Osborne. How useless is he, then?

teamhurtmore – Member
This thread merely confirms pre-determined prejudices and leads to a tired and pointless debate

… thought it might…

double post

I can’t really see how this can be done, but assuming that it can be, and the competition is more open then the people who get to the top will still be the most ambitious and the most willing to put their needs above others.
Sure they’ve got there by merit of their own wit, but that won’t make them any more pleasant leaders

That may be so, but the current situation, perceived or otherwise is that only the wealthy are getting to these positions of power and are perverting the system towards their own aims.

And its not all about leaders, political, or business. I don’t understand why anyone other than those who are wealthy and/or privileged wouldn’t want to find out.

When the playing field has been levelled and everyone is given the same access to nutrition, education etc, those at the top will be berated because they were born with better genes or more intelligent etc. Fairness is arbitrary.

To think that all those at the top had better genes or were more intelligent, then you certainly aren’t in the category you perceive them to be.

Those at the top will be berated for holding the rest back.

those at the top will be berated because they were born with better genes

How will you determine that? Craniometry?

To think that all those at the top had better genes or were more intelligent, then you certainly aren’t in the category you perceive them to be.

Duh I think you misunderstood my statement. Or are you just making an ad hominem attack because you haven’t actually got anything concrete to counter with?

How will you determine that? Craniometry?

It is implied in the anti privilege argument, (which is that leaders should be there on merit only not just social or background advantage). So when we have a level playing field we can assume that those at the top are there on merit only, yes?

So when people get to the top on merit only then those at the bottom will complain that those at the top were born “more intelligent” and “it isn’t fair, why can’t I be in charge just because I was born with a learning difficulty”. etc etc.

He is known as the submarine by civil servants as he rarely surfaces. He has no growth policies, which is why privatising the NHS is so important – if you can’t grow existing economic activity in the private sector, create something new they can do. And the latter is much easier when there has been years of investment and training by the public sector. It the same story with academies – it isn’t about academic freedom, it is about legal, IT, catering and accountancy firms getting more business.

He has no growth policies,

thats not entirely true i think weve sold a fair bit of democracy repression equipment to bahrain

Personally I love the fact there’s a historian running the finances of this country.

You’d think with that background he could look back and say “let’s see what’s worked and what’s failed in the past…”

Duh I think you misunderstood my statement. Or are you just making an ad hominem attack because you haven’t actually got anything concrete to counter with?

There’s nothing to counter. It was a dumb statement. Simple as.

So when people get to the top on merit only then those at the bottom will complain that those at the top were born “more intelligent” and “it isn’t fair, why can’t I be in charge just because I was born with a learning difficulty”. etc etc.

Duh, happy with the current scenario?

There’s nothing to counter. It was a dumb statement. Simple as.

Let me see. You think I was saying that current leaders arrived where they are on merit yes?

Personally I love the fact there’s a historian running the finances of this country.

Well NuLab wanted an ex-postie to do the job 🙂

It the same story with academies – it isn’t about academic freedom, it is about legal, IT, catering and accountancy firms getting more business.

That scares me, primarily because it’s slipping under the radar which is tracking the great ship NHS.

Well NuLab wanted an ex-postie to do the job

😆

Well at least chances are he would’ve got there by being capable, not the PM’s public school mate. 😉

being capable

That could have been a problem.

Pimpmaster Jazz – Member
Personally I love the fact there’s a historian running the finances of this country.

Getting a 2:1 in Modern History doesn’t make him a historian.

Pimpmaster Jazz – Member
Personally I love the fact there‘sWAS a historian running the finances of this country.

You’d think with that background he could have looked back and say “let’s see what’s worked and what’s failed in the past…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown

😉

I have a vague dislike for the whole concept of meritocracy in the first place that I can’t quite put my finger on.
But basically it’s something along the lines of judging the worth of a human on their IQ, and by extension defining people which don’t rank on this education scale as being of less merit is about as helpful as judging someone’s merit on the size of their breasts.

Getting a 2:1 in Modern History doesn’t make him a historian.

OK, how about a history graduate? 😉

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown

I didn’t need to see that smile again.

*shudders*

Sorry, Pimpy, truly I am! 🙂 I’ll have my therapist give you a call, OK?

judging the worth of a human on their IQ

Whether or not IQ tests are an accurate measure of intelligence is open to debate. It is difficult to define exactly what constitutes intelligence; it may be the case that IQ scores represent a very specific type of intelligence.

iq measures how accustomed to the western world

Under the last government we had 5 Defence Secretaries in 4yrs, the last being the thoroughly decent but hardly qualified Bob Ainsworth, former sheet metal worker. Nobody liked to point that out because its a bit snobbish but there you are.

Seeing as the thread has moved onto social mobility and the lack thereof, maybe those yelling how much they dont like the country being run by toffs could explain to us why we shouldnt bring back grammar schools? Can we have one in Haringey please?

IanMunro – Member
I have a vague dislike for the whole concept of meritocracy in the first place that I can’t quite put my finger on.
But basically it’s something along the lines of judging the worth of a human on their IQ

No that isnt a meritocracy. Hard work, imagination, drive, maybe a bit of toughness will do wonders. As will having a stable family life.

As I said I can’t quite but my finger on it, but something doesn’t quite sit right with the assumption that one arbitrary set of metrics defines or diminishes a persons worth in society.

Seeing as the thread has moved onto social mobility and the lack thereof, maybe those yelling how much they dont like the country being run by toffs could explain to us why we shouldnt bring back grammar schools? Can we have one in Haringey please?

Because they reduce opportunity and social mobility?

I simply want the best person for the job not have appointees by cronyism

I’m glad I come to STW. I never knew until today that the reason I got on a bit was down to all those discreet connections my father cultivated at the bar of the Perth City British Legion.

dont like the country being run by toffs

“Toffs” aren’t the problem – it’s the cronyism that allows health reform to be written by management consultants and railways to be run by accountants.

“Toffs” aren’t the problem – it’s the cronyism that allows health reform to be written by management consultants and railways to be run by accountants.

Thats a different argument, and one that might have something to it. But if you read through the thread, the problem for the haters (who’re gonna hate) is that they dont like posh people, full stop.

No mcboo – the what I and others dislike is cronyism meaning that we get people like Osbourne in positions of power and influence based on who they know not what they know. He is not there on merit – he is there because he is Camerons crony

You could actually read what people are posting.

they dont like posh people, full stop

I don’t really think of the incumbent elite as “posh” – monied, certainly – but not posh.

The genuinely “posh” are usually living in a state of picturesque disrepair, baffled by the modern world.

You can’t buy it. 8)

The genuinely “posh” are usually living in a state of picturesque disrepair, baffled by the modern world.

This is true

I’m glad I come to STW. I never knew until today that the reason I got on a bit was down to all those discreet connections my father cultivated at the bar of the Perth City British Legion.

Just think how different your life could have been if at eleven years old you had failed an exam, and therefore been consigned to a second class education.

TJ since when did any chancellor get there on merit.
They get there as an MP, they are voted for and then the bunch in power work out who gets what job, there is no qualifying degree for any government job.
look at what the last bunch of **** did to defense the economy etc etc, and then ask yourself why you bother to vote as voting gets one group after the next, and not one is qualified for shit in this life.

Didn’t the last government pump money into defense, health and education?

The one thing that amuses me in this whole debate is none of you get it,
it’s about politics, anyone can get in to politics and do what they like, look at the BNP, if you feel strongly enough get involved join the party you feel most aligned to and get out there.
I just think they are all crap and we get what we deserve as a lazy country that just wants another tax break or little treat to make our lives a little easier for a little while.

I don’t really think of the incumbent elite as “posh” – monied, certainly – but not posh.

The genuinely “posh” are usually living in a state of picturesque disrepair, baffled by the modern world.

You can’t buy it.

😀

Sorry, Pimpy, truly I am! I’ll have my therapist give you a call, OK?

It concerns me that that you have a therapist. 😉

Just think how different your life could have been if at eleven years old you had failed an exam, and therefore been consigned to a second class education.

I did get a second class education. I went to a crap British comprehensive.

mcboo +1