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  • Rishi! Sunak!
  • dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    How long do we think he’s going to be around?

    (Go on you thought it was going to be about him resigning 🙂 )

    (I thought it’s about time we gave him a thread – may possibly be a hello and good bye one thou.)

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I doubt he’ll be quitting, but I think his prospects of getting the top job slipped before his wife’s tax affairs hit the news – when he bungled his response to the cost of living crisis, filled up someone else’s car with petrol and did that weird thing about insisting he wants to cut tax (while raising NI).

    Even the Daily Mail is calling him “Fishy Rishi” now.

    nickc
    Full Member

    You know, when some-one like Martin Lewis says out loud that he thinks there’s a risk of civil unrest because of the a looming cost of living crisis…Martin Bloody Lewis…the man who used to tell you how to shave a few quid off your mobile phone bill, or tell you your rights about airline fares…And still as a govt you pursue, in the face of all evidence that they are effective, policies based around a dogmatic belief in “balanced books” small states, and “The power of the market” that will make millions of people either unemployed homeless of debt ridden. Then the shuffling about of one minister isn’t really going to make any difference.

    slackboy
    Full Member

    There’s a very good letter in the guardian today that really sums up the problems here:

    I am sick of hearing that wealthy people who use tax-avoidance schemes are “doing nothing wrong”. The only reason they are doing nothing wrong is that other wealthy people – friends, relatives, business associates, old school chums – in the legislature have built loopholes into the tax system for this purpose. We have a collusive system where members of an exclusive clique gain access to the legislature, often while funded by others of the clique, and create legislation that only applies to those outside the clique and creates a lower-tax life for those within it.

    Other people dodging tax are doing something wrong; the only reason these people are doing nothing wrong is that their tax-reduction schemes come with immunity. To place some people above the laws that govern the rest of society is to create something between a kleptocracy and an oligarchy. Colluding in such a system is doing something wrong.
    Dr Stephen Riley
    Bruton, Somerset

    davros
    Free Member

    All he needs to do is relaunch Rishi’s meerkat meals and we’ll all love him again (if his wife pays for it).

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Perhaps he could relaunch then as Rishi’s Loaves and Fishys

    Already good to align your marketing with the Big Guy

    rickmeister
    Full Member

    He has moved out of No 11 though? Maybe to No 9…?

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    I doubt he’ll be quitting,

    He’ll be moved on in the next reshuffle then he’ll quietly step aside before popping up a few months later in the States as part of a US-led “healthcare” buyout of the NHS.

    dannybgoode
    Full Member

    You have to ask yourself the reason that a billionaire wife wants to save the £150k a year job of her millionaire husband by agreeing to pay lots of tax.

    Its clearly not because they need the money from that job. I don’t know, maybe its something to do with the political influence that job brings to help his billionaire wife and all his rich friends stay rich.

    Or maybe I’m being cynical. .

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    That’s a great letter in the Guardian, needs sharing widely so that people start to understand rhe fundamental changes that are needed.

    To be honest,if Boris has hung him out to dry by leaking his wife’s tax stuff, if I were him I’d be quitting as a Minister and resigning as an MP* – he can afford not to play those shit games.

    *Though I fear he’s in a safe Tory seat so no risk of an upset in a by election unless the opposition unite as an “anti-avoidance alliance”

    piha
    Free Member

    He’ll be moved on in the next reshuffle then he’ll quietly step aside before popping up a few months later in the States as part of a US-led “healthcare” buyout of the NHS.

    This ^^

    There does seem to be a bit of a power struggle going on in the tory Party right now, the inept, bumbling Bozza and his crooked allies must be feeling confident that they can scupper anyone that might emerge to challenge the Leadership in the Party.

    binners
    Full Member

    He’ll be moved on in the next reshuffle then he’ll quietly step aside before popping up a few months later in the States as part of a US-led “healthcare” buyout of the NHS.

    This.

    Or some other highly paid consultancy role taking advantage of the rules he put in place. More likely a big role at KPMG or PWC, advising their clients on using the rules he put in place to minimise their tax liabilities. All part of the revolving door from the treasury to the big consultancies

    Think of Rishi’s adventure in politics as like a gap year to see if he could get to play at being Prime Minister. As soon as he realises that’s not happening, he’ll get back to his lifes real passion… making shedloads of cash

    TiRed
    Full Member

    He’ll be moved on in the next reshuffle

    You don’t get “moved on” from the Number 2 job. He’ll be out of the cabinet, then out of parliament. He’s not going to get the Number 1 job after this.

    By contrast, you might like to read about the tax affairs of his predecessor, who was also a Non Dom (when he was working abroad), put all his shares in to a trust, then when he came back to the UK made sure he paid 50% tax on them.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Fair play to Javid, he appears to have understood how politicians need to be seen to behave.

    Could he replace Rishi? Assuming Cummings’ advisors was the reason he quit before.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Fair play to Javid, he appears to have understood how politicians need to be seen to behave.

    Could he replace Rishi?

    Probably more interested in replacing Boris.

    Received wisdom is that it’s never the favourites who get the Tory leadership (that just didn’t apply last time round for special reasons).

    ElShalimo
    Free Member

    I thought Sunak replaced Javid when Javid resigned on a point of principle…only to return to the Cabinet a year or so later when he needed to displace Sadiq Khan as the most famous bus driver’s son in the UK?

    nickc
    Full Member

    Fair play to Javid, he appears to have understood how politicians need to be seen to behave.

    But if morally it’s OK to be a nom-dom, (as most of the Tory party seem to think) why did he give it up when he became an MP?

    dissonance
    Full Member

    why did he give it up when he became an MP?

    Because if you are a non-dom you are stating that you dont consider the UK to be your permanent home. Which isnt really compatible with being an MP.

    rone
    Full Member

    And still as a govt you pursue, in the face of all evidence that they are effective, policies based around a dogmatic belief in “balanced books” small states, and “The power of the market” that will make millions of people either unemployed homeless of debt ridden. Then the shuffling about of one minister isn’t really going to make any difference.

    Here here.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Javid was a Non Dom when he was living and working abroad. So when he returned and became an MP, he stopped. Seems pretty straightforward and I don’t see any issues with that behaviour. I also think he’ll be after the Number 1 job. The Sunak’s by contrast seem less than transparent and one wonders at the internal Due Diligence. Perhaps they simply didn’t heed any advice. In any event, he’s done with politics after this.

    spawnofyorkshire
    Full Member

    I think there’s a very fundamental reason Rishi Sunak, Sajid Javid, or Priti Patel will not be selected by the Conservatives for the number 1 job….

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I think there’s a very fundamental reason Rishi Sunak, Sajid Javid, or Priti Patel will not be selected by the Conservatives for the number 1 job….

    Suprised it took so long for someone to infer this.

    I disagree, Rishi would have been regarded as very acceptable if he hadn’t got himself in such a mess.

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    Either)

    1 Slick Rick is around for the full term until GE and maybe beyond
    2 Gone by Next week

    spawnofyorkshire
    Full Member

    @chakaping
    Yeah, I think Rishi was the ‘acceptable brown person’, but there’s still a lot of underlying racism in the Tories that would too much for him to overcome. TBH it’s not just the tories, i think there’s too much underlying racism in british society that would present a massive hurdle for anyone who isn’t white to be electable. I feel sad writing that

    cb
    Full Member

    We’re all seemingly inferring that Rishi hasn’t got any ammunition to fight back with? I think those that voted this party into power won’t even remember this come election time – its all down to how much Johnson wants him gone and how badly Rishi wants Johnson’s job.

    I expect Rishi has plenty of dirt on those within in his own party plotting against him – let’s hope he comes out punching – for the entertainment value if nothing else. Its not as we have any kind of international reputation for good governance to protect!!

    bigblackshed
    Full Member

    The part where The Saj paid 50% tax on the wealth he brought back into the the country is straight out of the “look! Squirrel!” tactics playbook.

    No numbers have been released and 50% of sod all is sod all. Virtue signalling of the inept.

    And as said before, Rishi isn’t the right shade of leader. Especially for the blue rinse fascists and little Englanders. He and his other cabinet members that qualify are barely acceptable as long as they are being extra nasty to the great unwashed.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    You have to ask yourself the reason that a billionaire wife wants to save the £150k a year job of her millionaire husband by agreeing to pay lots of tax.

    Its clearly not because they need the money from that job. I don’t know, maybe its something to do with the political influence that job brings to help his billionaire wife and all his rich friends stay rich.

    Yep keeping the status quo or improving it for the wealthy.

    I don’t think he’s in the job to help out the little people.

    If the numbers are true the Dom staus avoided £20m in tax, just think that’s just the savings in avoiding the tax, some serious moneys flying around in Rishi Missi land.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Perhaps he should have paid for Big Dogs wallpaper 🙂

    rone
    Full Member

    Chancer of the exchequer

    mefty
    Free Member

    Javid was a Non Dom when he was living and working abroad. So when he returned and became an MP, he stopped.

    No that’s wrong, he would have been domiciled abroad from birth as he maintained a Pakistani domicle based on his father, he then opted to become UK domiciled. My guess is the money in the offshore trust was an EBT which he was going to repatriate sooner or later. The EBT could be described fairly as a tax avoidance arrnagement albeit one set up at the behest of his employer. There is no suggestion that Sunak has ever been a non dom and he is certainly isn’t at the moment because he couldn’t be a MP if he was. His wife on the other hand is non domiciled and she paid a fee to maintain the remittance basis which is completely inline with the intent of the rules brought in under Brown and extended under Cameron. It is completely incorrect to describe this as a tax avoidance arrangement. The letter in the Guardian is puerile.

    greyspoke
    Free Member

    he then opted to become UK domiciled

    There is your domicile based on the UK law of domicile (which covers more areas than just tax law), and being treated for tax purposes as “non-domiciled”. I *think* it is the case that you always have to opt in to being treated for tax purposes as being non-domiciled, but you can only properly do this if you are, in fact, non-domiciled in accordance with the general law of domicile and any specific tax rules about it.

    ETA Sounds like the Saj has Pakistani “domicile of origin” but has make the UK his “domicile of choice”. But for tax purposes you can’t hang on to your domicile of origin indefinitely if you live here.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Come on rishi, you know why to do. A life in the Californian sun beckons, just push the button and get your revenge.

    dogbone
    Full Member

    He now knows he’ll never be PM and is about to get pushed out anyway.

    A nice ‘I realise my conduct fell short and given the sacrifices of others I must step down’ will do.

    Drop mic and walk away.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    He now knows he’ll never be PM and is about to get pushed out anyway.

    A nice ‘I realise my conduct fell short and given the sacrifices of others I must step down’ will do.

    Drop mic and walk away.

    Who the hell does that leave as the next Chancellor?!
    Unlike the top job, there’s not an obvious successor waiting in the wings. We’ll end up with another of Boris’ yes-men.

    This is the problem when the talent pool is not just shallow, it’s bone dry!

    I’d shoot the lot of the them and then start from scratch.

    seadog101
    Full Member

    If Sunak didn’t realise that is wife’s Non-Dom status would look bad, then why on earth is he allowed to look after the Nation’s money? He seems a bit stupid to me.

    Also, the amount of money his wife has saved by using the non-Dom rules is, in terms of her overall wealth, a pittance. Which to me is actually worse, just a sign of greed and keeping as much as possible away from HMRC.

    The letter from the Guardian really sums it up nicely. Most of us mere mortals pay the taxes we have to through PAYE. We may take the advantage of pension contributions, or an ISA, here and there. Very few of us have the wealth that allows us to divert our income through schemes and devices put in place for the rich, by people who are friends of the rich.

    bruneep
    Full Member

    mefty
    Free Member

    There is your domicile based on the UK law of domicile

    Tax law follows the law of domicile subject to specific statutory provisions so Javid would have essentially been adopting a domicile of choice. The concept of deemed domicile which I think is probably what you are thinking about has been a feature of inheritance tax (and its predeceesor Capital Transfer Tax) since inception. This concept was added to income tax by Cameron’s government but that was obviously after Javid returned to the UK.

    Waderider
    Free Member

    The letter in the Guardian is puerile.

    It’s absolutely correct in my opinion. That is a problem that needs fixed urgently.

    greyspoke
    Free Member

    @mefty, not exactly, the point I was making was that you have to claim that your overseas domicile entitles you to be treated differently for tax, otherwise you pay UK tax in the usual way. I don’t know whether not making such a claim amounts to making the UK your domicile of choice, maybe a bit more would be required.

    mefty
    Free Member

    I don’t know whether not making such a claim amounts to making the UK your domicile of choice

    It doesn’t.

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