Osbourne says no to currency union.

Surely it will only be deemed untrustworthy if there is no good reason for not contributing? If the reason is that iScotland wasn’t given a fair share of the assets then no one would expect them to contribute all of their part of the historic debt. Quid pro quo and all that.

Very that analogy try again.

Now in a Free Yorkshire tha’d pay Nowt for owt.

Was you born in Englanfshire

Edit, spelling, to much Pure North

They have a bit of a tiff and the 10% guy runs off with 10% of the car and refuses to meet the remainder of his obliged payments.

Bingo – that’s why it’s not a technical default because we’d be leaving that 10% of the car behind. We’d stop paying for our part of the loan, but we’d not be taking 10% of the car. Mr 90% can’t afford the repayments for 90% of the car – maybe he should do his best to keep on good terms with Mr 10% so that he can afford to make the repayments.

Or a different way of putting it – it’s totally different because Mr 90% has used his size and weight to try and bully poor wee stupid Mr 10% into leaving the 10% of the car behind. Not really fair to ask Mr 10% to continue to pay if he has no access to the car now is it?

Surely it will only be deemed untrustworthy if there is no good reason for not contributing? If the reason is that iScotland wasn’t given a fair share of the assets then no one would expect them to contribute all of their part of the historic debt. Quid pro quo and all that.

Seems a reasonable position, but you are gambling that the people you want to lend you the money have the same definition of ‘good reason’.
THM and others seem to be suggesting that the people with all the money to lend won’t agree with your definition of an asset.

Scotroutes – i agree, and i doubt Scotland will NOT get a decent and fair shair of the assets.
But the Currency Union isn’t on the table, no matter how the SNP/Yes Scotland posture and bluster, threatening not to pay towards that debt, it will not happen due to the extremely strong public views on it in the rest of the UK.
No one really wants to deny Scotland a fair share of assets but we aren’t going to risk our pensions etc to prop up what will be a competitor State.
You wouldn’t do it, why should you expect us to do so?

Wanmankylung, what you appear to be unable to digest is the fact that Scotland would be incredibly weak in the post yes negotiations, she wants a great deal from the rUK. The most fundamental and looming thing is that iScotland wants HMRC to continue collecting its taxes (indeed it doesn’t even have its own database of taxpayers, assets, land registration etc) Without being able to collect taxes any modern country would quickly fall apart.

An independent Scotland, in the hypothetical situation we’re discussing of defaulting (technically, morally or otherwise) on the debt, even if it was allowed independence (which remains in the gift of the UK parliament) could end up with no assets apart from those fixed in Scotland, no transitional services from UK institutions, an angry southern neighbour (with a Veto on it’s EU membership) and a very bad image to the international markets.

If you think that situation is a bargain then fair enough, but from my perspective it would cripple iScotland from the outset.

ninfan – Member
Wanmankylung, what you appear to be unable to digest is the fact that Scotland would be incredibly weak in the post yes negotiations, she wants a great deal from the rUK. The most fundamental and looming thing is that iScotland wants HMRC to continue collecting its taxes (indeed it doesn’t even have its own database of taxpayers, assets, land registration etc) Without being able to collect taxes any modern country would quickly fall apart.

An independent Scotland, in the hypothetical situation we’re discussing of defaulting (technically, morally or otherwise) on the debt could end up with no assets apart from those fixed in Scotland, no transitional services from UK institutions, an angry southern neighbour (with a Veto on it’s EU membership) and a very bad image to the international markets.

If you think that situation is a bargain then fair enough, but from my perspective it would cripple iScotland from the outset.Love how you state as fact. It’s just like your opinion, dude. 😆

The negotiations would be based upon a whole pile of things. Debt and currency would only be two of those.

rUK’s position is no on currency. Scotlands position may be no to debt. There may be many other things which would need to be negotiated. You have to look at the bigger picture.

Dont overlook the cost of setting up Scotlands version of the HMRC, DVLA, Passport agency, Highways agency, etc… which wont be cheap. In order to fund this either Scotland will have to borrow from the financial markets (and its going to need a central bank to do so) or come to some compromise with rUK over a settlement figure.

Do Scots really think the rUK would let them get away with not paying any of the debt? After independence they will be told what to pay and then they will do it. They will not all of a sudden gain the ability to stand up to the English. After all they have just spent the last 300 years having everything done for them by us, it takes time to learn to stand on your own two feet boys.

Oh well, if THM says that’s true then it must be 😆

Seosamh77 – which part precisely would you like to take issue with ?

Is it my opinion that Scotland needs HMRC to continue collecting its taxes? It even says it in the White Paper

There will be a transition phase after independence where, by agreement with HM Revenue & Customs, taxes would continue to be collected through existing HMRC systems.

😀

Under your anology Wanman, who does the bank manager blame and who will he be v reluctant to lend to again. Simple isn’t it?

Wanman, I suspect a multi here?!?

Oh well, if THM says that’s true then it must be

Glad, you are getting it.

Ninfan, quoting yS/FC stuff back to nats is clearly a waste of time. Just go back to the nice wee currency option graphic a few pages back and spot the missing option. The one that NW was trying to suggest (even more pages back)was given real consideration is conspicuous by its omission. Funny that.

See no evil etc……

fasternotfatter – Member
Do Scots really think the rUK would let them get away with not paying any of the debt? After independence they will be told what to pay and then they will do it. They will not all of a sudden gain the ability to stand up to the English. After all they have just spent the last 300 years having everything done for them by us, it takes time to learn to stand on your own two feet boys.

here’s another one that thinks the empire still rules the world! 😆

but we’d not be taking 10% of the car

It’s not a perfect analogy by any stretch, I could have used 2 fat people taking out a lone to buy a huge cake that they eat up front. That would have been better.

The cash has already been spent on an asset that has been irretrievably consumed, and the liability for furnishing the debt remains.

You could argue that the bank manager was a fool for allowing a loan to buy a big cake, but if they’ll pay an acceptable rate of interest and the risk looks good, what the hell!

what you appear to be unable to digest is the fact that Scotland would be incredibly weak in the post yes negotiations, she wants a great deal from the rUK.

I am perfectly capable of judging for myself how strong or otherwise my country would be during negotiations. My opinion differs from your somewhat. Fair and equitable remember….

indeed it doesn’t even have its own database of taxpayers, assets, land registration etc

Surely HMRC would be an asset to be shared if things are to be fair and equitable…

no assets apart from those fixed in Scotland, no transitional services from UK institutions

Ooh oooh ooooh – here comes fair and equitable again…

with a Veto on it’s EU membership

Would that be the same EU that rUK seems to be wanting to leave. We could just wait until you’ve left and try again.

an angry southern neighbour

Dry your eyes sweetheart, you’ll get over being dumped. It just takes time. 😉

Except that it hasn’t and so your analogy falls apart

scotroutes – Member
whimbrel »
THM and others seem to be suggesting that the people with all the money to lend won’t agree with your definition of an asset.

Oh well, if THM says that’s true then it must be

As I said, it appears to be a gamble.
Interesting times in the event of a Yes.

Under your anology Wanman, who does the bank manager blame and who will he be v reluctant to lend to again. Simple isn’t it?

My mother getting a loan analogy? He blames my mother obviously because I’ve never been into the bank and he may not even know that I exist.

Except that it hasn’t and so your analogy falls apart

I was referring to just the cake, to keep it simple.

ninfan – Member
Seosamh77 – which part precisely would you like to take issue with ?

Is it my opinion that Scotland needs HMRC to continue collecting its taxes? It even says it in the White Paper

There will be a transition phase after independence where, by agreement with HM Revenue & Customs, taxes would continue to be collected through existing HMRC systems.
your insistance that England owns everything! 😆

here’s another one that thinks the empire still rules the world!

A country with the 6th highest GDP in the world vs a country that will be as relevant on the world stage as the republic of Ireland. You are going to be small for a very long time 🙁

It’s not a perfect analogy by any stretch, I could have used 2 fat people taking out a lone to buy a huge cake that they eat up front. That would have been better.

Is the cake loan in the name of one person? Well that person had better play nice with the other one if the dont want to default on their cake loan payments.

My mother getting a loan analogy? He blames my mother obviously because I’ve never been into the bank and he may not even know that I exist.

But you’ve said a lot of things on the TV that the bank manager has seen and makes him a bit worried.

Surely HMRC would be an asset to be shared if things are to be fair and equitable…

ah, so you’re not actually leaving behind the car, you want to be able to take the wheels do you 😆

As I said, it appears to be a gamble.
Interesting times in the event of a Yes.

^^^This

There are so many unknowns around a Yes vote that no one really knows what they are voting for.

It seems like a very big gamble.

Of course. We’re even prepared to pay for them.

Where does all this “we have been paying for 10% of everything come from? You have been paying 10% and getting at least 9% back. Don’t spend your 1% all at once boys.

That is a very patronising and foolhardy way to view investors.

But I was referring to the 90/10 one but it’s the same thing. Is confidence that low that you think investors have never heard of Scotland? I know it’s desperate when your man is well and truly caught with his pants down but the level of desperation now being reached is genuinely pathetic for a wonderful place like Scotland. Very sad.

ah, so you’re actually not leaving behind the car, you want to be able to take the wheels do you

Nah – i’ll pay for the parts that I take. As I’ve always said that I would. I’ll even take some parts that I have no use for – just to be fair.

There are so many unknowns around a Yes No vote that no one really knows what they are voting for.

FTFY.

So long as Scotland has a healthy economy and is able to pay its way, it will have no problem borrowing money one way or another if it “defaults” by reneging on its portion of the debt. Investors are an endearing combination of greedy, forgetful and optimistic.

Believing that somehow the sky over Scotland will fall in is delusional.

But I was referring to the 90/10 one but it’s the same thing.

The bank manager will pursue the person whose name is on the credit agreement…. You should know that.

Believing that somehow the sky will fall in is delusional.

Exactly this. ^

Former prime minister Gordon Brown has appeared alongside Alistair Darling to call on Scottish voters to reject independence.

That’s a ****** dream team right there. 😀

Nah – i’ll pay for the parts that I take. As I’ve always said that I would.

Fine, we’ve got a deal – that’ll be 100 billion quid please 😈

There are so many unknowns around both the Yes and No votes that no one really knows what they are voting for.

FTFY 🙂

Wanman, the analogy soon falls flat when you apply it to the EU. Imagine the bank happened to be Deustche bank or BNP Paribas. Are you still assuming that he won’t have recognising you as part of the party then!!! Sorry we only allow entrance to those whose name is on the membership card. Remember that!!! 😉

Desperate times indeed. C’mon the must be a better argument than that – is is important after all.

There are so many unknowns around a Yes No vote that no one really knows what they are voting for.

FTFY.[/quote]

Errrr, a No vote will broadly keep things similar to as they are now (not perfect, but you know where you are)

Yes just sounds like chaos.

I think wanmankylung is an alt. We’ve had x number of pages of ludicrous, unthinking nationalist pish, and then suddenly he’s posting as though there are some cogs turning. No t that I agree with him/her, but it’s a welcome change

Errrr, a No vote will broadly keep things similar to as they are now (not perfect, but you know where you are)

The Scottish language has that rarest of things – the double positive – it applies here and goes something like this: Aye Right.

Imagine the bank happened to be Deustche bank or BNP Paribas. Are you still assuming that he won’t have recognising you as part of the party then!

Nah, but I’m predicting that they would also know the full ins and outs of the situation and appreciate that Scotland has no debt to default on.

You are going to be small for a very long time

I’m not sure many actually give a **** tbh.

I don’t.

fasternotfatter – Member
Do Scots really think the rUK would let them get away with not paying any of the debt? After independence they will be told what to pay and then they will do it. They will not all of a sudden gain the ability to stand up to the English. After all they have just spent the last 300 years having everything done for them by us, it takes time to learn to stand on your own two feet boys.

Ah,more little Englander pish.Longs for the days when the butchers apron hung over half the world.