”
“What has caused such social deprivation over in [area]?”

Oh yes, the Tories systematically defunded it, cut council grants, ignored it, marginalised it and sold bits of it to their mates…

And now they come in going “look, here’s a pile of cash to help you be as good as the lovely Down South parts”.

Badedenoch is the political equivalent of wet cake and under pressure I suspect will display the fact same tendancy to fall apart

Shes absolutely awful! But the next Tory leader (and quiet possibly a brief PM) will be decided by the same people who brought us Liz Truss

The next Tory leader will be her or Braverman, because that’s who the racist pensioners of Eastbourne want. It’s beyond irony that they are both women of colour and the daughters of immigrants but welcome to the insanity of the present Bluekip Tory party

We also need secure rentals – private or state doesn’t really matter if you have secure tenancies and protected rents – likerwe used to have bfore the tories moved so far right and removed all protections

As I’ve been saying for some time, we desperately need good quality affordable social housing. 20-25% of the population are never going to be able to own a home, we need to go back to the level of social housing we had post war/pre Thatcher. Relieves the housing benefit burden, will release buy to let property, take the heat of the house prices as demand eases.

Give people a decent stable home and they will feel more secure, better sense of community, better educational acheivement, better prospects, less social and unemployment costs.

Just **** do it. Ban private new build if we have to. Train more decent tradesmen. We don’t need 5 bed exec houses. We need starter homes, flats, 3-4 bed family houses, retirement bungalows. On brownfield sites – ie near existing facilities and transport. Just **** build it.

As ever, it’s a generational investment, with multi-generational payback

Amen brother

Just **** do it. Ban private new build if we have to. Train more decent tradesmen. We don’t need 5 bed exec houses. We need starter homes, flats, 3-4 bed family houses, retirement bungalows. On brownfield sites – ie near existing facilities and transport. Just **** build it.

As ever, it’s a generational investment, with multi-generational payback

100% agree, the problem is that many of the big construction companies are Tory donors, brownfield sites are more expensive (decontamination, clearance etc), lots of Tory MPs are landowners / landlords and so throughout the current system, there is no incentive to change it – just like they won’t change FPTP while it suits them.

There’s also a cultural thing where everyone has been brought up aspiring to a 3-bed semi-detached in the suburbs.

New builds have a bit of a reputation for shoddy workmanship as well – as usual in this country it’s an attitude of “chuck up the cheapest things possible, sell them quick then leave the issues for the new owner to live with or sort”.

Can we vote for @MoreCashThanDash please?

lots of Tory MPs are landowners / landlords and so throughout the current system, there is no incentive to change it

The Tory’s manifesto in 2019 committed to end no-fault evictions and strengthen the rights of private tenants.  Since then they’ve done the square root of **** all to implement that.

… and we all know full well why that is. Because lots of Tory MPs have a portfolio of rental properties. Doesn’t the chancellor of the exchequer own an entire luxury seafront development, amongst many other properties?

The rental bill that Gove is cynically resurrecting now hasn’t just been watered down, it’s been entirely re-written so that it now actually strengthens the (already disproportionate) rights of landlords and further reduces the rights of private renters (of which I am one)

Their cynical opportunism and corruption is bottomless and we need rid of them for this country ever to progress beyond endlessly catering exclusively to the interests of the top 5%

Only as my second in command!

we should be straffing the small boats with Spitfires in the channel

dont put ideas in their heads

I agree. We need to build social housing.

Build an absolute shed load of 3 bed semi’s.

Get rid of right to buy, it’s basically what got us here in the 1st place. It was a con, the same as the privatisation of critical infrastructure.

twas the biggest failure of the Blair/Brown government not to invest in social housing…. but for it to work you’ll have to remove the right to buy, and unfortunately that has, like the nhs, become a sacred cow 😕

No right to buy in Scotland IIRC.  It can be stopped easily.

Nothing wrong with right to buy in principle, it’s a good way to prevent social housing being blocked by people who no longer need the support but don’t want to move from a family home. Just needs a covenent to prevent the house being commercially rented in the future. Like most things the devil is in the detail.

Any money raised obviously needs to go straight back into building more social housing.