PSA: Wot? No iPhone 5S/5C PSA? :)

As you should be Gary, as you should be 😉

Foxconn is a good point.

Who doesn’t use them?

Pages and Numbers free with iOS7

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/apple-makes-iwork-free-on-ios-1179764

That’s going to please some customers who have ‘just’ paid for them 😉 😥

silly Q, Will iOS 7 run (crawl) on a 4s?

Pages and numbers is only free with new handsets.

Everyone gets ios7 free.

silly Q, Will iOS 7 run (crawl) on a 4s?

Been running it for a couple of months… Not slow yet… No doubt once app developers use all the new features it will be slow.. Facebook takes 6s to load currently.

Been running it for a couple of months… Not slow yet

some good news at last

[tinfoil hat]

[/tinfoil hat]

^^ 😆

If you’ve been to the US in the last 10 years or so, your finger print scans will are held by the NSA, GCHQ, etc etc…

I see they have been sneaky by not offering the 5c in all black so people will know you’re a cheapskate as you have a coloured iphone.

I guess there will be replacement cases from china out pretty quickly though. If it is cheap enough to compete with mid range android phones I’ll probably get one and as anything has to be an upgrade from this thing I am currently using:

Even if Apple did somehow sneak out the fingerprint data without anyone spotting it being transmitted, would a hash of a partial fingerprint of one finger actually be of any use whatsoever to the NSA, GCHQ or other shadowy groups?

As footflaps points out, such groups have far better ways of getting full high quality fingerprints of all your fingers if they really want them. I believe many banks in the US fingerprint you when you open an account for example.

Will iOS 7 run (crawl) on a 4s?

Running it on 4. Quicker than v6, but it does have several features missing, like all that parallax nonsense…

….and other hardware dependant features.

I guess there will be replacement cases from china out pretty quickly though.

Less than an hour after the announcement:

I disagree with the fingerprint paranoia (and I’m a tin foil hat kinda guy) and doubt that the fingerprints will leave the device. However:

As footflaps points out, such groups have far better ways of getting full high quality fingerprints of all your fingers if they really want them. I believe many banks in the US fingerprint you when you open an account for example.

This isn’t a very good argument. While I agree with you on the “if they really want to” case, to me this case isn’t the issue. The effort and cost involved in the above is vastly greater than the effort and cost involved in aggregating data collected from a phone which knows who you are, where you are and what you’re up to. The fingerprint thing could represent the establishment of a method that systematically achieves the fears of the paranoid with minimal economic cost. This brings it within reach of those wishing to perform mass surveillance, as opposed to targeted surveillance. Seeing as all the ethical problems of recent months arise from the deployment and aggregation of systems designed to create and store data from untargeted mass surveillance, I hope you can see why this could be considered a serious problem.

Your point about the application of this data for nefarious purposes still stands, I just didn’t want anyone to lose sight of the issues at hand.

I hope you can see why this could be considered a serious problem.

with an incredibly simple solution. don’t buy one.

with an incredibly simple solution. don’t buy one.

lol.

damn DX are good!

I did mean the rear casing though and not the slip on cover. I quite like the glowing apple logo backs that you can get for the Iphone 5, they even have all the CE logo etc on them like a real case.

edit: another solution – stick something over the scanner, maybe a bit of tinfoil 😉 and turn the feature off.

**** Me! Are you guys seriously worried about fingerprint data, if so, are you 00 agents or something! You guys had better wear bandanna’s and go around in wheelchairs too, there’s a lot of camera’s about and gait surveillance. 😆 Paranoia!

Once the phone is JB’ed, developers will be able to test the Fingerprint Scanner to make sure it isn’t being transmitted or hacked.

I think I must be missing something the paranoid guys are seeing… IF they could get my fingerprint, what can they do, as apposed to stealing my iPhone with my fingerprints all over it?

Haha good point. If you’ve ever looked a phone that’s just had it’s lock pattern input you’ll see you can copy it from the grease on the screen 90% of the time 🙂

The effort and cost involved in the above is vastly greater than the effort and cost involved in aggregating data collected from a phone which knows who you are

Really??

You think the “effort and cost” of a government security agency like the NSA accessing the records of another gov agency like Passport Control is somehow GREATER than the effort and cost of secretly conspiring with Apple to breach international privacy and data protection laws and secretly develop the ability to covertly transmit fingerprint data without hackers, competitors or foreign agencies ever noticing?

Even if that were true, all they’d get for that effort, cost and risk would be a simplified hash of a partial fingerprint of one finger or thumb and an idea of who it might possibly belong to.

You think the “effort and cost” of a government security agency like the NSA accessing the records of another gov agency like Passport Control is somehow GREATER

They already have. They’ve also got all the finger print scans from all the countries they’ve sold the same system to eg Kenya…..

with an incredibly simple solution. don’t buy one.

Or buy one and disable the finger print unlock, and just use the old method!

but what if THEY secretly enable it…

but what if THEY secretly enable it…

They don’t need to. It is ALWAYS enabled. EVEN when you turn it OFF.

The S in NSA stands for Switcheroo.

but what if THEY secretly enable it…

Well, they couldn’t because
a. it needs training to recognise a fingerprint
b. theres no guarantee it would be your fingerprint they are capturing since you could allow anyone to use the unlock code.

Disabling means you must have something to hide, so they will just secretly enable it AND flag you as a possible terrorphile.

Disabling means you must have something to hide, so they will just secretly enable it AND flag you as a possible terrorphile.

I think the latest revelations show that the NSA considers everyone as possible terrorphile, hence their universal snooping of pretty much everything….

You think the “effort and cost” of a government security agency like the NSA accessing the records of another gov agency like Passport Control is somehow GREATER than the effort and cost of secretly conspiring with Apple to breach international privacy and data protection laws and secretly develop the ability to covertly transmit fingerprint data without hackers, competitors or foreign agencies ever noticing?

No, I don’t. I’m arguing against the following line of reasoning:
“This privacy concern is invalid because this privacy can already be violated if person A does X Y and Z”
on the grounds that the new privacy concern potentially skips steps X Y and Z and makes it more economical to violate the privacy.
As for your little situation you made up – I’m not for one moment suggesting they’d do it, let alone secretly 🙂

If you are thinking of buying a 5C or 5S then read this article on The Register – particularly if you are thinking of sneaking on in from the States.

International 4G is a proper PITA and what works in Merka may well not work here…

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/11/apple_launches_10_new_iphones/

Cheers

Danny B

No doubt the scallies have already found a way of cracking the fingerprint lock.

There are many reasons not to buy one. The fact it is an Apple product being by far the greatest.

No, I don’t. I’m arguing against the following line of reasoning:
“This privacy concern is invalid because this privacy can already be violated if person A does X Y and Z”
on the grounds that the new privacy concern potentially skips steps X Y and Z and makes it more economical to violate the privacy.

And I’m arguing that you’ve got it completely the wrong way around 😆

My line of reasoning is actually more like:

“This privacy concern is invalid because it requires W, X, Y and Z to be performed illegally and in secret for a possible lead on a tiny part of private data when a complete and verified copy of that data is already available legally to the agencies that want it.”

No doubt the scallies have already found a way of cracking the fingerprint lock.

Someone once said (I forget who) that the trouble with fingerprint verification is that it is essentially a password that you write in plain text on every surface that you touch.

It would probably be more useful for them to know your phone unlock code, on the basis that there’s a fair chance it’s the same code as something else to which they might like access.

As I said before – unless the tech for the fingerprint reader is new, it’s easy to overcome.

“essentially a password that you write in plain text on every surface that you touch.”

Though with most modern sensors, it’s not – they read subdermal layers.

I really wish the mobile phone had never been invented.

I really wish the mobile phone had never been invented.

– Sent From My iPhone.

I really wish the mobile phone had never been invented.
– Sent From My iPhone.

😆

😀

From a desktop…but it is a mac.

“novelty” fingerprint scanning + GPS + inbuilt security backdoors present in pretty much every operating system, including iOS/Android = no more hiding places.

Why you might want to hide, I have no idea, but just because you don’t need to shouldn’t mean you don’t get to.

Not sure how Nokia can claim Apple are copying their phone with the multicoloured 5C when the multicoloured gen 5 iPod Touch predates that and coloured iPod Nano’s and Shuffles predates that – see the pattern?