[Closed] Quick job question for the coppers on here.

Job is great as long as you keep your head and don't find yourslef becoming a cliche or too influenced by neanderthal old boys working their notice (which in my opinion is the worst bit).

Second worst bit- target obsessed commanders who have given up on Policing and just want charts that say the right things.

What's the worst bit about it?

I think the forum would break, if we were to even start with that one... 😯

Not the job I'd ever do, but good luck! You'll need it...

I do wonder how I'd cope with knowing who the villain is and not being able to act on it for whatever reason or catching a toe-rag and then seeing them doing the same thing a month later after a mild slap on the wrist.

I do wonder how I'd cope with knowing who the villain is and not being able to act on it for whatever reason

Hmm, this is why we have a judicial system. Where each person has the right to a fair trial.

Don't make the mistake, that too many coppers do, of thinking they 'know' the Law. Your job is merely to uphold the Law; it's the Lawyers and Judges who administer and dispense it. The number of times I've had coppers quoting the Law at me, and getting it wrong. This is more the fault of the training though really. I think educational standards should be increased a lot for entry. A-level Law should be mandatory.

Be prepared to be met with hate, fear, suspicion and mistrust. It's a nasty job, but someone's got todo it.

I work in a traffic related area for a local authority so hate, fear suspicion and mistrust are not new.

I've met some fantastic friends through the job, but the shifts can be a pain to be honest.

I get around 1 full weekend of in 8, which means that getting out with friends not in the job is difficult. You're social circle will start to be more work friends, not necessarily out of choice, but just because your all off at the same time 🙂 lol

If we're having a get together or a meal out etc, it takes a lot of forward planning, although my missus works shifts as a nurse which doesn't help.

We've got nights out planned with friends in May!!!!! lol

Having said that.....

It's a brilliant job and I wouldn't do anything else. Has good and bad days like any other job, but the good bits far out weigh the bad bits 🙂

As said earlier, don't let the 'old sweats' taint your view if you join. There a lot of Officers who believe that the job owes them a living, are lazy and moan about every little thing. I suppose a lot of jobs are like that though.

My other half had always wanted to be in the Police. She took the plunge a few yrs ago joining as a special constable for a year or so to see how she got on, before joining full time.

She absolutely loves it even though she's earning less money, working more anti-social hours, having to deal with some really nasty situations & having to deal with the drudgery of paperwork.
She now comes home withe a glint in her eye that tells me she's actually enjoying her work, rather than just going through the motions of her previously un-fulfilling job.

I work in a traffic related area for a local authority so hate, fear suspicion and mistrust are not new.

LOL!

You'll be taking your stab vest with you to your new job, then?

I was 30 years as a response officer in the Met.

While I wasn't the most inspiring plod ever to walk or drive the beat at least I wasn't like the vast majority who spend two years on the street ,or less, and then disappear into some backwater of a speciality, never to reappear in anything approaching useful form again ...... EVER.

I started my last posting at an outer borough which covered 33 square miles of urban sprawl in the mid '90s and there were 40 odd officers on shift to deal with the calls. When I left, three years ago, there were 14 officers allocated to do the same job. Don Quixote was nowhere in it!

The people directing policy were so far removed from common sense that it was mind bogglingly nauseating and the way frontline troops were treated was inhuman, degrading and disgusting.

If you do join please be aware that even the most simple of tasks has a minefield of discipline/court action against you/sacking etc potential ........... And trying to wrench common sense solutions and uphold some kind of order and decency in your everyday dealings with the public requires the same stamina as climbing Jacobs Ladder or the Walna Scar...........everytime for everything.

The pension is good but I believe they have devalued that for new joiners. And there was even a downer to mine in that the Home Office effectively cheated me out of £20,000 when I retired. Something which Federation Court action has now resolved.

Calm. Calm. Calm.....just forget all about it.

Good luck.

May the farce be with you.

Woking is safer than London.

Woking together (with the rest of the country) is safer than London.

King Solomon............................not listed.

cheers guys. Good to see both sides of the coin. Guess it doesn't hurt to fill in the application form!

I'd suggest volunteering for a spell in the Specials first.

From first hand experience I've met meatheads/tools and people who really do care in the Police.

Just to add (I've said this countless times in SP&L in the pistonheads forum- I've nothing but admiration and respect for the Police.

Our bad day can be problems getting your computer to start up, whereas a bad day for an Officer could be a punch in the mouth or worse.. sharps.

Hora, thanks for the advice about the specials. However, for my local force, it was a one day special on application forms and the deadline is tomorrow! Looking at the form, time in the specials would give you better things to write about to answer some of the questions!

I'm too old to join the Plod anyway, but now and then, I'd quite like to be a hard-drinking, womanising, slightly racist belligerent bastard of a copper, going round nicking villains:

[img] [/img]

SHUT IT YOU SLAAG!

If I was thinking of a career in the Fuz, that would be my first stop.

I'd need to take my keyboard into a rook in place of my truncheon mind 8)

You get to say things like 'Fire up the Quattro!'

[img] [/img]

Or.......

Fire up the diesel in my case 🙁 sniff sniff

[IMG] [/IMG]

Ah, poor amplebrew. 🙁

What you want, is one of these:

[img] [/img]

Jack Regan would sh1t Gene Hunt.

Still, could be worse...............

Could be "wind up the smart!" 🙂 lol

[IMG] [/IMG]

[b]billyboy[/b]: I was 30 years as a response officer in the Met...
doom...
gloom...
Calm. Calm. Calm.....just forget all about it.

I'm in! Where do I sign?

The Flying Ox - Member

billyboy: I was 30 years as a response officer in the Met...
doom...
gloom...
Calm. Calm. Calm.....just forget all about it.

I'm in! Where do I sign?

Onza, it's honestly a fantastic job; as long as you don't mind the shifts.

One of the nice things is being off mid-week so you pretty much get the trails all to yourself 🙂

My shifts consist of:

2 x early shifts 7.30am - 4.30pm
2 x late shifts 3.00pm - 12am or (4.00pm to 2.00am on Fri/Sat)
2 x night shifts 11.00pm - 8am or (8.00pm to 8.00am on Fri/Sat)

I then get 4 days off in a row 🙂

Some forces are different though, when I worked for Lanc's the shifts weren't as good.

It's worth while speaking to a recent recruit at your local station rather than someone who has been in years. They will probably have a different outlook on the job.

You'll find that most Officers are really helpful.

Don't make the mistake, that too many coppers do, of thinking they 'know' the Law. Your job is merely to uphold the Law; it's the Lawyers and Judges who administer and dispense it. The number of times I've had coppers quoting the Law at me, and getting it wrong. This is more the fault of the training though really. I think educational standards should be increased a lot for entry. A-level Law should be mandatory.

Be prepared to be met with hate, fear, suspicion and mistrust. It's a nasty job, but someone's got todo it.

How can you uphold what you don’t know? In order to do your job as a policeman you need a fairly good grasp of the basics of criminal law (particularity in crucial bread and butter areas of legislation such as PACE). Agreed it isn't to the degree of a lawyer or judge because as a policeman you are not conducting a trial or interpreting the minutiae of the various statutes. A policeman who doesn’t know his powers under the Acts would have his cases kicked out and in certain circumstances could be personally held criminally negligent/responsible.

On the issue of ‘A’ levels. That is utter piffle. If that were to be the case some fantastic, intuitive officers that I’ve worked with over the years wouldn’t have got in the job.

I've very rarely been met with hate, fear, distrust or suspicion from ordinary law abiding members of society – as it happens. Not exclusively, but generally, those feelings tend to be displayed by the criminals.

But in answer to the OP I would recommend it. Goods points - at times very rewarding, good sickness/holiday benefits, job security. Bad points - bosses that haven’t got a clue about policing, high stress, pernicious Government schemes/targets that inhibit proper accountable policing.

If you are going to apply, be committed, don’t just give it a go. You must WANT to do the job, otherwise it will find you out and your tenure as an officer will be a short one. In recent years I've found that many recruits join to see if it's something they can turn their hand to (usually equipped with 'A' levels) and discover a year down the line it's not for them.

All the best.

Cheers, it's something I've been considering doing for years now, even as a young kid. I guess some of the daily mail type stories are a bit off putting but people around me seem to think it would suit my nature. I'm the guy who tells the hoodie on the bus to take his feet off the seats so someone else can sit down while everyone else is being very english about it and tutting under their breath.

The mention of stress is a little off putting. Is it stress or frustration? Also, I remember talking to a guy who ran recruitment for air traffic control. He was always getting asked about stress as the job has a reputation. He sad either you can do the job and it's not an issue or you can't and you find it stressful. In which case, you don't want to be there and we don't want you there. Would you say the same could be applied to the police?

If you are going to apply, be committed, don’t just give it a go. You must WANT to do the job, otherwise it will find you out and your tenure as an officer will be a short one. In recent years I've found that many recruits join to see if it's something they can turn their hand to (usually equipped with 'A' levels) and discover a year down the line it's not for them.

[b]Agreed[/b]

We usually lose one recruit per intake I reckon, mostly down to them not liking the shifts, the confrontational side of the job or them doing something naughty.

I've very rarely been met with hate, fear, distrust or suspicion from ordinary law abiding members of society – as it happens. Not exclusively, but generally, those feelings tend to be displayed by the criminals.

[b]Agreed[/b]

Most people you will come into contact with are fine, even a lot of the criminals who know the score will suprisingly be fine with you.

deluded; one of the main problems I see in far too many coppers, is that they assume they are the Law, rather than merely charged with upholding it. I've had the 'Law' quoted wrongly at me, and have had to correct the individual on many occasions. I'm not even a lawyer, and have had no legal training, so if I know more than they do, there's quite a serious problem.

Education: currently, there are no requirements for any applicants to the Police Force to hold any academic qualifications. I'd suggest, in the interests of Law and Order, it might be better to have a better educated and more intelligent police force. Certainly one whose foot soldiers actually have some knowledge of the very thing they are charged with upholding.

I agree that senior management can at times be crap. Last year's G20 protests showed the woefully bad leadership the police have.

Generally, I think the Police do an overall ok job. We do have perhaps one of the better police forces globally, but there's a hell of a lot of areas for improvement.

Education: currently, there are no requirements for any applicants to the Police Force to hold any academic qualifications. I'd suggest, in the interests of Law and Order, it might be better to have a better educated and more intelligent police force. Certainly one whose foot soldiers actually have some knowledge of the very thing they are charged with upholding

Previous education has no relevance on your skills as a Police Officer, only shows that you can study, learn things from books and pass exams.

The knowledge you need on the street isn't rocket science and a lot of the graduates and 'high flyers' I've seen, might look good on paper; but have lacked the essential people skills and not lasted in the job.

They might have flew through the Police tests, but putting their knowledge into practice during real life situations has proven to be tricky for them and many have left.

Far more important than education, is your desire to help people, abilty to listen and having the honesty to acknowledge when you don't know something.

Previous education has no relevance on your skills as a Police Officer, only shows that you can study, learn things from books and pass exams.

And this is a bad thing? I'd say the ability to learn is a fairly important 'skill' for any police officer. The problems I've encountered, stem from the individual's lack of skill to learn and understand the relevant information effectively.

Why the hostility towards education? Is having someone who is better able to think for themselves, a hindrance to effective policing?

Onzadog,

Not wishing to be over-dramatic but be under no illusions - you will be thrust into some deeply unpleasant and stressful situations. That goes back to what I said earlier - you must WANT that job.

Talkemada,

There is an entrance examination that all applicants have to sit irrespective of their educational background. At the moment due to the financial times we find ourselves in the job has become extremely attractive to many people (from all sections of society - milkman to business professionals, those with degrees and those without). Many forces have stopped recruiting for the next few years. Let me tell you this (from experience) - a policeman's worth, productivity or overall ability to do the job is NOT related to whether he possesses an A level or not. Trust me.

amplebrew,

You've summed it up far better than I.

Cheers!

Why the hostility towards education? Is having someone who is better able to think for themselves, a hindrance to effective policing?

I've certainly got no hostility towards education, I was just pointing out that from experience; it doesn't necessarily mean a better Officer.

Onzadog I'd say similar stuff to Deluded, however if it's something you've been thinking about for a long time, then that suggests to me that it's worth giving it a go! What I would say, is if you join and realise that it's maybe not quite what you wanted/thought it would be, just find another job a quit. I know lots of probationers who have realised they can' hack it (the public order, paperwork etc) but bimble on and become lazy very early in their career when they should just quit. There is no shame in leaving.

In relation to stress it depends on you I think but a lot of it can be frustration. nicking same bloke every month for the same offence and putting them before the court for them to get some piddly community sentence that you know they will breach but hey you get to a point where you realise as long as you are doing what yuo're paid to do as a police officer (arrest, charge and put before court) then anythign else that happens at court in sentencing etc isn't your fault.

Again hours can be good/bad depending on where you work. I LOVE shift work, recently did Monday-Friday 0800-1600 and hated every minute of it. Getting days off mid week is ace, just had yesterday and today off, then got 7 days of 1400 or 1500 - 2300 then 4 days off! Nice. We get 2 weeks in 4 off so a good ratio for a "normal" life.

Again there are pros and cons, but overall a fantasic job with lots of fun.

PS Don't waste your time with the specials is my advice. I respect those that do come out (for free, I wouldn't do it) but where I work it's rare and as they don't work often enough I wouldn't want them protecting my back in a fight!!

what force are you applying to ?

I think you're mis-understanding me.

i'm not suggesting that pieces of paper are necessary for a copper to do his job, I'm saying that an educated mind is perhaps better equipped to deal with rationalising and assessing things. I think the fact that most well-paid jobs are done by people with a decent level of academic ability proves this...

And if the job involves upholding the Law, then what's wrong with the individual possessing a reasonable level of knowledge on the relevant subject?? If you want to work in engineering, then a level of knowledge of engineering processes, as well as related subjects such as Maths, Physics, Chemistry etc might be useful. No?

How long is basic police training. What is involved? How 'knowledgeable' are new graduates, by the time they hit the streets? Sorry, but in my experience, quite a proportion of coppers I've encountered are not particularly bright or knowledgeable about stuff, and it's this ignorance that leads to problems.

And this is a bad thing? I'd say the ability to learn is a fairly important 'skill' for any police officer. The problems I've encountered, stem from the individual's lack of skill to learn and understand the relevant information effectively.

Possibly if the Officer was honest enough to say when they didn't know rather than guess, the outcome could have been better for you.

Nottinghamshire is my local force. I'm just trying to find out/remember what I got nicked for when I was 17 and went around the wrong side of a pedestrian reserve on my motorbike. I remember there were no points but TS50 looks to be endorsable. Still, it was back in '93/4

Thing is Talkmeda you mentioned doing A level law, commercial, torts, property law etc is not going to help! You can get people who are super intelligent with Masters, pHD's and often get fast tracked through the police, however they could handle a street situation if it hit them in the face. being intelligent and educated does in no way correlate to being a good street copper. To be a good street copper you need to know the basic law that we are all taught at training school and like in other walks of life, some people know the law better than others, some people find some topics easier to grasp than others. at the same time we can still easily turn up at a job where we have no knowledge as it's not something we've been taught. Easy enough to get advice to deal with it whilst you are there.

I'm intruiged as to your experiences with the law since you seem to think that you knew a lot more than those you came across, maybe you did but again like all jobs there are good people and bad people.

Onzadog did you get nicked for the traffic offence or are you saying that it was 2 different things? did you end up in court? It won't automatically preclude you ofrom applying so definately worth finding out, plus they'll do checks on you (and family) anyway.

As a matter of (limited and diminishing) interest Talkemada, just what is this vast experience you have of dealing with ill-educated Peelers? So that we know what standpoint you are speaking from ... like. You know ours?

Stopped by a traffic cop and fined. Just need to remember the details so I can put in on the application form. It was mid nineties so I can't remember much about it.

deluded; Through work (local services) and just living where I live, in London. Sorry, but in my experience (and that of many people I know), some police officers are just poorly educated and ignorant. I could give you a list of examples, but I really can't be bothered, as you seem convinced that education is unnecessary.

I don't think education to 'A' level is necessary. Read the thread contents again.

Nottinghamshire is my local force

I'm in Notts, city centre based.

Mail me in from my profile if you want to talk.

I worked on a City Centre unit for 2 years, so far the best time of my 7 year career! Brilliant, freedom to target what/who I wanted, had some wicked jobs with brilliant results. Get onto that City Centre unit!!!

to target what/who I wanted, had some wicked jobs with brilliant results.

Oh yes

Talkemada - Member
deluded; Through work (local services) and just living where I live, in London. Sorry, but in my experience (and that of many people I know), some police officers are just poorly educated and ignorant. I could give you a list of examples, but I really can't be bothered, as you seem convinced that education is unnecessary.

Education is never unnecessary, and reading through the posts; I can't seem to find anyone saying that.

What I can see is however, is that people have identified a higher education doesn't mean a higher level of service or increased armoury of skills from an Officer and there are other skills which are as [u]EQUALLY[/u] important when providing the public with a well rounded person.

I believe that it is wrong to judge a persons value or level of skill level by their educational background.

I'm sure there are lots or people in professional or skilled jobs throughout the world without an amazingly high education.

Agree with Amplebrew well made point.

What I can see is however, is that people have identified a higher education doesn't mean a higher level of service or increased armoury of skills from an Officer and there are other skills which are as EQUALLY important when providing the public with a well rounded person.

I'm not saying it does. But would you not agree, that a generally higher standard of education, coupled with good interpersonal skills, an ability to rationalise situations and make appropriate decisions, and all the other attributes of a good copper, would be good?

I believe that it is wrong to judge a persons value or level of skill level by their educational background.

Same here. But in such a 'public' role, I feel many individuals could benefit from a higher level of educational experience.

I'm not saying it does. But would you not agree, that a generally higher standard of education, coupled with good interpersonal skills, an ability to rationalise situations and make appropriate decisions, and all the other attributes of a good copper, would be good?

What would you class as a higher standard of education?

Do you know the educational background of the Officers you've dealt with?

Could the poor service be possibly down to poor Officers rather than so called uneducated ones?

Academic ability has next to nothing to do with how good or bad a person will be as a bobby in my long experience-the first and foremost necessary skill/personal trait is common sense!
I have seen an incredible number of probationers as they were called but now referred to as student officers who were educated degree students who left he job and were some of the least effective officers because they lacked common sense and many were naive.
Never the same day twice, always a challenge, some bad days, some great-if you think that society would benefit from your skills, give it a go. Nothing ventured nothing gained...and this is a 26 year service 'old sweat'!!!

What would you class as a higher level of education?

A better foundation in Law would be a start..

It's not particularly the level or subject that is important, more the experience that can be gained within an educational environment. I can only speak from my own personal experience, but amongst the people I know, it's the ones that have pursued education after leaving school, that are more knowledgeable, open minded and dynamic than those who didn't. They also, generally, have better careers and are often more secure and well-rounded people.

Formal education isn't for everyone, and there are some that have succeeded without any qualifications at all. But it can't hurt, surely?

In my experience, it's the officers who display a more developed intellect, that are the more effective ones. I think you'll agree, that the officers who have been more progressive in their careers, that are often the more educated ones. I'd hazard a guess that the more senior ranking officers are reasonably well educated.

The mind is like a muscle; exercise is good for it.

Wow, you are so far from the mark in my experience....
People that are thick will not pass the assesment to join.
Progression to senior ranks is only driven by the need of the individual to attain a higher rank.
There are some very 'uneducated' ranking officers who have the skills required to be both great gaffers but also still policemen. then there are others who are 'educated' with neither of the above skills and the odd one that has.
Being able pass exams does not make a policeman/policewomen, it makes you an exam student.

You usually find that Police Officers with a poor grasp of Criminal Law come unstuck very quickly in Court under cross examination, that's if the CPS put the case before the court.

This is good as it provides a check within the process. I agree that the Police in general should be mindful that they are there to uphold the law, and are not 'the Law' or above the law (at the end of the day the buck stops with the man in the funny wig), but I would add that in a lot of situations that Police officers find themselves in, Legal training would be useless.

To the OP, go for it...ask not why? ask why not?! 😉

Sorry to hijack but i am currently waiting for assessment/shortlisting and have found this very helpful although i dont think a debate about education was part of the question!

Onza - I have a couple of good friends in different counties(inc met)
and they have said exactly the same as on here - just go for it - it will be fun!

My gaffer's got a degree in Zoology and fifteen years of experince in some of the 'juicier' areas of the city- I know what is the most useful to him.

I've got a degree in social history, OU diploma in criminology, OU diploma in urban planning, various qualifications based around terror12m and the built enviroment along with a recently acquired accreditation as a fraud examiner and forensic accountant.
Its the ten years I spent working in nightclubs and in retail that has taught me the most though.
The rest just means I can knock out the odd essay or strategy document when needed.

On the other hand it does astound me how some meat-heads make it through- you're always going to need people to batter down the doors though. 😉

Talkemada - Member

It's not particularly the level or subject that is important, more the experience that can be gained within an educational environment. I can only speak from my own personal experience, but amongst the people I know, it's the ones that have pursued education after leaving school, that are more knowledgeable, open minded and dynamic than those who didn't. They also, generally, have better careers and are often more secure and well-rounded people.

Have you got any friends or collegues that haven't progessed their education beyond school?

Have you told them that they aren't as "knowledgeable, open minded and dynamic, secure and well-rounded?"

In my experience, it's the officers who display a more developed intellect, that are the more effective ones. I think you'll agree, that the officers who have been more progressive in their careers, that are often the more educated ones. I'd hazard a guess that the more senior ranking officers are reasonably well educated

The Officers who progress their careers either do so because they want to, not because they have a greater level of education.

Being able pass exams does not make a policeman/policewomen, it makes you an exam student.

Erm, it makes you able to tackle intellectually demanding tasks... 🙄

I think you're assuming I'm being somehow 'elitist' about this. I'm not. I'm merely suggesting that imposing higher standards might actually make for a better police force. Of course, there's no substitute for real experience 'on the job', but some of you seem very defensive about the issue of raising standards.

Generally, in our society, those who have a higher level of education do better. Wether that education comes from an academic setting, or through experience, knowledge is a good thing.

The Officers who progress their careers either do so because they want to, not because they have a greater level of education.

So, the top officers have no experience of Further or Higher Education? Really?

(Mr MC posting).

I'm a DC with a PhD, and in Oxford where I was formerly based there were at least 4 PhDs I know of. Most of us are pretty good coppers. The best and most respected street copper in Oxford (and star of the shield sledging video) failed the sgts exam, though he knows criminal law inside out but he's not a natural student.

Dont judge a nation of coppers by experiences with either droids or metpol, neither group is representative. I'm one of those who has quickly left the street for a pointless office job (you know, locking up rapists and drug dealers, that sort of thing).

I happen to think the bar for new recruits is set too low on all counts; the fitness test is an insult, many are too young/inexperienced/immature, don't see the job as a vocation or calling and the new training system has lost the last vestiges of discipline. Intellect is only one area that is not tested stringently enough at the recruitment stage.

I left science/industry and took a 30% paycut to join the police. On a good day its the best job in the world. The only job I can think of that could equal it for reward is in medicine when you save a life, and I've done that too. You will see the best and worst of human nature, and experience events and emotions they make movies about.

You could spend 30yrs as a constable theres so much variety- from dog handler, mounted section, firearms to child abuse specialist, cold case review team (having some fantastic results in Thames Valley) to organsied crime or surveillance.

Ask about ride-alongs which are exactly as it sounds. Try and do a few on different shifts to get a feel for the job-it will expose you to the real job and the people doing it and give you a feel for it, and look good on your application form.

(Mr) MC +1

Have you got any friends or collegues that haven't progessed their education beyond school?

Have you told them that they aren't as "knowledgeable, open minded and dynamic, secure and well-rounded?"

Yes. They tend to be less successful, knowledgeable, open-minded and dynamic as their better educated peers. One friend I was talking to recently, was regretting the fact he'd not pursued opportunities in Higher Education that some of his peers have. He has not progressed within his career as he would have iked, and seen better educated people come in and rise up the ladder before him. His career has stagnated, and he sees few opportunities for progression. He's not a copper, but I'd reckon a similar thing applies to most jobs and careers, really.

I'm not saying college or university is the be all and end all of everything. I'm merely suggesting a varied combination of skills and abilities is perhaps better, for most individuals at least, than a more limited and narrow set. What's wrong with that?

The Officers who progress their careers either do so because they want to, not because they have a greater level of education.

So, the top officers have no experience of Further or Higher Education? Really?

It's certainly not a necessity.

It doesn't matter to me what level of education my Senior Officers have,

It does matter to me that they allow me to police and help the community effectively.

It does matter to me that they listen to their Officers and understand the issues and problems in their geographical area.

I'm fortunate on both counts.

Think this thread is straying off the point slightly. But anyhow ...

Talkemada - I don't think you are quite getting it. There is no need for police officers to have any significant educational qualifications. I would suggest that your understanding of criminal Law, including the various ins and outs of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act might not be up to the standards you suggest. I can name plenty of occassions where I have dealt with solicitors/lawyers who have suggested my knowledge of the law is wrong. On each occassion they demonstrated a quite staggeringly poor understanding of the area of Law in question. I would suggest that this is a phenomena whereby most people who have done something silly believe that they are always right, or change their interpretation of events to suit their own needs. Some might call it cognitive dissonance. The most fundamental skills you need as an officer are common sense, an ability to make sound decisions under sometimes extreme pressure, and a thick skin. If anything needs to be improved it is the quality of initial training, although this is still a period of 32 weeks with a 2 year probation. However money and willing volunteers to train new staff are not terribly forthcoming. This is coming from someone with a good degree from a good university.

Getting back to the original point. Onzadog - I've worked for the police for a number of years and have done quite a few different things. I've worked in specialist units in uniform and as a detective dealing with everything from murder, terrorism and gunrunners through to shoplifters and pickpockets. I've enjoyed almost every second of it. The variety of jobs you can turn your hand to are mind boggling. Don't listen to the whinging. Lot's of officers moan about the job and how managers and the public are horrible, yet they still manage to do 30 years!!!

Yes. They tend to be less successful, knowledgeable, open-minded and dynamic as their better educated peers. One friend I was talking to recently, was regretting the fact he'd not pursued opportunities in Higher Education that some of his peers have. He has not progressed within his career as he would have iked, and seen better educated people come in and rise up the ladder before him. His career has stagnated, and he sees few opportunities for progression. He's not a copper, but I'd reckon a similar thing applies to most jobs and careers, really.

Believe me, you don't need any further education to be a good effective Officer and it will never hold you back from progressing your career.

Promotion is based on your work and skills demonstrated, not your education.

I've worked for the police for a number of years and have done quite a few different things. I've worked in specialist units in uniform and as a detective dealing with everything from murder, terrorism and gunrunners through to shoplifters and pickpockets. I've enjoyed almost every second of it. The variety of jobs you can turn your hand to are mind boggling. Don't listen to the whinging. Lot's of officers moan about the job and how managers and the public are horrible, yet they still manage to do 30 years!!!

I think it's the best job in the world and would not do anything else. You'll get out of it what you put in and if you keen and willing to get involved the possibilties are endless.

Talkemada - I don't think you are quite getting it

Getting what, exactly?

Actually, you demonstrate my point perfectly; you have provided an intelligent, reasoned, well-thought out and well constructed argument. Do you not think that your ability to do so is a result of your education? Indeed, would you not consider on the job training, in certain specialist areas, 'education'?

I think too many of you are equating 'education' with 'pieces of paper', and feel that such things aren't relevant to the job. I'm not. I'm talking about the mind of the individual being pushed further, for their intellectual potential to be realised.Mt MunqueChick seems to back me up on this.

A friend of a friend studied Forensic Science at uni. She then went on to join the Garda. After a couple of years of basic training/probation, she is now a fully qualified CSI or whatever it's called in her job. Without formal education, she would not be able to pursue her career in the way she wants, as she would not be equipped sufficiently. Yes, you need some lumps to kick doorrs in, but you also need people with intelligence and finely honed skills. Some of those skills can be learned in an academic setting, others from pounding the beat. All are valuable. Raising all standards for entry would, surely, make for a more efficient and effective police force.

Interesting discussion, this. No-one's called anyone a rude word yet... 😀

Ahem ... you were the one that specifically mentioned that police recruits should have an A level in Law!!! You clearly suggested that all police recruits should have acheived some kind of academic qulaification. Training is education, of course it is. But it happens after selection, not before. It's not as simple as linking recruitment to educational acheivement. That's all I'm saying.

A friend of a friend studied Forensic Science at uni. She then went on to join the Garda. After a couple of years of basic training/probation, she is now a fully qualified CSI or whatever it's called in her job. Without formal education, she would not be able to pursue her career in the way she wants, as she would not be equipped sufficiently. Yes, you need some lumps to kick doorrs in, but you also need people with intelligence and finely honed skills. Some of those skills can be learned in an academic setting, others from pounding the beat. All are valuable. Raising all standards for entry would, surely, make for a more efficient and effective police force.

Fair point
A lot of jobs requiring a higher level of education are being civilianised these days though. Not sure if that's good or bad- do you really need powers of arrest to analise evidence in an office or lab?

Likewise will an excessivly qualified mind be at home with the strict chain of command in some forces?

Discus,
5000 words, on my desk by Monday, have a good weekend students.

I would highly recommend you read this - brilliant! 😆

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Tankslapper it is a good read and very similar to what actually happens/goes on however back to the original thread!

Apply and go for it!! Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Surely the single most important skill to have as a police officer is the ability to communicate and to do it well?

Nursing is moving ever more rapidly towards being a degree only profession, but being able to complete a degree is no guarantee that you are able to communicate at the standard needed. I strongly suspect that police officering is exactly the same.

Degree entry should mean a certain innate or taught level of intelligence, but it really only means that you can do a degree, not that you can function any better than someone without one.

There's a lot to be said for crusty old ****ers who've seen it and done it and got the T-shirt. (I'm one of them... 😆 )

[ being able to pass exams] makes you able to tackle intellectually demanding tasks...

Well, that's a bit of a tenuous relationship between exam taking and intellectual ability in the first place, but even if the above were true... how much of a police officer's job involves intellectually demanding tasks? By "intellectually demanding", I mean lots of abstract reasoning and consideration of fine principles. I'm not saying that cops are thick, I am just suggesting (and ready to be correct by those who know better) that in the vast majority of cases, the practical application of usually relatively-well established legal principles using common sense and humanity is going to be much more important than intellectual demands for the average cop. I mean this in the same way that paralegals and most high street lawyers are mostly dealing with very routine legal transactions, most nurses and GPs are dealing with mostly the same diseases with mostly the same outcomes etc etc.

I'm not disagreeing with you that generally education is A Good Thing and that usually more education = smarter person but just suggesting that for the rank and file, having a degree or A Level law might not be much of a guide. Cops in New South Wales, IIRC, all do a part-time Police Studies degree at Macquarie Uni but let's just say there's no radical noticeable improvement over English ones. (And, also, I am sure that we have all met incredibly thick, naive and unperceptive people in mainstream life who have somehow managed to get degrees).