Osbourne says no to currency union.

It’s her money and she’s entitled to her opinion.

Maybe the money could be used to bus in some Scottish Labour stooges to the public debates that BT constantly refuse to attend.

So… how many people in this thread actually have a vote?

So… how many people in this thread actually have a vote?

We’ve done this before – on average the people who have a vote are on the Yes side, the people who don’t have a vote are on the No side. There are notable exceptions of course.

me

So… how many people in this thread actually have a vote?

My wife and I do.

I spoke to someone this week who said she “liked the idea of independence” but “didn’t have faith in Scots to run our country”.

“What happens to my driving licence and passport?”

“How much does that cost me if I need to change them?”

“I don’t trust him to run the country”

This lady is a very outgoing and seemingly self-confident person who has built up her own successful small business over the past 8 years and this makes me find her outlook all the more depressing.

Ultimately, Scotland will get what it deserves. I really fear for a No vote.

All the gnashing of teeth is just distraction. The question should be very simple. Should the country govern itself or not?

I’m sure it will be a No. The combination of those fearful of change, those self-loathing Scots who think we are incapable, and the combination of the mass media being generally against it will, I think, be too much to overcome.

Example, my own mother refuses to vote Yes because “Salmond is a wee Hitler” and “he’ll let the Asians take over”.

You can’t reason with that mindset.

Meanwhile a small business owner was just assaulted (for real, not someone being nasty on Twitter) for displaying a Yes sticker in his window. Police have got the CCTV.

Will he get a big splash in tomorrow’s papers?

But then you can’t reason either with a mindset that dismisses as bullying, or whatever, any view other than your own. The iS campaign has done that so much it is as much of a turnoff as the No campign’s lack of imagination.

I keep hoping for something more useful with which to consider which way to vote but at the moment it is all heat and no light. So it is back to the White Paper which is so thin it isn’t enough for a soap script let alone the formation of a state.

Example, my own mother refuses to vote Yes because “Salmond is a wee Hitler” and “he’ll let the Asians take over”.

I had a funny discussion with my windowcleaner – known him for over 12 years, really nice decent bloke, but he just announced that he’d voted UKIP in the last elections because he’s worried about immigration. However he’s voting Yes because he thinks an independent Scotland will be better able to control it.

We can all pontificate, the two sides can try to shape the debate, but people will vote because of the strangest reasons.

I’m sure it will be a No. The combination of those fearful of change, those self-loathing Scots who think we are incapable, and the combination of the mass media being generally against it will, I think, be too much to overcome.

I see you missed out those people that genuinely believe we’re all better off in the union.
If I was Scottish and voting no I’d be calling you swears.

Well, apart from being factually wrong, since she isn’t the daughter in law of Pat Lally as they had claimed (oops, people in glass houses accusing other people of fibbing eh!)

How do you think that his actions fitted in with the civil service code Ben?

And as for the abuse that doesn’t exist, yes, clearly its all in their head, no abuse of JK Rowling, nothing to see here, move along people…

voted UKIP in the last elections because he’s worried about immigration. However he’s voting Yes because he thinks an independent Scotland will be better able to control it.

Brilliant – so does that make him a Little Scotlander? or is he only voting UKIP because he’s impressionable and the BBC have been beaming in Farage from abroad, whilst supposedly also brainwashing people to vote No?

those self-loathing Scots

Nice. The Zionists call any Jew who refuses to embrace their racist brutal regime “self-haters”. It’s such an easy cop out.

ninfan – Member
Brilliant – so does that make him a Little Scotlander? or is he only voting UKIP because he’s impressionable and the BBC have been beaming in Farage from abroad, whilst supposedly also brainwashing people to vote No?

Remind me what % of the vote UKIP got in England again?

One person on Twitter appears to have called her a Quisling, which wasn’t nice.

It’s a better class of insult than you normally get on Twitter, tbf.

It was followed by lots of people asking what a Quisling was 😉

Interesting the abuse she suffered and the notoriety. The Wier’s (euro-millions winners) have given the YS campaign £5.5m and it’s hardly mentioned. Now it’s clearly their money to do with what they want but their charitable foundation just gave out £150k for various Scottish projects (avg £2,500 each) and it does seem bizarre to give so much more for a referendum campaign.

Interesting the abuse she suffered and the notoriety.

We’re talking about two different people here. The person who was described by a nat as : “A liar now and forever whatever the outcome of the vote, a known Quisling and collaborator” was Claire Lally.

The person who doesn’t pay her taxes and has “never had to struggle frm day 2 day in her life” is JK Rowling.

Beware, the nats ill-informed character assassinations extend beyond one person.

The Wier’s (euro-millions winners) have given the YS campaign £5.5m and it’s hardly mentioned.

😯

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/11/euromillions-lottery-winners-colin-chris-weir-donate-bulk-yes-scotland-pro-independence-campaign

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10823322/Yes-Scotland-almost-entirely-bankrolled-by-lottery-winners.html

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/lottery-winning-weirs-donate-25m-more-to-the-yes-campaign.24190350

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2625863/Lottery-pairs-2-5m-Scots-Couple-provided-80-funding-yes-campaign.html

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/euromillions-winners-give-yes-scotland-another-1m-1-3325089

Etc etc

They got a lot of abuse, and from proper newspapers not idiots on Twitter.

@ernie – I was referring to some of the Tweets posted earlier, they looked quite abusive to me. Plus some stuff I’ve seen on other news websites under the article covering her donation.

Ben, jambalaya claim was that the Wier have given the YS campaign £5.5m and it’s hardly mentioned. I’m not not sure why you presumably think that giving 5 examples of where it has been mentioned undermines that claim. Nor can I see the the abuse that the Wiers got from “proper newspapers not idiots on Twitter”. Which newspapers were those ?

bencooper – Member

They got a lot of abuse, and from proper newspapers not idiots on Twitter.

You’re right; it was widely reported with an unpleasant and sneering tone, but that’s not really the same as being called a #bitch by a charity. 😆 (n.b. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they’ve got a work experience kiddy working their twitter account or they’ve been fraped, but still, it’s up 4 hours later FFS!)

Edit:

As soon as I posted, this appeared on their site:

DISCLAIMER
The Dignity Project
Has had it’s Twitter account hacked
We are not responsible for any tweets that have been sent.
As a charity we do not take any political stance and our opinion is people are free to donate to whoever they choose.

So there we go.

Sampling Twitter for opinion, especially when it’s one end for a spectrum really should be banned, for everyone sake. The place is full of idiots and extremists who always seem to be held up as an example of typical. Its bullshit and really winds me up.

Here are some examples of the worst anti Scottish sentiment that I have seen.

In no way is it in the bag for either side. I waver between optimism that Scots are smart enough to choose the Yes option, and pessimism that too many Scots are too scared, servile or self-interested to do so.

The combination of those fearful of change, those self-loathing Scots who think we are incapable, and the combination of the mass media being generally against it will, I think, be too much to overcome.

Both comments come from yes supporters on here. Just because someone does not agree with you it does not make them “scared, servile or self-interested” or “self-loathing Scots”. The fact that the majority of Scots are against independence means that the two yes supporters that made these comments actually look down on the majority of Scots.

The fact that the majority of Scots are against independence means that the two yes supporters that made these comments actually look down on the majority of Scots.

That’s ok, they’re obviously not even properly Scottish.

sbob – Member

I’m sure it will be a No. The combination of those fearful of change, those self-loathing Scots who think we are incapable, and the combination of the mass media being generally against it will, I think, be too much to overcome.

I see you missed out those people that genuinely believe we’re all better off in the union.[/quote]

Wait a sec… He didn’t say that all No voters fall into those categories- he said that the combination of those 3 factors might be too much to overcome. That’s not the same thing.

Wait a sec… He didn’t say that all No voters fall into those categories- he said that the combination of those 3 factors might be too much to overcome. That’s not the same thing.

Yes, I’m sure that is exactly what he meant, which he probably why he instantly corrected me.

We appear to be arguing over which side is the rudest when we argue
Surprisingly we are siding with whichever way we would vote [ if we could] surprising eh.
It is almost as if the facts are irrelevant.

sbob – Member

Yes, I’m sure that is exactly what he meant, which he probably why he instantly corrected me.

To be fair, normal people don’t hang around the independence thread all day- the lack of a further post is probably evidence of good character 😆

I think the comment could be meant either way but why attribute to unpleasantness what could be down to a difference between writing and reading?

I think the comment could be meant either way but why attribute to unpleasantness what could be down to a difference between writing and reading?

A double A grade in GCSE English, quite simply. 💡

Read the post in its entirety, understand the context, then have another think about it.

Yes, because obviously I didn’t read the post first time round, I just quoted randomly 😕 What you’re doing is taking comments that are (or, at least, could be) aimed at a specific cross-section of the Scottish public, and choosing to interpret them as being aimed at everyone. Not so much reading between the lines, as writing extra lines between the ones that are there.

Surprisingly we are siding with whichever way we would vote [ if we could] surprising eh.
It is almost as if the facts are irrelevant.

Made-up facts are so much more fun and interesting than the boring old regular ones.

Made-up facts are so much more fun and interesting than the boring old regular ones.

Indeed, that’s why both this thread and Yes and No campaigns are full of them 😉

Thanks Northwind. I mulled it over and should probably poke myself in the eye for bothering to respond bit here we go.

There are those who are dead cert yes and those who are dead cert no. If we believe the Polls the gap is closing therefore it will be the undecideds who swing the vote.

Of this group there are those who fear change and there are those who I label self-loathers who think we are so inadequate we rely on those inhabitants of The House of Commons to keep us on an even keel. There is no mention of those who just think the Union is a good thing as common sense dictates they will be in the minds made up No category.

These people who like the idea of independence but think Scots are inadequate I refer to as self loathers. These folks seem to predominantly be of a Scottish Labour persuasion.

Not sure how we got onto zionism? Oh, aye – it was selective quoting.

To be fair you’ve probably got a few issues yourself if you go around labeling people as “self-loathers”.

Shalom

Yeah probably a bit of intolerance of others’ opinion, a hefty degree of sarcasm and a bit of a moral superiority complex, hence why i’m persisting in wasting time replying to someone with exactly the same traits

oldnpastit – Member
Surprisingly we are siding with whichever way we would vote [ if we could] surprising eh.
It is almost as if the facts are irrelevant.

Made-up facts are so much more fun and interesting than the boring old regular ones.

Indeed and there is a free-to-view bumper annual of rib-ticklers available for everyone

http://82.113.138.107/00439021.pdf

No wonder this guy gets booked up to entertain folk.

Here are some examples of the worst anti Scottish sentiment that I have seen

Ha, I knew that someone would leap on what I said. What I said was that I was worried that too many would be scared, servile or self-interested. I did not say that all Scots were, or that all on the No side were. But hey, you carry on with your assumptions of what I think.

That’s ok, they’re obviously not even properly Scottish.

I don’t even know what that means – I was born in Scotland by my parents aren’t Scottish, does that help you?

Give g back to what I said, what bits of it specifically are problematic? We know that people are scared to vote Yes – that’s why Better Together have been playing the fear card so often. We won’t have the pound, we won’t have pensions, we won’t have a decent health service, etc. We know that people are self-interested – that’s why personal finances are such a big deal in the referendum, lots of people are concerned about how it’ll affect their finances. Is it the word “servile” that’s the problem?

There are those who are dead cert yes and those who are dead cert no. If we believe the Polls the gap is closing therefore it will be the undecideds who swing the vote.

@grantus, when I look at the polls I see a substantial lead for No over Yes, if things stay the same the same No wins. The undecided’s will only change the outcome if 1) they vote and historically undecideds tend to not vote 2) a significant majority of them vote Yes, a landslide to Yes if you like. So the advantage is very clearly with the No camp, this is how it’s been from the start.