OK, so…

12 weeks ago, MissStripes tripped on a set of uneven steps between the car park of two shops [Tesco and PC World] and fell, breaking the socket of her second knuckle on her middle finger.

The steps – today:

[unchanged]

As you can see, the steps are not straight, the top step is a different height and there is a lip between the last step and the concrete used to join it to the kerb. She caught her foot on the lip and fell, and because the top is above the car-park by a kerb’s height [not easy to see in the pic]- she fell awkwardly, judging the height wrong to the ground. Overall, they’re clearly dangerous.

At the time [her birthday!] we figured it was sprained, but after 24 hours of getting more painful went to hospital where the xray showed a fracture in the socket. Luckily the parts hadn’t moved.

Dr’s advice was 6-8 weeks to recover, and she’s been back for two checkups.

For the first week it was taped up, then for the next 10 days after that she had to wear a sling as the swelling was still bad.

She had amended duties at work for two weeks, couldn’t use a right handed mouse for another 3 weeks and had to type with the other hand too.

We went in to Tesco two days after it happened, spoke to the Injury Dept. and reported it. Promises of investigations into the safety of the steps were made.

We decided not to pursue it in any way at the time as we were told the steps would be made safe for others and it seemed a bit ‘grabby’ of us.

Over the next 10 weeks it’s healing, but it still debilitating. I guess there is the chance of long-term soreness of the joint.

Now, I understand that this is not far from normal, but the issue is over the steps. They’re still in exactly the same state and are dangerous to others. MS is 26, but if an infirm person were to fall the same way they would be hurt more.

With the pain and inconvenience, and having seen that the steps are in the same state, we’re thinking of asking for some compensation; both for the unnecessary pain/inconvenience and to make them fix the steps!

In light of the above – any advice on who to use or how to go about it?

There’s loads of No-Win-No-Fee types around, but won’t they just win and take the awarded money? Other pitfalls we should be aware-of?

Thanks!

Sam

You’re probably expecting this answer but there’s no way in the world I’d be making a claim in that situation. I initially thought you were talking about a toddler but at 26 I think you have to take a bit of personal responsibility for looking after yourself. If you want the steps fixed (they look fine to me) then complain and escalate by all means but a personal injury claim is way OTT in my opinion.

**** me. Are you kidding? No wonder so many parasites phone me every day if people claim for this shit.

I am one of the most liberal here on these matters, but IMO you having a giraffe.

I can barely see what you are on about, your Mrs suffered no pecuniary loss, give it up.

In light of the above – any advice on who to use or how to go about it?

Tell her to look where she is going next time.

I was tempted to post a link to specsavers.

tbh my first and only thoughts are exactly what has been posted already.

But your photo is not doing your case any good whatsoever.

danger everywhere

MS is 26, but if an infirm person were to fall the same way they would be hurt more.

Won’t someone think of the children pensioners?

tell her to stay off the sauce on her 27th birthday perhaps

Surely someone can Photoshop this thread straight to awesome?

Shakes head at the sad state of the world.

Hope you missus suffers a life debilitating paper cut on the compo form.

OP
Hope your other half has a quick recovery…

But
I can’t believe you started a thread as good as this on the night shift 🙄

Now now, there’s no need to be knobs about it! *writes down some names*

The steps have been made badly, there’s a good reason trip hazards and uneven floors are usually signed. Unlike the [very amusing] Specsavers joke, when walking up/over a set of steps it is reasonable to find them consistent in height and without an uneven surface, as this is not a woodland trail etc where hazards are to be expected and extra care taken.

Tesco have made these steps, so they should maintain them. Further, if there was no reasonable basis for such claims in law, then no cases would be won, would they?

For those having trouble seeing the thing that caused her to fall, AFTER the last step, there is a lip of a few mm where the slab has not been set level with the concrete. As it is a small lip, just in front of a kerb/step down it is unexpected and doesn’t draw attention, especially as there is something else to look at – the kerb, and the sun was behind her at the time so there was no shadow cast.

It seems to me that the steps were not maintained and have become dangerous. Tesco were very apologetic, but have failed to make them good when they said they would. Paving slabs lose in the street are fixed by the council for this reason, and highlighted on the floor as well until this can be done. All of which leads me to think there is a reasonable basis to expect these things to be corrected before someone hurts themselves.

TBH, I don’t really care if some of you think it’s the wrong thing to do [you might remember, so did we, 10 weeks ago], and I am a bit pissed you didn’t take our motivation seriously – to have the steps fixed. Just because you don’t think kindly doesn’t mean we don’t. Falls kill elderly people.

So – I ask again – if we are going to get more involved in this, does anyone have any experience or advice about who to use, or what to look out for.

If we are offered some compensation, I certainly won’t be spending it on biscuits for some of you! :p

Ok. Before the predictable posts become a bit much, OP is decent guy and just asking an honest question.

“No chance sunshine” is an acceptable answer if you have some experience/knowledge, but let’s save internet flaming for someone more deserving though, please.

Edit: Above has since been scribbled since.

+1000 for replies above

It’s threads like these that reinforces my thoughts that idiots walk amongst us. *shakes head and walks away tripping on the incorrectly cut blade of grass*

If we are offered some compensation, I certainly won’t be spending it on biscuits for some of you! :p

I wouldn’t touch any biscuits bought with your blood money 😛

Poorly designed and built stairs, sorry she got hurt. But please don’t be that guy.

There is a tiny irony in the way this gets posted on a forum which celebrates the unevenness and unpredictability of the natural environment.

right…if you want to get the fixed and shame them then speak to your local rag. A journalist will take a photo of your wife holding up her finger and if you have a photo of the xray include that as an inset image. They will take a MUCH better photo of the problem and shame Tesco into fixing it or, which is more likely, spur them into fixing it before someone else has an “acccident” and claims for £1M.

If you include your name and where you live then you will probably have a local ambulance chaser get in touch pretty shortly afterwards. Do what you wish with that, but it would be far nicer if Tesco offered you a big wad of store vouchers by way of “thanks for bringing it to our attention and hope you heal soon”.

Another route, probably a bit slower, is to contact your local council. Ask for their health and safety people who will go inspect.

We did this with Asda when I skidded and ripped a wheel off my car due to poor location of a car wash. I was one of many people who had skidded there that week, a couple of people stopped to say they had done the same, the tow truck driver said he had picked up a lot of cars that month and the store managers came out and said they really should do something as lots of people were skidding and damaging their cars. (10mph slide like on ice down a hill into a central reservation). Asda refused to pay for the damage (I did all the labour so it was cheap), health and safety guy came out from South Gloucestershire council to inspect and span his rwd MGF when entering the slippy bit from the other side. Threw the book at them and they had to rip out the car wash and re do it properly.

tit for tat and all that…

Yeeesh seriously

Haha! Cheers Stoats and Andy.

You know, we hadn’t even thought of an amount like that, £50 split between a fine bottle of wine and the local food bank was more what we were imagining…. but I guess if other people imagine a claim of £1M then that might go some way to explaining why they reacted like that.

… we’re thinking of asking for some compensation; both for the unnecessary pain/inconvenience and to make them fix the steps!

For my tuppenceworth, those are two very different things. The steps may not be out of the Encyclopedia Of Good Steps, but I think it’s being a bit imaginative to claim they’re “clearly very dangerous”. TBH, I thought the picture was going to be labelled “after” and I unfulfillingly anticipated the “before” shot.

I suspect you are on a hiding to nothing, I will throw my oar in with the rest of the posters so far making sure that it is thrown at least 180 degrees away from you and yours just in case of any possible injury.

How many people have ascended and descended those steps since they were installed? Your argument is that due to lack of maintenance, which would mean that there was some sort of physical evidence present to reflect that claim. Are they crumbling, cracking, subsiding?

In summary there’s **** all wrong with those steps unless there is something not shown in the photo for instance a slab that is loose and wobbling when someone steps on it.

The lip is a few mm and from the picture looks no more that any escalator anywhere in the UK would introduce to that major life changing decision of should I lift up my foot or look a twit falling flat on my face..

Now if you said that a 26’r would have a major accident and a 26.5r roll over it I think you would have a major argument on your hands.

As soon as a copy of the paper hits the first hallway carpet the clock will be counting down for someone to go have an accident there and end up not being able to work, going round in a wheelchair, PTSD with a fear of steps etc etc. Then you have reports from “experts” who charge £400 an hour.

By mentioning no-win-no-fee ‘solicitors’ then you go from someone wanting it fixed and an apology to that ^ guy.

Your argument is that due to lack of maintenance

IIRC the top slab is lose and has sunk in, but I can’t really remember so as I was trying to only write the facts I left that out. MissStripes was feeling shy so I spoke to the store manager to ask if they had it on record from 10 weeks ago and she popped over to take a photo or two to see if they’d fixed it.

For whatever reason, the poured concrete isn’t level with the top slab.

It’s about 1cm on the right [varies], and she’s right handed so put her left foot on the top step [first step was with right foot, then up from there] then brought her right foot forward aiming to descend the kerb and caught it on that lip.

I guess a lot of you guys are on small screens? Zoom in, it’s a clear pic, but taken with a wide lens (Moto X).

You can also see the top step is substantially higher than the others, which is a big no-no on terms of health and safety and might have contributed to her tripping.

I quote:

“Research has shown that the physical dimensions of stairs play a significant role in stair accidents.

Consistency of stair dimensions is very important. Even small differences in the rise or going between adjacent steps can cause someone to misstep which can lead to a fall.”
HSE Website, emphasis mine.

@pondo – you added the word “very” to my ‘quote’. As shown above, they are dangerous.

By mentioning no-win-no-fee ‘solicitors’ then you go from someone wanting it fixed and an apology to that ^ guy.

We don’t have a lot of money. MS works for a charity and I am a student. Seeing as we were thinking 50 quid and a demand from the council [?] to make it good would be the outcome, it never occurred to me to ask how much an affordable “ethical” lawyer is!

There’s a lot of assumptions being made here that are not correct 🙁

we’re thinking of asking for some compensation

and

There’s loads of No-Win-No-Fee types around,

instantly means people assume the worst I’m afraid. World is full of vultures who go for the jugular at the faintest scent of blood. 🙁

Council H&S and a local rag would be your best bet to get it sorted. If you have legitimate costs etc then that is up to you. If there are some complications and you do need to pursue them for some costs (we have the NHS and she’s young so it’s not really likely) then having an official report from the council would back you up or having them respond to a paper shaming and fix it likewise.

Was there a handrail?

I would not consider the risk of falling especially high on those stairs, just because they aren’t to current regs doesn’t instantly make them dangerous. If I was doing a risk assessment on them I may note for improvement at some point but not urgently though I’d probably highlight the treads for the visually impaired.

I think there is a tendency to forget that everyone has a personal duty of care, sorry for the op’s other half but if she’d been a bit more careful the accident may well not have happened.

This is such a sad thread.

If this is the way that we are going to progress then we will all become frightened to go out. There is risk in everything we do, we must take personal responsibility.
You would like to claim because the steps are “a few mm out”, take this further and will you still ride your bike because the rocks on this trail are a bit bigger than they should be according to some regulation? Will you still visit historic sites with steps that are too steep, worn, uneven in rise and going? Or do we have to close all those down and not think of all those people who have taken a similar path for centuries?
Yes they maybe could be better, there is a difference in rise looking at your photo, and a slight lip between the top step and the concrete but I would expect someone who is being careful to cope with that.
Yes your partner suffered an inconvenient injury that has caused her some problems with work, but please do not take this any further, apply some common sense and accept that it was an unfortunate accident that could have been avoided by the user rather than blame someone else.

A couple of years ago on here I was flamed when I was scornfull of a stw’er who was seeking advice over a claim after tripping over a pothole in his Uni carpark. Turned out he’d claimed before (successfully) against the uni.

OP I cant say anything.

Personally I disagree with you claiming for something like this as shit happens and those steps don’t look bad to me. However there is an argument to say large corporations pay property maintenance firms to monitor their shops / land so should they not pickup things like this. I can see that it is annoying that once reported they have done nothing about it.
I would say that is more of an issue.

On to your question if you want to claim just google accident claim and go with one of the big boys. This is what we did when my wife was hurt in hospital. All we wanted to do was for the hospital to investigate, change or fix their building maintenance procedure so no one else got burnt. Wife collapsed and fell on a boiling hot radiator for only a few seconds. Massive burn on her back and all the nurses agreed radiator was dangerous. Anyway if the building maintenance team had fixed the problem and hospital offered for my wife to see a burns doctor for advice / treatment then we would be happy. Case closed as shit happens. Anyway their attitude stunk so we decided to take it further to try and get change. Went with a big claims firm who were good, but the funny thing was we made it clear to the hospital and claim firm we were not after money but the hospital was so poor at replying to letters and doing anything that they ended up missing all agreed deadlines and paid out £2k. Bloody ridiculous waste of money. It seems the minute you put a complaint in they treat it like a full legal matter and no common sense comes into it. They forget just a simple apology will sort many issues out. In the end it turns out they fixed the problem radiators in the ward and probably spent less on them than the cost of lawyers. If they had done this within a few weeks of the wife being hurt then all would have been fine.

For your situation I would put a complaint in to head office not the store and write to the chief exec as they all have complaint teams and you get faster service. If they do nothing then threaten legal action and reporting to the council unless they fix the steps. Putting a legal compensation claim in is a hassle but I do agree it is sometimes needed to get change.

I am a bit pissed

Well, it turns out I’m not allowed to insult you for using this horrible americanism (apologises) but I am allowed to wish your other half a debilitating injury. Hmm.

A slightly more articulate response…….No you should not be even thinking of claiming. Not because I despise the pervasive claims culture (spreading from the states I believe – probably by people who use the phrased ‘pissed’), because I understand your motives are not strictly monetary. You should not claim because it would be stupid. Are those steps the last word in considered design? No. But they are really not that bad. I would hazard a guess there are tens of millions of worse ‘hazards’ on Britian’s streets more worthy of attention.

Just look at them. I doubt they have changed much in function from the day they were erected and by the state of the brickwork that must be what, 15+ years ago? How many little old dears are you aware of in all that time that have hurt themselves? Probably exceedingly few (if any), mainly because they used their eyes and took a modicum of care and personal responsibility. Like what your other half should have done. Like we all should do every time we go up and down any steps anywhere.

I’m sure if you kicked up enough of a fuss some H&S womble will come along and point out some regulation contravention and you’ll have a warm fussy feeling inside that the world is a little safer because of your actions and your other half will feel vindicated that everything in the world is someone else’s fault and she is not actually just a clumsy plonker. But really?

The complaint was made to their head office 10 weeks ago.

Can people stop extrapolating irrelevant things about “going outdoors” etc. As I said, the only thing that makes this even worth considering is that it is property/access equipment and it is therefore the exact opposite of a trail/outdoor attraction etc.

Additionally, “common sense” is bullshit, there is no such thing, as demonstrated by the fact that people disagree over what is “sensible”, especially evidenced here.

@Bear, I refer you to the Health and Safety Executive quotation regarding exactly this, above. I realise it’s buried in a lot of text, but this isn’t simple, hence the point about ” common sense”, and it is specifically mentioned in their guidelines as being dangerous when steps are uneven, probably as stepping is a reflex-like action. Try and remember that next time you misstep and twist your ankle.

Oh, and for the last time: we haven’t done anything about it yet, I only want facts regarding the matter in hand while we think about it, ta.

I hope you live in a bungalow…

Those steps are not new. I wonder how long they have been there and how many people have not managed to navigate them without damaging themselves.

Convert, you were, as you put it, inarticulate (or rude) and so I had no idea what you were referring to. Some might say (?common sense?) that calling me an arsehole crossed a line into personal abuse. It’s certainly not necessary.

Had it occurred to you that the steps might have recently degraded? Perhaps the top slab has just sunk below the concrete. Perhaps lots of people have tripped on them (seeing as they explicitly breech the very short HSE guidelines, it seems quite possible).

Amazingly, I know MissStripes quite well, and am taking her general ability not to fall over things into account.

Sod it. OP, no offence meant but I hope the landowners Solicitors vigorously defend any claim. The fact that you said ‘what if an infirm person’ – you feel slightly uneasy that it’ll work/get a positive reaction so are trying the ‘what if an old person not someone who should really put it down to their clumsiness at the time’.

Sorry. I’ve tripped before. I’ve even had metal racking fall on my head in a shop recently. I didn’t sue or seek damages.

No, there’s 50 steps up to our flat, as it happens. Because they’re ask the same size and without unexpected lips, we travel up and down them every day without tripping. Some times multiple times per day!

This is beginning to worry me, as a designer, that people who know nothing about H+S are so keen to talk about it.

gfs – You are a student I believe from your earlier post? When graduated I think there is an excellent career ahead for you carrying a clipboard and spotting such things. You’ll be great. (That was an insult be the way, just in case your ‘common sense’ has not helped you spot it).

No more to add really. Never going to agree with you and your ilk. Go wrap yourself (or your other half) in cotton wool fella, it’s a crazy world out there.

OP – every time you step on a man made structure, are you looking at its suitability for making a claim?

Unfortunately OP would appear to be one of these people who in life now is every is everyone else’s responsibility and they are not responsible for their own actions 🙁

For the tenth time, if we wanted money, we’d have put the claim in on the day.

Convert, I’m really not interested in your irrelevancies or personal abuse.