[Closed] people always mock xc jeyboys....

yeah i look after my race bike but if the fast line meant dinting a rim id take it

You have the choice of stopping/trackstanding and waiting 5 minutes for a clear line, or you get off and run, when you can go through the undergrowth, and take very different 'lines' to the single rideable line

Only issue I've got with people walking/running sections is when they think it's OK to do it right down the middle of the trail, or block the trail while they restart, and end up slowing down riders who've just ridden the section they wouldn't.

Agreed! Always a problem at enduros, because of the mix of abilities and the multi laps. Not such a problem in XC as you only have similar riders on course at any one time and the only risk is when you're lapping people, and they really should know to get out of the way!

I don't quite get people being put out by others running at xc races, there is no prize for the person that stays on the bike the longest so you might as well do whatever is fastest it is a race afterall.

Iain

I don't quite get people being put out by others

Am I bi???? I wear Lycra shave my legs and ride a 5" full susser.

Am I bi???? I wear Lycra shave my legs and ride a 5" full susser.

I'm not being hubris, but in regard to the first few pics in this thread I would ride that on my rigid Rockhopper with my carbon rigid forks on no problems! Come on that is nothing more than a curb in a wood. Even with a high post!

seth-enslow666 - Member

Come on that is nothing more than a curb in a wood.

You're right- and the person in the picture is only 4 inches tall!

It tickles me how fussy xc riders are about their bikes and kit, but when they're racing they treat them like ****.

I'm fussy about what's on the bike, and how it's put together, so I can treat it like shit during a race and know it's going to get me to the finish. Mechanicals are something that happens to the unprepared.

Anyway, here's Katy Winton, a 17yo girl riding that drop yesterday.

[url= http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6063/6101310360_52768d2086.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6063/6101310360_52768d2086.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

mountain bikes are supposed to be treated like shit

Mechanicals are something that happens to the unprepared.

think the word you were looking for is "fanny"

I also really like that! Think it's an excellent comment, very valid!

no it's not, all the preparation in the world won't keep your bike mechanical free when riding a risky line at speed goes wrong but you probably only mean for the type of XC rider who thinks running down the track (ruining the sport) is safer 🙄
I have zero respect for runners in MTB races (even more so at WC level)
that's an easy drop and IMO any professional mtb racer should be ashamed of themselves if they don't ride.
I recently tried to watch a WC XC race on freecaster but simply couldn't bare it. IMO XC needs better, more technically challenging course design with chicken lines that take longer than main line features to bring skill back into it and penalties need to be introduced for impeding competitors flow - stopping to get off and run in the middle of singletrack forcing all those behind to do the same is cheating!, I'd run over anyone that did it to me. run if you want, but pull over and let the riders who can actually ride through.

And here are the keyboard heroes...

I'd run over anyone that did it to me

Do it then FFS - enter an XC race and run over someone who runs infront of you, nothing stopping you. Don't come on the internet being a tough guy and sounding like a prick! Go into the real world and be the prick you clearly aspire to being!

I assume you're in Champery racing the World Champs, as you're clearly better than all of them?

IMO XC needs better, more technically challenging course design with chicken lines that take longer than main line features to bring skill back

They already do-think Olympic course and Dalby to name but two in this country. The rest of your post was so idiotic that it merits no further comment 😐

No need, I've already ridden over another rider in an XC race (back before XC was quite so lame).

No need, I've already ridden over another rider in an XC race (back before XC was quite so lame).

Did you rip his head off and shit in his neck as well?

No need, I've already ridden over another rider in an XC race

No need, I've already ridden over another rider in an XC race

**swoon**

So where are you gridded at Champery?

I like where this is going...
Can I have your autograph GW?

**swoon**

So where are you gridded at Champery?

funny thing is njee, there actually is a rule to back up my view

8.3.8 A rider must act in a polite manner at all times and
permit any faster rider to overtake without obstructing.

No need, I've already ridden over another rider in an XC race (back before XC was quite so lame).

Not quite sure which courses you've been riding, but over the 20 years that I've been racing, they've got a [i]lot[/i] more technical.

funny thing is njee, there actually is a rule to back up my view

And as I said above - I totally agree with you about slower riders obstructing, it's a real pain, and again as I said above, is a big problem in the 'endurance' type races which are now so popular.

You've not answered my question - where are you gridded at Champery? I'm looking forward to watching you running over the backmarkers as you lap them so heroically.

Don't worry, I'd run over you politely,

You assume I'd be running?

Internet forum rule 8.3.8
[i]A poster must act in a polite manner at all times and permit any more grown up poster to make them look stupid if they start using the anonymity of the internet to act tough.[/i]

[img] [/img]

You've not answered my question - where are you gridded at Champery?

Oli's got a broken femur.

I'm not the one saying that it's easy and being the internet tough guy, I've got respect for the riders. 🙄

the courses are easy and I do have respect for the "riders" 8)
oh.. and you are tough in your own way 😉

I sense a bromance developing.

I'm not the one saying that it's easy and being the internet tough guy

hypothetical situation, GW, you're coming fast up to approach that drop, just before the turn right to get lined up perfectly to get airborne BIG.
the guy in front slips his pedal, stalls, and leaves you with no momentum and badly lined up. whats the best course of action if racing?

Are you in the top 10 UK riders? Certainly not, so you're probably not any better than GW or anyone else on here.

I've never professed to be, he was making all the claims about racing being easy and what not, I'm a very mediocre racer, and my technical skill is far from my strong point, happy to admit that, never said anything else.

The point was that GW (and you frankly) came on here, being all hard and saying how easy it is and how they should be embarrassed if they can't ride it, and people should be run over if they're running etc etc etc, which just makes you sound like idiots. I expect you also watch the formula 1 and point out that Hamilton really shouldn't have crashed, and how it was ridiculous that Rooney missed that shot, and what was Bolt doing getting a false start, and of course you'd have won Wimbledon 5 times if you'd had a shot?

And then for world class professional being able to ride over metre high jump, most people who don't get paid to ride can do it

Define 'most'? I'll wager a lot of money the majority of people who buy bikes would not ride that. I'd wager the majority of people who call themselves 'riders' probably wouldn't. I imagine even fewer would ride it on a 20lb hardtail with 100mm forks without dropping their saddle, flat out, 7 times in a row.

But then not everyone is a riding God like you. 🙄

not sure I understand the situation correctly Den.
if you mean I'm forced to hit the drop too slow then I'd probably wheely drop it or huck it and take the case.
if you mean if I'd run into the rider on the lip or hit it full on sideways, I'd bail. if it's just slightly sideways it might still be hippable.
oh, and I probably wouldn't be going BIG as by the looks of it there's a short landing transition, overshoot that and you'd probably loose momentum. "Gas to Flat" is not always faster 😉

njee - Do you honestly think it's idiotic to expect [b]professional[/b] mountain bike racers to have a good level of mountain bike handling skill?
a World class mtb racer shouldn't even come under the definition of "most" (or majority) they should be well above average all-round, that's my point.

IDGAF about wendyball, pingpong, karting or any other random sport you care to try and use to back up your narrow minded views.

so far you've called me an idiot and a prick and you think you're not an internerd hardman? 🙄

Might be worth watching the Trek World Racing video on midweek movies...

Can't rememember which DH rider it is talking about rolling one of the jumps instead of jumping it...

Ohhh ek.. ducks..

Me Likie XC a lot. Not enough on TV for sure, just that downhill tractor stuff,
Me likie whippet racing..
Me play in my own way XC on my local trails..
In Lycra.

Mark Datz grew up, bless 😉

Whilst I sort of agree with your vague point GW, it's how you've gone about it that makes you come across as an idiot, you've even said yourself how XC is now easy, and frankly beneath you. You are implying that when you rode XC there were features like this, and that it's now easier, and how you rode over slower riders who had the audacity to get in your way. I'm sorry, but if that doesn't make you idiot, what exactly does it make you?

As an aside, the riders aren't necessarily professional, just Elite category, the 2 aren't linked.

I'd happily call you an idiot, and a prick, as you rode over me if that's any consolation.

XC is boring on TV though, it's only the DH bits that are worth watching, and as you can get a whole compilation of those in DH, why bother!?

I've run with the bike at several races this year. Does that mean that GW and Juan don't like me? 🙁

Oh and there's bloody no way that I'd be going off that drop on my 'race' bike!

"It's BIKING and as such, faster or not, I don't find it acceptable to have people running."

Unfortunately for you, races are won on who is the fastest round a given number of laps/in a given time, and are not trackstand competitions in disguise.

The vast majority of time spent in a bike race is, of course, riding. There are, however, occasions, where it is necessary to run: at a bottleneck when reaching the singletrack, or when riders in front are having difficulty on a technical section, etc. You can either ardently stand there, professing your stance how it is a bike race and you should ride and not walk blah blah blah, or not lose places unnecessarily and do the smart thing - which is it to be?

On another note, one thing that the mix of spectating at races such as the Dalby World Cup, watching them on Freecaster and actually having a go at a few myself has taught me is that no matter how slow the pros look and no matter how easy they make it look in real life or how slow their riding seems on Freecaster, and regardless of the extent you can think to yourself 'they're not going [i]that[/i] fast' - if you actually try and ride the section yourself, in real life, under the same conditions they are riding it, and [i]then[/i] look at how fast they are clearing it, you certainly won't be thinking that to yourself any more.

Enduros such as last weekend's Gorrick 12 hour are great in this regard - you're riding the same course, at the same time, in the same conditions that Elite riders are riding as fast as you can so you know just how difficult/boggy/slow going the soil is but when an Elite rockets past you your jaw simply drops at the speed and power these athletes have. When it rained and things got muddy I remember many people just had difficulty staying on their bikes and were mincing through the mud and them a PedalOn rider rocketed past me riding at a pace I'm pretty sure is faster than I've ever seen someone ride in the dry during the daytime rather than when it's boggy at night.

The point I'm making is that no matter how slow the top riders look due to photographic factors or how easy technical sections look on photographs, you have to always keep in mind that they're doing it a hell of a lot quicker than you or I ever could.

njee - Get your facts straight before you go looking to justify your name calling.
I didn't once say XC was beneath me.
I said WC XC courses are too easy.
I didn't imply there were man made drops on XC courses back when I raced XC at all (there were plenty natural ones tho)
as for riding over another rider during a race, whenever I've done this it's been my decision and I'll stand by it, you can't possibly even know whether it was the safest option in the situation or not.

And yes, I do know the difference between Elite Cat and Professional (switch my wording of "professional" to "Elite" if it makes you happier it won't change my view, top level mtb racers should be able to ride well off-road, it's a no-brainer! :roll:[b]

as for riding over another rider during a race, whenever I've done this it's been my decision and I'll stand by it, you can't possibly even know whether it was the safest option in the situation or not.

Of course it has - I can't imagine the rider in front decided he wanted you to ride over him and lay down on the trail!

Again, it's not your point, it's how you're making it that I take issue with. I've also ridden over people before (and been ridden over), but I'd not boast about it and use it as a threat. I can think of 2 specific instances, both where people crashed in front of me and I had nowhere to go. You implied that you have done it because people were just being slower than you wanted to go. Again, if that doesn't make you an idiot (if only for the implication, and not correcting me) what does it make you?

Do you think people are encouraged into the sport when quick riders like you are actually threatening them with bodily harm if they don't get out of your way?

Tom B - Member

I've run with the bike at several races this year. Does that mean that GW and Juan don't like me?

Oh and there's bloody no way that I'd be going off that drop on my 'race' bike!

occasions, where it is necessary to run: at a bottleneck when reaching the singletrack, or when riders in front are having difficulty on a technical section

clever course design/taping and field size can help minimise/alleviate these situations.

And indeed does - to the greatest extent possible. But it is an MTB race, there has to be SOME point at which the fireroad turns into singletrack and then there will inevitably be a bottleneck. They have long start loops on World Cup races but the difference between the top level athletes is so miniscule as they're all pushing the limits of their performance, that they still enter the singletrack together.

Also, an MTB race is carnage for God's sake due to its very nature - I do hope you're not suggesting that 'clever course design' can ALWAYS alleviate situations where riders crash and others are directly behind them?

instead of focusing on this one line, [b]"I'd run over anyone that did it to me."[/b]
read back it in context..

[b]stopping to get off and run in the middle of singletrack forcing all those behind to do the same is cheating!, I'd run over anyone that did it to me. [u]run if you want, but pull over and let the riders who can actually ride through.[/u] [/b]

Do you think people are encouraged into the sport when quick riders like you are actually threatening them with bodily harm if they don't get out of your way?

I suppose I get what you are saying about riders running with the bike. Its sort of makes it a triathlon as opposed to a bike race! Then surely the tracks should be made as if you are running a lot then you will be loosing time? More down hill sections, faster longer straights. Then if you were going to be running you would be loosing time. I suppose its not always possible due to riding conditions and what not though. Also you can't start making XC a DH light.

I can imagine watching an XC race on TV or live and then seeing lots of 7 stone jockeys whips dismounting and running a mile down the track to be quite boring and not very good for the sport.

Its sort of makes it a triathlon as opposed to a bike race!

You have to remember that they're running for miniscule amounts of time - perhaps 30 seconds max on the first lap in a 1h 30m race... that rather helps to put it in context, hence I don't see why some are getting so peeved by it...

Less than 30 seconds I'd say, more like 5.
We shouldn't be comparing those that get off and run in a full on Xc race to those doing the same in an Enduro or 24 even a DH.
In an XC race the bits that most STWers regard as technical are really obstacles. Remember we are talking old fashioned cross country, the obstacles replace what in the day might have been a fallen tree or a broken fence. The disruption is part of the race hence the importance of being out in front.
That's why it's important to recce the course a few times, and why you have to have a good start.
An example. At my local XC circuit you have a long wide run out from the start, it narrows to a climb then at the top it becomes downhill single track. So you have to race your lungs out to be near the front and therefore be able to get down the singletrack. If you can't cut it you'll be forced to dab and run down the singletrack. That looks like mincing, but it's better than stopping and loosing a few places.

I've never done downhill, do you seriously catch your minute man? that would make me froth.
At enduros and 12/24s you'll have alsorts. At Sandwell there was a lady crying on her first lap as the faster riders had scared her to death. You'll have people happy to turn what's a one hour lap for you into four hours, but and I don't mean to be rude if you seriously can't factor that into your ride you must be dim. Expect the 'for fun' riders to slow you down, and expect to be overtaken by the World Champion.

The point was that GW (and you frankly) came on here, being all hard and saying how easy it is and how they should be embarrassed if they can't ride it

I'm not sure I've ever actually refused to ride the TV - I'd be interested to, as I know a number of riders who have done so and said it's a good event. My bigger issue is that I don't like your online persona at all (you rightly say we've clashed on this sort of thing many times), and whilst it's a very generous offer of you to put me up I'm not interested in wasting money and time getting there to spend with time someone I may well not like.

I've also said, repeatedly, that I'm not a very good rider technically, I'm sure most of the TV would be well beyond my limited skill repertoir, I'm not really sure why you feel the need to question my skill level - which I'm very frank about.

There's a chance I'd ride that drop, having looked at it for a while and 'ummed' and 'ahhed' plenty, but I'd not take it as a given. If I did do it though it would be on my 100mm travel bike with the saddle up, as that's all I know.

Surely your saying that you'd do it with the saddle down completely misses the point? Or would you stop at the top (angering GW) to lower your saddle, ride it, stop in the landing zone to put it back up and carry on?

Also you can't start making XC a DH light

You have to remember that they're running for miniscule amounts of time

In an XC race the bits that most STWers regard as technical are really obstacles. Remember we are talking old fashioned cross country, the obstacles replace what in the day might have been a fallen tree or a broken fence. The disruption is part of the race hence the importance of being out in front.

DH it's usually 30s man (except for Elite) and no you rarely catch your 30s man unless he's had problems, the start times are seeded you see? and if you do catch him, he'll 99% of the time know you're coming (they'll hear Marshall's whistles or the faster rider coming) and pull over somewhere safe to let you pass.. if they don't you are entitled to a re-run! DH racing has far better etiquette than XC racing and is friendlier, standing at the side of the track betwen sectioning/pushing and chatting about the track/lines etc. on practice day probably helps.

way to miss the point (on so many levels) njee 😐
I have lowered my saddle at the top of a climb in an XC race without selfishly impeding anyone's progress but my own, I'm sure juan's clever enough not to hold anyone up while lowering his too. 🙄

What's the TV?
For what it's worth I'd never do a 1 metre jump or drop, I'd be ****ed if there was one on the circuit. I think 1/2 metre would be my limit on my old race hardtail. One of the problems was that my saddle height and stem length was always maxed for pedaling efficiency. I once bunny hopped a falen tree mid race, never managed it again though.
That said I have broken my fair share of bones through XC jey'ing.

DH racing has far better etiquette than XC racing and is friendlier, standing at the side of the track betwen sectioning/pushing and chatting about the track/lines etc. on practice day probably helps.

You get that in XC too if you pre-ride the day before, the top guys will often give advice on lines and what not.

The comment about ettiquette isn't really valid as DH is primarily a race against the clock, not the other riders. The start of an XC race can be very 'elbows out' but it's a byproduct of the style of race, it's nothing to do with ettiquette, that just seems a little daft to derive such a conclusion.

XC has evolved plenty, races are now shorter and generally more technical for a start.

you impeded following riders' progress.

The point of running techy bits is it can be quicker than riding it for some people

isn't it time XC evolved a little? (afterall riding and bikes have)

That said I have broken my fair share of bones through XC jey'ing.

So has GW, just not his own.

What's the TV?

The Trans Vesubienne - a famously technical multi-day stage race in France, which Juan has down as the epitome of what XC racing should be.

I have lowered my saddle at the top of a climb in an XC race without selfishly impeding anyone's progress but my own

With all due respect, you've presumably not raced XC at any reasonable level then - do that once a lap on a 4 lap race and you hand away a minute, which is rather a lot of time! Sure you have also missed the point if you're saying you'd not ride it with your saddle up?

Another thing to remember, XC will and should always favour the fitest/fastest riders. It is getting more technical, but it will have to stop short of becoming freeride.
And you have to respect those riders that got into XC when it was as it is now i.e like me....old and straight from the road, didn't even have a BMX or mountainbike in my youth.

So has GW, just not his own

If GW is a four foot nothing very angry female XC racer who floored me with her frame at a bottleneck, then yes we've met.

Edric 64 - Member

you impeded following riders' progress.

The point of running techy bits is it can be quicker than riding it for some people

I believe you should have black grade obstacles with chicken runs with a few seconds penalty - and that anyone running a section must stand for a few seconds in a penalty box to ensure its slower than riding.

Make them put the bikes on their heads and spin around on the spot 10 times maybe

18 - 30s Catagory.

Whereby, disorientated, they ride straight back up the descent 😉

There are, however, occasions, where it is necessary to run: at a bottleneck when reaching the singletrack

Hmm.. so here's a question.. Last time I did Margam there was a massive bottleneck at the oak tree sharp left hander, and blokes were pulling up well behind me, shouldering their bikes and trampling way around through the undergrowth to barge in in front of everyone. Is that really fair?

Oh and for those people commenting on the first page, it's actually much easier than you think to ride bigger stuff on a XC race whippet machine. They are a lot lighter, more direct and easier to handle so that makes it easier - you just have to nail the landings properly, nice and smoothly 🙂 The only thing that's a struggle on my 80mm XC bike is fast rocky bits. As for the saddle - just get your weight back! 🙂

GW to clarify....you're saying that you have climbed off your bike at the top of a climb and dropped your saddle in a xc race?

If so, did you raise it at the start of the said climb on the next lap? Over 4 laps that'd mean that you had to stop at least 8 times....20 seconds per times gives you over 2 minutes of time lost-in my last race that would have cost me 3 places.

Nick did you ride all of the A lines at Dalby this year?

The comment about ettiquette isn't really valid as DH is primarily a race against the clock, not the other riders.

If so, did you raise it at the start of the said climb on the next lap? Over 4 laps that'd mean that you had to stop at least 8 times....20 seconds per times gives you over 2 minutes of time lost-in my last race that would have cost me 3 places.

shouldering their bikes and trampling way around through the undergrowth to barge in in front of everyone. Is that really fair?

Quite normal for lap one on some courses. Never raced where it's happened more than once.

Oh and for those people commenting on the first page, it's actually much easier than you think to ride bigger stuff on a XC race whippet machine. They are a lot lighter, more direct and easier to handle so that makes it easier - you just have to nail the landings properly, nice and smoothly The only thing that's a struggle on my 80mm XC bike is fast rocky bits. As for the saddle - just get your weight back

All my XC race bikes have nowhere near as good technically as any trail bike I've had. And I never get the good line in a race, or rarely. I just take what's going. Nail the landings and smoothly! words that I've never used in my experience of XC racing.

Hang on... you said that DH riders exhibit better etiquette because they let slower riders past. You said:

and if you do catch him, he'll 99% of the time know you're coming (they'll hear Marshall's whistles or the faster rider coming) and pull over somewhere safe to let you pass.. if they don't you are entitled to a re-run! DH racing has far better etiquette than XC racing

You referred to a race situation, specifically. Now you're saying in practice. In practice in XC the same happens, if people are in a different category, they get out of the way, if people have a mechanical, then they get out of the way. However, if you just catch someone in your race they shouldn't have to move out of the way, that's not poor etiquette by XC racers, it's part of it.

I quite liked entering races/events/whatever until I read this thread. Now I am scared I am going to get in someone's way....or my walking/running/mincing will be frowned upon.... 🙄

There's a bit of difference between DH and XC in the way that they're raced though-DH is a time trial, whereas XC is a mass start event so dealing with others around you is all part of it.

GW what race was this in the that you were altering seatpost heights? What category was it too?

stumpy01
Just keep entering them and accept that some people will be faster and some slower. If someone holds me up then that's tough....I'm racing he is racing.
Of course in a perfect world there wouldn't be anyone else on the course to dare be in front of me going slower.

Edit; Or faster 😳

I'm sure juan's clever enough not to hold anyone up while lowering his too.

GW what race was this in the that you were altering seatpost heights?

Well i did that at inners for busa circa 2005 😀

juan in all fairness we are talking hour plus cross country racing here.
You are talking about this thing.
[img] http://blog.rastafari-riders.fr/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/raid-avalanche_02.jp g" target="_blank">http://blog.rastafari-riders.fr/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/raid-avalanche_02.jp g"/> &h=350&w=570&zc=1[/img]

Is that not what happens when 'normal' people (students) try and ride difficult stuff with seats up their arses? 😛

I watched a video of the Mega the other night and there were loads of riders walking on the snow at the start because it was quicker than riding.

Is that wrong too?

njee - that was a direct answer to oldgit's question regarding "minute men"

However, if you just catch someone in your race they shouldn't have to move out of the way, that's not poor etiquette by XC racers, it's part of it

tom - SXC Glentress can't remember what year