Osbourne says no to currency union.

For example, take this advert:

Guaranteed? By whom? No party has committed themselves to any substantial more powers after a No vote. It’s stuff like that that is insulting – treating the public like mugs.

athgray
I have not seen a single Better Together poster or advert, and certainly don’t use them here to back up what I feel.

duckman
but note yours doesn’t extend to the scaremongering vote no borders cinema ad that GOSH objected to last week

I cannot comment on an advert I have not seen. I would say that I am sure I would be as appalled by Better Together adverts as Yes voters should be about theirs. Also, I reckon the Yes campaign and propaganda is more visible, so in the run up we will probably see a lot more Yes tripe than Better Together tripe.

Are we to expect a poster dramatizing a victim of domestic abuse, with a line telling us that this can be stopped with a Yes vote?

We have already heared Scotland described as a victim of domestic abuse, too scared to leave.

Ben – wonder if you can tell whats going on there?

https://www.facebook.com/votenoborders?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/votenotoborders.info/timeline

If you think Yes contributors responses have been balanced and reasoned you are deluding yourself

Is it your suggestion that two wrongs make a right — TBH it is incredibly daft to attempt to defend your own behaviour by just criticising some others groups behaviour – not least when you have just done exactly what you accuse them of

If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.

Why not be an example rather than follow THMS approach of doing what you object to then complaining about it?

no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.

Ah right so objecting to you means one has to automatically be unreasonable ….nice tactic 😕
IMHO we could debate whether it goes as afar as insulting [ IMHO both campaigns extremists do this but neither campaign quite does it] as it is just designed to spread fear 😉

There are insults on this page for example

We plan to maintain shared services in areas where it makes sense to do so, and where it is in the interests of both Scotland and the rest of the UK, such as:

NHS Blood and Transplant
the Royal Mint
the Research Councils
Air and Maritime Accidents Investigation
some expert and technical advisory groups, for example the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management
the Green Investment Bank
the Hydrographic Office

Where functions continue on a shared services basis, there will need to be adjustments to the governance of these bodies to ensure there is appropriate accountability to the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament. These can build on arrangements already in place for cross-border bodies dealing with devolved matters.

Get real nats you are going to be a separate nation that the UK will be competing with. As if the UK is going to make “adjustments to the governance of these bodies to ensure there is appropriate accountability to the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament”. The only thing the UK will be doing is waving goodbye.

Clearly they will cooperate with a neighbour over mutually convenient matters though we could debate what these are.

You should have a look at Ireland to see how much the UK cooperates with a foreign gov on an Island from energy distribution to the RNLI there are many shared island bodies and some political ones

Scotland cooperates with NI and ireland over renewables and they all cooperate with Wales [ interreg] but I will see if you can be arsed googling for that. I suspect facts dont matter much to you.

Your posts are so full of contempt I am struggling to work out why you care [ please do not mistake that for me actually asking you a question/wanting to read some more of your contempt filled views]

teamhotair- Member
YS boys – you guys are two months too late, it’s the 1st of JUNE today. Or am I missing a new national celebration of comedy

I forgot,in your fevered imagination,the no campaign is “pretty tame.” Feel free to call me a liar for reminding you that you stated that. Still how dare we vote on our future in a way you don’t like when you might plan on moving up here?

Ben – wonder if you can tell whats going on there?

That’s the Vote No Borders Facebook page – what am I supposed to be looking at?

Though this caught my eye:

We asked you what you would miss most if Scotland were to separate. Kevin H told us what he thought.

“I will miss walking the St Cuthberts Way, hearing similar accents, learning about cultures and historical traditions and realising you live in Great Britain a great nation made up of four similar nations and a range of islands.”

Someone else who seems to think that after independence, Scotland will drift off into the North Atlantic, we’ll all start speaking Gaelic, and we’ll never be able to visit England again. Sounds like an elderly friend of my mother who is voting No because she’s worried she won’t be able to go to Scarborough any more.

Someone who does not know that great britain is three nations

If you want to worry about losing your heritage at least learn what it is …numpty.

Junkyard I did google cooperation between ROI and the UK and there is the RNLI, a couple of governmental councils and some cooperation on energy as there is with other European countries though. My problem is the SNP making a number of assumptions about what the UK is going to do after Scottish independence. There is no agreement in place for this wish list of shared institutions but I suppose it helps to stop Scots from worrying about the disruption and costs involved with independence. If Scots don’t mind being misled by the SNP then good for them.
As for contempt, how about the contempt that is shown for Westminster by the nats on here? Is that Westminster the building, the MPs that work there or the whole UK political system? The UK has the 6th largest economy in the world, they must be doing something right.

My problem is the SNP making a number of assumptions about what the UK is going to do after Scottish independence.

And then you make assumptions about what rUK will do afterwards with “wave”

As for contempt, how about the contempt that is shown for Westminster by the nats on here?

Every post you moan about something and then do it yourself:roll:
Pointing out other people do it is not defending your behaviour its is either right or wrong not right when you do it and wrong when they do it. A point lost on you and THM for some reason.

The UK has the 6th largest economy in the world, they must be doing something right.

China is second so they must to …perhaps we should have a one party state then ? Linking the fairness of the political system wiht the economic susccess of the country is not that wise IMHO

That’s the Vote No Borders Facebook page – what am I supposed to be looking at?

Look again

Vote no borders – official site:

https://www.facebook.com/votenoborders?fref=ts

vote no to borders – anti no borders site set up by cybernats

https://www.facebook.com/votenotoborders.info/timeline

The comment you posted was from the fake site 😆

And then you make assumptions about what rUK will do afterwards with “wave”

I am big enough to admit I am wrong to make assumptions. Thanks for pointing out that you agree the SNP is also wrong to make assumptions as well, such as sharing institutions and a currency.

Every post you moan about something and then do it yourself:roll:

Feeling aggrieved is not showing contempt so we will have to disagree on this one. 😉

China is second so they must to …perhaps we should have a one party state then ? Linking the fairness of the political system wiht the economic susccess of the country is not that wise IMHO

You are right again, I should not have linked the greatness of the UK to just the strength of our economy when there are so many other things to choose from. Isn’t this one of those strawman (your new favourite word) arguments anyway? The fact is that the UK has a very strong economy and Scotland currently benefits from it. It will be a gamble letting wee eck loose with the Scottish economy and that is not an assumption.

I forgot,in your fevered imagination,the no campaign is “pretty tame.”

Sorry which bit did you forget? That the No campaign is lacklustre or tame or the bit about my imagination? Do you need reminding?

Feel free to call me a liar for reminding you that you stated that.

Why would I do that? I think calling forumites liars is ill-becoming on a forum? Did you forget that too?

Still how dare we vote on our future in a way you don’t like when you might plan on moving up here?

Why ever not? I like democracy and freedom of speech. Look at the fun we have with the yS attempts to explain basic economics. It’s great, we keep a book of famous quotes! People should have complete freedom to make fools of themselves……

I hope that you managed nice rides, the weather is lovely!

That great British tennis player did a good job this morning too. Nice tense stuff, but hope he is not too tired for tomorrow. Another reason to vote NO…..wouldn’t it be a shame if you didn’t have someone from the Home Countries to cheer in the World Cup? 😉

Look again

Oh yes, that’s pretty funny 😉

The comment you posted was from the fake site

Wrong, it’s from the real one 😀

Thanks for pointing out that you agree the SNP is also wrong to make assumptions as well, such as sharing institutions and a currency

I do agree both sides lie and make ridiculous assumptions/claims/lies about what may or may not happen afterwards.
Nice attempt to side step the point that if you wish to complain about something then you should not do it yourself. Most people would not need this pointing out to them.

Isn’t this one of those strawman

I only repeated what you said using China as the example, if it is one it is your straw man 🙄 Personally I would say your point was a non sequitur and a reductio ad absurdum [ at a stretch] from me. That is China does great economically but this does not mean [ nor does it naturally follow] its political institutions are great [ nor does it for westminster]. I have gone into enough depth for you to understand what the words mean.

I think calling forumites liars is ill-becoming on a forum?

You seem happy to call me a troll despite the fact no one else agrees with you. Thankfully that is just something that is just not true* and not an actual lie.
Its also important to remember we can call anyone a liar as long as they do not post here.

Murray is only British because he is not English, everyone knows this.

* Again i think you must have reported me by now[and had it turned down] so what would you describe that claim as if not untrue? What do you suggest we call someone who repeats a claim they know to be untrue? I dont want to be accused of “ill becoming behaviour” as well as trolling so I am happy to go with your suggestion here.

Ben

Read it and weep

It appears this post is a spoof from a spoof site, many have been fooled on FB and twitter, Yes H & L apologies to all who have been fooled with us.

Bella Caledonia confirms

Astroturf Democracy

I do agree both sides lie and make ridiculous assumptions/claims/lies about what may or may not happen afterwards.
Nice attempt to side step the point that if you wish to complain about something then you should not do it yourself. Most people would not need this pointing out to them.

.
There is a big difference between someone on a forum making an assumption and the potential government of iScotland doing the same and potentially misleading voters.

I only repeated what you said using China as the example

No you took my comment and spun it in a negative manner away from the original meaning without answering or countering my assertion, pretty much the definition of a strawman. The US, Japan, France and Germany all have stronger economies than the UK and you could have used them as an example if you wished but China was the only negative choice available to you. The point I made was that Westminster or to be more precise the various governments that have worked there have guided the UK into having the 6th highest GDP economy in the world, I think that is pretty good going for a country of around 60 million people. Do you not agree that vilifying Westminster is juvenile and petty or is everything that happens in Westminster really deserving of contempt? Things that Westminster can be proud of include the welfare state, NHS and one of the highest foreign aid budgets in the world.

God is this still running…….at the end of the day ‘if’ Scotland vote yes at the referendum then they can still chose to use the pound as a national currency however, Westmininster has stated if they do they will have no say in fiscal policy…….

…….does it really need 151 pages to say this?

Surely we’re all in agreement that George Osborne is a horses arse who spouts the biggest load of horseshit ever.

Clearly yes….on and monetary policy as well don’t forget. Worth repeating as it’s clearly not sunk in yet!

Wankan, it must be bloody worrying if your guys can’t out point a horse’s arse in a factual argument. How can he understand basics better than the higher (?) quality MSPs? Dear, oh dear, oh dear…..

Wan it is not just GO though it is the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all saying no to currency union as well as the majority of people in the UK according to polls. A currency union does not make sense to the UK I am afraid. I am sure there would be no problem setting up a Scots pound.

Don’t forget central banks as well….

Odd, that the one currency option that maximises independence of policy (as proposed in the BoD) has yet to be aired. We have the Euro, then £, then even a shadow £ peg but yet we still have to have the S£. Now, I wonder why that is………..?

African or Indian stools?

Don’t you need your own currency and central bank to join the Euro?

That was page 23 I think…. 😀

Wan it is not just GO though it is the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all saying no to currency union as well as the majority of people in the UK according to polls. A currency union does not make sense to the UK I am afraid. I am sure there would be no problem setting up a Scots pound.

Have you ever negotiated with a Scottish person? I have very little doubt that the SNP does not want a currency union. They are probably playing a political game to try and show that the Westminster government are a bunch of nasties who want to screw Scotland over. From where I’m sitting it seems to be working.

The SNP are more likely to say there will be a currency union because it is such a big issue to Scots.

In truth the SNP does not care whether it gets a currency union or not. All it seeks is a cross against Yes, but they know the people of Scotland would like to keep the UK pound as it stands. Put forward the case everything will change, but nothing will change and all will be well.

Ben

Read it and weep

Ah, I get the confusion – I thought you were talking about the second quote I posted, about not being able to walk St Cuthberts Way any more.

Shows how hard it is to tell real from spoof posts from them…

I have very little doubt that the SNP does not want a currency union.

So should we treat all the main policy recommendation (especially those not only in the best interests of iS but also in the interests of the rUK apparently) in the same light. Perhaps we have indeed found some common ground after over 5k of posts!

ATG, it’s the power they crave above all else hence the flip flopping in policies depending on the wind. Treat facts and the people of the Uk with equal disdain. Your right, wan, the tactic has had some success but fortunately not yet with the majority of your canny countrymen.

The thing that people really need to remember is that the question being asked later this year is not “Should the Scotland be an independent country governed by the SNP?”, but “Should Scotland be an independent country?” Massive difference in those two questions, but people are tending to base their views on the SNP running an indy Scotland. The referendum question has bugger all to do with the SNP.

So should we treat all the main policy recommendation (especially those not only in the best interests of iS but also in the interests of the rUK apparently) in the same light. Perhaps we have indeed found some common ground after over 5k of posts!

ATG, it’s the power they crave above all else hence the flip flopping in policies depending on the wind. Treat facts and the people of the Uk with equal disdain. Your right, wan, the tactic has had some success but fortunately not yet with the majority of your canny countrymen.

As above, it’s not about the SNP. I for one suspect that the SNP would be out on their ear post independence and we’d revert back to coalition governments.

There is a big difference between someone on a forum making an assumption and the potential government of iScotland doing the same and potentially misleading voters

I said both sides and you talk of one – why? There was me thinking you were biased eh. Both side means both sides ie yes /the scottish govt and no and the UK govt. Would you like to claim the UK govt has not done the same in the week when even the source criticised them for fiddling his figures? TO mention only one when i said both is to show your bias

No you took my comment and spun it in a negative manner away from the original meaning without answering or countering my assertion,

No i did not i simply replaced Uk with china and 6 th with 2nd

The UK has the 6th largest economy in the world, they must be doing something right.

China is second so they must to

It is not in any way shape or form a straw man [ I told you what it was] and your description of a straw man is poor

I will make it simple for you here

A straw man, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of the original topic of argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical “attacking a straw man” implies an adversarial, polemic, or combative debate, and creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent’s proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., “stand up a straw man”) and then to refute or defeat that false argument (“knock down a straw man”) instead of the original proposition

The first of these would be impossible for me to do given I quoted you
The second was not done at all either

We will continue to disagree but at least learn what a straw man is if you wish to claim it was deployed.

The SNP are more likely to say there will be a currency union because it is such a big issue to Scots.

yes they are liars- they are politicians.

GO though it is the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all saying no to currency union

Well who would not trust them when they say something eh 😯

Did you hear them this week [ ok lab were not involved in this] using figures that the source said they had abused by a factor of x 10 for an example of just how noble and honest they are
Leaks suggesting currency share is still on the table etc

It is almost as if they are lying politicians everywhere in all parties in all countries.
you need some serious blinkers to think one side is a paragon of truth telling virtue and the other lot liars

Junkyard you don’t like to accept you are wrong do you. I accuse you of using a strawman and then I get a flood of them from you. 🙄

Did you hear them this week [ ok lab were not involved in this] using figures that the source said they had abused by a factor of x 10 for an example of just how noble and honest they are
Leaks suggesting currency share is still on the table etc

Oh so we should never believe any politicians ever because they have lied in the past. The leak from one person, supposedly Vince Cable, hardly negates what the others have said unless you are massively biased. Why is the currency union so important to you?

athgray. If you think Yes contributors responses have been balanced and reasoned you are deluding yourself

Junkyard. Is it your suggestion that two wrongs make a right — TBH it is incredibly daft to attempt to defend your own behaviour by just criticising some others groups behaviour – not least when you have just done exactly what you accuse them of

JY, it was put forward by a Yes supporter that No views expressed were not balanced or reasoned, so for balance and reason, I expressed my opinion that Yes supporters views were not balanced or reasoned. Is there anything wrong with this? In all honesty I am not balanced on this subjest, but look at what I write. You may not agree with me, however plenty of reason goes into my posts on this subject. I reckon like you, both official campaigns leave a lot to be desired, however if people use Yes Scotland information in support of an argument, it is easy to knock it down.

Ben, few think we will not be able to go to Scarborough after a Yes vote, but what is sad is that it seems so many do not care to hear about scarborough. (I am a bit fond of Scarborough. Had good holidays there in my youth). I do not intend to come across as curt ben, however your posts come across as the most frustrating of all. You are clearly well versed politically, more so than myself, with plenty to add, and perhaps more links to proper information beind behind the Daily Fail style campaigns would be more useful than links to crass posters and adverts

Junkyard you don’t like to accept you are wrong do you.

How would you know you have yet to prove I am wrong.

I accuse you of using a strawman and then I get a flood of them from you.

Yes that is exactly what has just happened here. it is not that your minor point was proved to be false, that you dont recognize a straw man when argument either – Man I told you what kind of argument it was 🙄
I only hope you can find it in your heart to be as compassionate as you are clearly wise.
We will continue to disagree but at least learn what a straw man is

The leak from one person, supposedly Vince Cable, hardly negates what the others have said unless you are massively biased.

Two points
1. I said both earlier and you discussed one and you want to accuse me of bias
2. Its has got nothing to do with Vince as it was the treasury report.

I expressed my opinion that Yes supporters views were not balanced or reasoned. Is there anything wrong with this?

Only if you accept that it is true for some on both sides. If you mean them all then yes it is just bias.

I reckon like you, both official campaigns leave a lot to be desired, however if people use Yes Scotland information in support of an argument, it is easy to knock it down.

So it is ok to use treasury figures but we should ignore only the yes campaign?

Clearly there are examples on both sides where the figures are nothing but spin and wishful thinking. Which you focus on is decided by your own views not really the facts presented.
Both sets of “official” figures are not things I would trust tbh
There are truths in some of what they both say and lies in some of what they both say as they are presented to serve a political agenda and manipulate to do such. They are, after all , politicians on all sides.

but what is sad is that it seems so many do not care to hear about scarborough

I do agree – in fact one of the few good cases to vote No that I’ve heard is that working-class people in Glasgow have more in common with working-class people in Manchester than they do with politicians in Edinburgh. I think it’s a pity that the No case has been taken over by the Tories (and the Tory-wannabes who call themselves Labour), the socialist case for the Union is the only really positive case I’ve heard.

However, my answer to that is to ask why it stops at the borders of the UK. Why not include the working-class people of Madrid, Cologne or Marseilles? My other answer is that the system is broken, it’s not fixable from within.

one of the few good cases to vote No that I’ve heard is that working-class people in Glasgow have more in common with working-class people in Manchester than they do with politicians in Edinburgh.

We plan to do a Crimea once you have independence
Insert AS/Putin joke here

The fact is that the UK has a very strong economy and Scotland currently benefits from is part of it.

It will be a gamble letting wee eck loose with the Scottish economy and that is not an assumption.

Elections are always a gamble. Elections to a new assembly in a new state are even less predictable. Why assume that Salmond and the SNP would win them?

Don’t you need your own currency and central bank to join the Euro?

I don’t know, do you? Do you need to join the ECB to use the Euro?

Brown says Yes to currency union

The man who presided over the financial crash supports sharing the pound, so that settles the argument, it’s a dumb idea that going to leave us all poorer. 🙂

Vote YES for the X£