Opinions please

4 of us out for a ride today – 1 of the group has an issue with his bottom bracket half way round. We find a bike shop and buy the parts to sort it out. The guy in the shop knows we’ve got about 20 miles to go, and all we have with us is trail tools. We ask if we could very quickly use a tool of his to fit the bits we’ve just bought from him (he’s already told us he’s not in a position to fit it for us) – to which he refuses out right. I think he’s a bit of a cock – but am I being unreasonable?

Yes

Problem of his own creation, really… Not reasonable to expect other people to bail him out.

Shops lending tools- shop tools are expensive, and if you lend stuff out there’s a reasonable chance it goes missing or gets damaged, so there’s good reasons not to lend to strangers. So I can’t say he’s a cock, but I think he’s also possibly not the nicest human being- he’s not been unreasonable but he could have done more.

name and shame

Tough one. I’ve had people not return tools, so the next day I can’t repair paying customers bikes. I’m out of business, have to shut the shop, and go and spend my own time and money replacing my own tools.

What tool were you after?

I take it you were going to do it there and then in front of the shop? Or at least in the very near vicinity?
Yeah, I’d say they’re not coming across well- but what do I know?- I keep getting east and west mixed up.

I don’t lend the tools I use to earn my living to anyone.

And if I’m asked I explain it exactly like that.

I would expect anyone else who uses tools to earn money to do the same.

50/50 he could have been busy using the tools hence not able to fix your mates bike. Also as above stuff goes missing, gets covered in crap/damaged etc.

Neal- what if they were going to do the job as you watched, then hand them straight back to you?
You didn’t sell a guy on a ride with his mates a bb recently did you?
I can understand your point though..

I’ve lost track of the number of tools I’ve lent out and not got back – up to and including a £150 BB facing tool.

Neal- what if they were going to do the job as you watched, then hand them straight back to you?

Probably not, some of my stuff is pretty easy to damage and cost a fortune.
Anyone who knows how to use them properly, would have their own.
Plus, I can’t afford to replace them, and without them I can’t earn.

[Quote]You didn’t sell a guy on a ride with his mates a bb recently did you?[/quote]

No I don’t work in the same trade.

[Quote]I can understand your point though..[/quote]

Good 🙂

one local shop had a sign
“The guy who lends out tools is out buying more tools”

If you were going to do it in front of his very eyes in his shop and he wasn’t using them himself then I’d say he’s being unreasonable – given that it’s very hard to damage a BB spanner. If you were going to walk outside then I can understand his reticence…

Yes.
It usually escalates.
Can I borrow a spanner?
Can I borrow a preload tool?
Can I take over a corner of the shop and make a mess?
Can I borrow a hammer?
Its stuck.Have you got a bar?
I’ve dropped the spacers-can I have some more?
Can you face it whilst I’m here?
Can I have some anti seize?
It won’t go in,what have I done wrong?
Why are my cranks stiff?
Can you check I’ve done it right?
I gave you back the spanner?
It wasbroken when you gave it to me.
I never borrowed a hammer?
Closely followed by slating the poor ‘customer service’ to anyone who’ll listen.

If you were going to fit the part in the shop, then I’d say yes. Or you could have bought the tool from his shop – assuming he had one in stock to sell (BB spanner by chance?). Perhaps that’s what he was hoping, an extra £20 for a tool.

If you were going to fit the part in the shop, then I’d say yes. Or you could have bought the tool from his shop – assuming he had one in stock to sell (BB spanner by chance?). Perhaps that’s what he was hoping, an extra £20 for a tool.

Reminds I must get my tools back I lent out for one quick job should be done, 2 years ago now.

Seems silly but as mentioned his tools are his living.

given that it’s very hard to damage a BB spanner

I’ve also lost track of the number of BB tools I’ve broken – and I’m a professional.

You either lend your stuff to anyone who asks, and risk loss or damage, or you do not lend at all. LBS guy can’t be making judgements on everyone’s trustworthiness.

I used to keep a box of ‘customer tools’ for such occasions (in my younger less before I had the humanity drained from my soul).I was emptied in 2 weeks.Used to keep a track pump on a chain for customer use…got nicked,got replaced,got nicked,got replaced,got nicked,gave up.

He’s also on dodgy grounds with his insurance possibly. I doubt very much that his public liability insurers would be too delighted if a customer got injured using shop tools and shop workshop space, got injured and sued.

Also, 5 miles into the ride, bb falls out, rider falls off and dies (or worse still from purely an insurance view is in a wheelchair for life), shop gets the blame for letting an inexperienced mechanic use their stuff etc and family sues.

Its crap I know but that’s the way these things work (I’m an insurance underwriter, I see claims like this – it does happen).

Cheers

Danny B

I think it depends on the way the whole thing panned out,

Scenario 1; you go into the shop, explain the fact that your stranded 20miles from home and need a repair to get you home, he recommends the parts needed for the fix and sells them to you and only then turns around and says you can’t use any workshop tools, then he’s being a bit of a cock.

Scenario 2; you go into the shop, ask for XYZ, which he sells you and then when you explain the situation he refuses to lend you the tools, then it’s more understandable.

In either situation I would want a refund on the parts that I’d just bought which were effectively useless. The next time your mates want some new bikes/shoes/shorts etc. and need to try some on for size before buying cheaper online I can guess where they’re going!

I broke a pedal and bought a new set from Alpine bikes (in Glentress). I asked the chap if I could also borrow a large allen key to get the pedal off, and they offered my the use of the workstand too.

Also I snapped a seatpost (towards the end of a ride) and went in looking for an I-Beam one, they didn’t have any but offered me a lend of a demo post/seat so I wouldn’t spoil my day.

But, it depends on the circumstances and I’d have asked before buying the BB.

In either situation I would want a refund on the parts that I’d just bought which were effectively useless.

A nice credit note for you then as there’s nothing wrong with the parts.

I understand all the arguments about not lending tools but not helping a customer to find a solution to a problem like this is not a good way to build a business. Assuming it’s an external BB it’s a 5-minute job (or a low-risk lend) that will make the difference between winning goodwill or getting roasted on the Internet.

I think a lot depends on the context op. If you buy on line and keep your bike in order it can save you a lot of unpleasant trips to an LBS, and saves an LBS monkey the mental anguish of having to deal with your unreasonable/ robbing intentions.

Agreed Cheezpleez lot to be said for extra customer service.

Does he sell BB tools? If so he’s got a good reason to refuse.

Yes.
It usually escalates.
Can I borrow a spanner?
Can I borrow a preload tool?
Can I take over a corner of the shop and make a mess?
Can I borrow a hammer?
Its stuck.Have you got a bar?
I’ve dropped the spacers-can I have some more?
Can you face it whilst I’m here?
Can I have some anti seize?
It won’t go in,what have I done wrong?
Why are my cranks stiff?
Can you check I’ve done it right?
I gave you back the spanner?
It wasbroken when you gave it to me.
I never borrowed a hammer?
Closely followed by slating the poor ‘customer service’ to anyone who’ll listen.

You are right!

Yes, you are being unreasonable. If it had been me, I would have offered to fit it for you and charged you for the pleasure. Or I might have told you to go forth and multiply.

Never EVER ask a mechanic/engineer of any sort to borrow tools unless you know them very, very well. Know as in the biblical sense.

Would you go into a car garage and say can I borrow your ramp?

He would have had to watch you doing it or risk losing the tool. He didn’t have the time to do that. Personally I would have made you pay a deposit on the tool, credit card and then lent it

A nice credit note for you then as there’s nothing wrong with the parts.

Not in scenario 1, the parts supplied don’t enable you to fix the bike so are not fit for purpose.

Not in scenario 1, the parts supplied don’t enable you to fix the bike so are not fit for purpose.

Why then as that’s the parts needed not having the tools to fix it yourself if nothing to do with part being not fit for purpose. That’s like saying a TV is not fit for purpose as they didn’t supply a HDMI cable or screwdriver to fit the stand on with.

How could

bits go missing

when

We ask if we could very quickly use a tool of his to fit the bits we’ve just bought from him

happened 😕

Would you go into a car garage and say can I borrow your ramp?

I would and have asked my the LBS if I can use their pump after having some work done in said LBS…

Same but different…

I won’t even lend my tools to my mates anymore. Call me a grumpy old git if you like, but I’ve spent a lot of time and money gathering all the specialist tools I need to fix my bike, my mates haven’t bothered, and expect to borrow mine. When I used to lend, they wouldn’t come back, and I’d have to drive for an hour or so to retrieve them next time they were needed.

Instead, I now offer for them to bring their bike (and a couple of beers) over to my place on a Sunday and I’ll help’em fix it. Works bettter for all concerned.

Bloody hell. I hope I never have the misfortune to shop in any of the LBS’ owned by those here. A fellow rider with 20 miles left to cycle, and you wouldn’t let him borrow a BB tool (for use in the shop), having just sold him a BB? Insurance? 😯
I Would have got a refund there and then. A refusal would have resulted in trying to waste the blokes entire day.

If you can sue your gym for falling off a treadmill or you can sue your employer when you get injured having a nail gun fight because they didn’t give you training that said having nail gun fights was dangerous and wrong then you can sue your LBS for letting you use their tools and then getting injured on their premises or as a result of the work.

Those examples are taken from confirmed claims experiences (a document insurers provide to other insurers when looking at a piece of business) that I have seen with my own fair eyes.

The nail gun kid got £50k!

Cheers

Danny B

<goes to find a nail gun>

<remembers I’m self-employed>