Pie – Definitions please

I’m getting seriouly aggravated with people serving me a plate of stew with a pastry lid and calling it a pie. A pie should be a filling encased on all sides with some kind of pastry and I’m sick of the term being used to describe these abominations.

Am I in the wrong here or is the term being hijacked for for all manner of un-pie related foodstuffs?

Tart! You’re talking cobblers!

From wiki
Pies are defined by their crusts. A filled pie (also single-crust or bottom-crust), has pastry lining the baking dish, and the filling is placed on top of the pastry but left open. A top-crust pie, which may also be called a cobbler, has the filling in the bottom of the dish and is covered with a pastry or other covering before baking. A two-crust pie has the filling completely enclosed in the pastry shell.

Since most full casing “pies” are done so with short pastry you can keep it.

Pies should be puff pastry or mash potato topped. There’s no need for any more pastry holding the juice in if it’s being served in a pie dish.

However, pies for the pocket obviously need to be fully encased.

So, Id call both pies (and more), but dont particularly have any affection for some sturdy short pastry lead pot.

joolsburger – you are entirely correct. I always check first before ordering, and if it is a stew with a lid, sigh disappointedly and order my second choice.

Then never darken the doors of the establishment again. 👿

Roughly 3.14.

Stoner, I can cope with your entirely incorrect political stance.
Your opinions regarding economics only raise my urine temperature to slightly above tepid.
I agree with your views regarding the current state of the British press.
Your Land Rover based exploits are entirely worthy.

But this

Pies should be puff pastry or mash potato topped.

and this

….dont particularly have any affection for some sturdy short pastry….

are unforgivable.

Get help, if only for the sake of your kids.

I’m with Stoner on this matter.

tthew- That is an attitide that does you credit. How dare they and were I to quite rightly burn their establishment to the ground for this heresy, I would be arrested as though I were in the wrong.

A pie is what it is. There is no middle ground and nor should there be.

No open faced pies, no cobblers, no dessert pies or, god forbid, pizza pies, we already have adquate words to describe such things.

Stew with a square of puff pastry placed on top does not constitute a pie 👿

Pies should be puff pastry or mash potato topped.

Steady on.

There’s no need for any more pastry holding the juice in if it’s being served in a pie dish.

This is the single most offensive sentence I have ever read on this cursed site. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your loins.

Yunki that looks very tasty but a pie it is not.

This is a pie

Notice if you will the total enclosure of the filling on all sides and an adequate but not excessive gravy, the very high meat to air ratio is simply an added bonus provided by this particular manufacturer.

3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664821339360726024914127372458700660631558817488152092096282925409171536436789259036001133053054882046652138414695194151160943305727036575959195309218611738193261179310511854807446237996274956735188575272489122793818301194912983367336244065664308602139494639522473719070217986094370277053921717629317675238467481846766940513200056812714526356082778577134275778960917363717872146844090122495343014654958537105079227968925892354201995611212902196086403441815981362977477130996051870721134999999837297804995105973173281609631859502445945534690830264252230825334468503526193118817101000313783875288658753320838142061717766914730359825349042875546873115956286388235378759375195778185778053217122680661300192787661119590921642019893809525720106548586327886593615338182796823030195203530185296899577362259941389124972177528347913151557485724245415069595082953311686172785588907509838175463746493931925506040092770167113900984882401285836160356370766010471018194295559619894676783744944825537977472684710404753464620804668425906949129331367702898915210475216205696602405803815019351125338243003558764024749647326391419927260426992279678235478163600934172164121992458631503028618297455570674983850549458858692699569092721079750930295532116534498720275596023648066549911988183479775356636980742654252786255181841757467289097777279380008164706001614524919217321721477235014144197356854816136115735255213347574184946843852332390739414333454776241686251898356948556209921922218427255025425688767179049460165346680498862723279178608578438382796797668145410095388378636095068006422512520511739298489608412848862694560424196528502221066118630674427862203919494504712371378696095636437191728746776465757396241389086583264599581339047802759009946576407895126946839835259570982582262052248940772671947826848260147699090264013639443745530506820349625245174939965143142980919065925093722169646151570985838741059788595977297549893016175392846813826868386894277415599185592524595395943104997

joolsburger – Member

Yunki that looks very tasty but a pie it is not.

You’re right.

It’s a visual representaion of EVERYTHING that is wrong with this country.
Seriously, we need to clamp down on this filth.

I’m getting seriouly aggravated with people serving me a plate of stew with a pastry lid and calling it a pie. A pie should be a filling encased on all sides with some kind of pastry

**APPLAUSE**
I’ve been saying this for years.

But this:

Pies should be puff pastry or mash potato topped.

Puff pastry has had no place in a pie since 1985. Invariably “pies” such as this are in an oval dish and preheated to the surface temperature of the sun. The dish is there purely because no pasty can contain the sloppy gruel contained within. (90% gravy with unidentified lumps in it) they are invariably served with chips and over cooked veg.
A PIE should hold its shape when cut in half. Any gravy should leak out slowly, not gush like a dam after a Lancaster has bombed it.
Mrs PP makes pies. Proper man-pies that have real meat in them and pastry around them or mash on top. Anyone who wants to argue with that is cordially invited for dinner, after which I’ll accept your apology. 🙂

Mrs PP makes pies. Proper man-pies that have real meat in them and pastry around them or mash on top. Anyone who wants to argue with that is cordially invited for dinner, after which I’ll accept your apology.

*joins the rapidly lengthening ‘arguing’ queue…*

Any gravy should leak out slowly, not gush like a dam after a Lancaster has bombed it.

bravo

That pic wot Jools put up is….a picture of a pie.

Puff pastry & mashed potato! WTF!

I thought I’d read some strange things on this site but this thread beats the lot. A pie is a pastry container for something tasty, not just your dinner wearing a hat. The pork and black pudding pie I finished as post-ride nutrition today is a case in point: pig, blood sausage, and a bit of jelly contained on all sides by short-crust pastry. Excellent it was too.

I wish you’d not started me thinking of pies 😥

Well, mashed potato covers a shepherds, cottage or fish pie. Whilst not strictly a pie as such tradition has played a big part in them being given honorary pie status. And they can easily be made so they hold their shape after cutting, and as such this is a good test of their quality. Cheap pies are sloppy.

I’m so glad I’m not alone in this. When I remonstrated with the chap that served me yet another pot of watery stew containing 3 lumps of undefined gristle and “topped with a pasty lid” he looked at me as though I was mad. The fact that the accompanying chips were served in a small galivinised bucket and the whole thing came out on a slate @ £9.95 to you sir was the final straw. Never again. I plan to start a page on social media to campaign against these things.

Shepherds, cottage and fish are exempt as they have, as has quite rightly been said, earned an exemption and are well understood to be pies.

breakfast pie

another pie thread

drools onto keyboard…

What about a steak and kidney pudding made with suet pastry? Pudding or Pie

I’m keeping out of this….

Onzadog – Member
Roughly 3.14

I think we can tell from the general whippetry of the pro-full casing pie grumbles that this is a Northern thing, and ergo since all northerners are, without exception, usually wrong on everything we can conclude that a decent pie involves a puff lid on a hearty stew. Anything else is just working class hair – shirt cobblers.

Thread closed

the accompanying chips were served in a small galivinised bucket and the whole thing came out on a slate

I once went into the gents toilet of one of the local gastropubs and deliberately pissed all over the floor after being served chips in a crappy little metal bucket.

I think we can tell from the general whippetry of the pro-full casing pie grumbles that this is a Northern thing, and ergo since all northerners are, without exception, usually wrong on everything we can conclude that a decent pie involves a puff lid on a hearty stew. Anything else is just working class hair – shirt cobblers.

I think you mean

…a southern puff lid on a hearty stew…

Stoner – Member

I think we can tell from the general whippetry of the pro-full casing pie grumbles that this is a Northern thing

I’m reliably informed that sense and good taste are not geographically dependant, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

…and ergo since all northerners are, without exception, usually wrong on everything we can conclude that a decent pie involves a puff lid on a hearty stew….

Hand yourself in to the authorities before you hurt anyone else.
Please.

Anything else is just working class hair – shirt cobblers.

These shortcrust abominations are a ploy by the restaurant owning bourgeoisie to charge the working man (or woman, Reg) more for less.
A perfect example of the failings of capitalism without regulation.

Seriously, watch your back sunshine. You’re on the menu list.

I once went into the gents toilet of one of the local gastropubs and deliberately pissed all over the floor after being served chips in a crappy little metal bucket.

I did exactly the same thing because they weren’t.

Stoner for the record I myself am a Londoner. Pie transcends all boundaries and knows no prejudice. From the highlands and islands to the very tip of the southwest. In this place, in these bejewelled lands – A pie must have a case.

A pork pie with no meat and a fat free pastry

Can we at least unite in not allowing this abomination to good taste [ see what i did there] to be called a pie please.

A pie must have a case

Indeed.

You can take a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.
As my old Granny never used to say.

I was in the queue at the Lochore Meadows Country Park, the guy in front of me ordered a pie and a mochachino.

It’s pretty cosmopolitan up here.

Stoner. You are wrong, so wrong, your wrongness cannot be described on any normal scale of wrong.

Stew with a hat does not equal pie.

*Added to the list of people against the wall when the time comes.

The pastry is the essence of the pie and a bit of dry, tasteless, flakey Puff atop a stew just won’t do. In fact there is no place for puff pastry on top of a stew either. The whole point of a pie is that it could be taken to work before the days of Tupperware and cling film, and allow them to be eaten without cutlery. A decent Hot Pot can have Short Crust Pastry on top, but it ain’t a pie. If it’s served in a dish it can’t be a pie, it’s a stew or something akin to a stew whether it’s topped with pastry or not. Fisherman’s/Cottage/Shepard’s pies are the only exception, but they’re not proper pies, they’ve just adopted the name.

mcmoonter – Member
I was in the queue at the Lochore Meadows Country Park, the guy in front of me ordered a pie and a mochachino.
It’s pretty cosmopolitan up here.

At least it’s a step up from battering everything within an inch of it’s life.

It’s really quite simple.

Can you pick it up in your hands and carry it to your mouth? If you cannot (for any reason other than “it’s a really big one”) then it is not, by any sensible definition, a pie. A pie is self-sustaining and stands alone, proud. It does not require third party support from some party-sized casserole dish.

“Cottage pie” and their ilk get special exemption from this definition as they are not “pies” of a “cottage” type, but rather “cottage pie” is its full name. It does not, after all, actually contain cottages(*). It’s a bit like the “slow worm” which, despite its name, is not actually a worm (or a snake either for that matter).

(* – Except when served in East Lancashire football stadiums, perhaps)

I was in the queue at the Lochore Meadows Country Park, the guy in front of me ordered a pie and a mochachino.

It’s pretty cosmopolitan up here.

Yeh, when it’s daylight*. Dogging central when the lights go down.

*even then! a hell of a warped stretch of reality.