Oooo am I going to get a visit from the police?

I think everyone agrees that the merge 1-2-1-2 works well like a zip so long as every sticks to it. The problem occurs when instead it becomes 1-2-1-234-1-23 and then things don’t work as intended and before long there is foreskin stuck in the zip, lots of yelling and aggression whilst the bellend behind the wheel is oblivious to problems they have caused others so long as they have gained that extra cars length.

I guess that this thread is an easy way to separate those drivers who know the highway code and are confident behind the wheel from those that are not.

Depends I know what the highway code says flashing your lights means and I know what everyone driving uses it to mean.
I dont personally think i would be a better driver or more confident if I took it to mean what the HC says it does and just ignored folk flashing me out.

Clearly no one thinks we do as the HC says so you can either join the queue or jump the queue.
FWIW it says

You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed.

when you have seen the sign you know to change lane you have been directed and some folk are waiting till you have no choice and your lane disappears.
I dont think the HC does tell you to drive to the merge point them zip as you claim and it is open to interpretation and is only a recommendation
Here it is again

You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.

if we zipped [ I have been convinced we probably should ] i would join in but we dont so i do what drivers do

when you have seen the sign you know to change lane you have been directed and some folk are waiting till you have no choice and your lane disappears.

Could you give me an example of one of these “you must all plough in to lane 1 immediately and ignore the rest of the road” signs? I don’t believe I’ve ever seen one.

Ever noticed how those driving slower than you are dawdling and those driving faster than you are lunatics?

😉

Could you give me an example of one of these “you must all plough in to lane 1 immediately and ignore the rest of the road” signs? I don’t believe I’ve ever seen one.

One (or more) of these on a motorway? IIRC they’re showing that you ‘MUST NOT proceed beyond this sign in this lane’ (according to THC)

Yeah, fair point and you’re not wrong there, that’s exactly what they mean.

But, that’s a wholly different situation to the one we’re talking about. It’s probably directing relatively high-speed traffic (depending on conditions) so the “zip merge” approach doesn’t apply, and if hypothetically it did then that’d be the merge point with preceding signs advising you to change lanes ahead of the imminent lane closure.

The big red x does mean “lane closed” and you should merge imediately. This causes queues because the chump inside you on seeing the lane closed will suddenly switch from being happy with being slower than people overtaking to agressively defending his position due to the British desire to maintain queue etiquette despite the ludicrousness of it.

Means the lane closes in 800m. That’s it.

There is an interesting discussion here about how signs have been changed to encoruage this behaviour from the left hand version which encoruaged early merging with its “Get in lane” marking to the right hand version which clearly indicates to people that they need to merge in 800m

If only Jamie was here – he could photoshop that last sign to the OP’s rules, with the left arrow becoming fatter and stopping the right hand arrows half way up 😉

I thought my post might cause a few replies as I was being a little devil’s advocate. We are a nation of queuers and I’d love to merge in turn. But how close to the merging point do you get before you change lanes? Easy if the traffic ahead is moving at a reasonable pace. So you pull in with plenty of space to match the traffic speed ahead, then some flash harry barrels down the outside and cuts in at the last minute ‘merging in turn’ according to some people’s interpretation of THC. It goes against the grain, in this country’s at least, sense of fairness and politeness. In situations like the A61 where most of the queuing is done by the same people most days, unwritten rules seem to develop as everyone knows the situation ahead, so all take their positions in the queue depending where they were, say a quarter mile back. Where there’s a risk of blocking junctions in slow moving traffic it would be daft not to use all the available space and I will happily pass queuing cars if that’s what’s happening. A better engineering solution might be a solid white line down the middle a fair way before the merge point and merge now arrows before the pinch point. Then everyone knows where they stand and aren’t second guessing other’s sense of reasonableness.

Markie – You know you can still respect the speed limit without sitting in one lane while the 1, 2 or 3 lanes to your left are empty.

In my experience, it’s more likely that the person driving at the speed limit is overtaking, but not quite quickly enough for the impatient tailgater.

That was definitely the case down the A42 yesterday evening.

Then everyone knows where they stand and aren’t second guessing other’s sense of reasonableness.

Trouble is, they should now, but they don’t. Shifting the second guessing /merge point back won’t do anything to help, it’ll just take up more road.

I’m visiting from out of town. Could you tell me where I could find a copy of these unwritten rules then I know what to do when I get there please?

I’d hate to fail to block off half the road like everyone else, what will people think of my manners?

Shifting the second guessing /merge point back won’t do anything to help, it’ll just take up more road.

Precisely. You’re taking a single point merging and replacing it with another single merging point further back.

The only way your solid line idea would work is if you had the solid white line all the way to the back of the single-lane queue. Ie, turn all the dual-lane roads back into single lane roads country-wide.

But how close to the merging point do you get before you change lanes?

Err, right at the point the lanes merge, it’s not rocket science – see Highway Code.

It goes against the grain, in this country’s at least, sense of fairness and politeness.

Really? Which grain is that? Would you consider following the Highway Code to be against the grain? Where it it polite to double the length of the queue by staying left blocking all the side roads in the process?

In situations like the A61 where most of the queuing is done by the same people most days, unwritten rules seem to develop as everyone knows the situation ahead.

Do they? I’d expect people to follow the Highway Code, not some obscure and unwritten rule dreamed up by people who think they know better? “After you, no after you, no please after you, no I insist after you”, really, are you sure? no, don’t think I could, after you? . . . . meanwhile the whole system shudders to a halt 😯

I think my white line idea has been misunderstood, it finishes before the merge point so it forces two lane queuing. You have to make your lane decision whilst still hopefully travelling at a decent pace. Nobody cuts in halfway down the queue to be leapfrogged by the bumper-hugger behind. The only decision you need to make is which lane to be in, isolating you from having to judge who’s gained an unfair advantage.
Oh, and I don’t think they let out-of-towners into Alfreton anyway 😉

So the solid White line idea is basically for people who don’t know how to do it properly already, because they haven’t educated themselves (or been educated) on the right way to do it.

What makes you think they will understand what a solid white line means they should/shouldn’t do ?

I think my white line idea has been misunderstood, it finishes before the merge point so it forces two lane queuing.

Except, it won’t, it just means that then everyone will try to get into the left hand land before the white line starts, because as demonstrated over seven pages, a lot of people are stubborn.

because they haven’t educated themselves (or been educated) on the right way to do it.

Or because they have been eductated but are still going to do it anyway because they can’t handle the fact that they’ve been doing something wrong (and getting angry at people who’ve been doing it right) for a couple of decades. There’s a few on this very thread who’ve said just that.

Fair point.

Either way, they will continue to do it wrong, either knowingly or otherwise.

If drivers decide to use the left hand lane early than that’s their own tough luck. It would also prevent visits from the police as it would stop drivers self-policing the queue.

That’s the problem though.

It’s always a left hand lane “early adopter” who decides to self police those of us who know how to do it properly.

And then moan about it on a bike forum 😉

My mate had just one of these self-rightous upholders of the the queue twunts a few cars in front of him in an HGV straddling 2 lanes to prevent overtakers. The HGV had obviously pissed off the car directly behind him who eventually got past him by overtaking on the grass. Said driver then pulled in front of HGV and HGV driver started getting out of his cab. 6ft++ driver of car got out of vehicle and ‘helped’ HGV driver out of his cab, accompanied by a smack in the teeth. HGV driver then proceeded to run back along the queue to ask for witnesses, funny enough my mate hadn’t seen a thing.
Use both lanes of the road and merge in turn when the two lanes become 1. Shame we don’t all have to re-take our tests every few years to weed out these idiots that persist in moving over at the slightest whiff of a lane closure and then getting irate if anyone decides to go past them.

Yeah, because smacking someone in the mouth is better than stopping people merge in turn.

Mate of mine once had a similar altercation with a HGV.

Said HGV driver made an attempt on his life by throwing his truck at him, forcing him off the motorway onto the hard shoulder and then keeping going to try to stuff him into the Armco. My mate slammed on, lorry driver did likewise. Both jumped out to have an exchange of views.

My mate’s opening gambit was to smack him in the puss. The lorry driver clapped his hands together, went “excellent!” and rang the police to (successfully) press assault charges.

Careful with your road rage, guys.

Followed this and held my peace so far. For me, the most important points raised have been; you cannot legislate for the behaviour of others, on both sides of the argument. It is inbuilt in the British psyche to mostly continue behaving in the left hand lane manner, regardless of rights or wrongs.Some of us are obviously so bored that we’ll read seven pages of bollocks on and off without even chipping in.

My mate had just one of these self-rightous upholders of the the queue twunts a few cars in front of him in an HGV straddling 2 lanes to prevent overtakers. The HGV had obviously pissed off the car directly behind him who eventually got past him by overtaking on the grass. Said driver then pulled in front of HGV and HGV driver started getting out of his cab. 6ft++ driver of car got out of vehicle and ‘helped’ HGV driver out of his cab, accompanied by a smack in the teeth. HGV driver then proceeded to run back along the queue to ask for witnesses, funny enough my mate hadn’t seen a thing.

You see. It’s all about trying to drive in accordance with the Highway Code.

Oh God no, seven pages about bad driving. FFS.

Good innit? Now, just so I’m clear, where am I supposed to merge?
In other news, I watched one of those funny Juke things merge with itself on the way north this afternoon – they were bimbling along in the middle lane, then all of a sudden aimed for the armco. Not quite sure what to make of it really.

Yeah, because smacking someone in the mouth is better than stopping people merge in turn.

I got told by patriotpro I would get a smack in the mouth for using the empty lane a couple of pages back.

So guess that’s all square in the “bellends being violent” competition.

Err, right at the point the lanes merge, it’s not rocket science – see Highway Code.

Could you highlight the point that states this please ? It keeps getting said and I keep quoting the guidance.

Would you consider following the Highway Code to be against the grain?

Flashing lights means I am here it does not mean no please you go first. Would it be against the grain for me to start flashing my lights and then drive into gaps or not?

for people who don’t know how to do it properly already, because they haven’t educated themselves (or been educated) on the right way to do it.

The quoted highway code is still ambiguous and does not , say to do as you advocate. At best its unclear what it says and it only offers best practice of zippping for and i quote

Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident.

Its clearly optional as well rather than a rule and the rule is advisory. you chose to both do this and insist the HC says to do it.

It does not say drive to the end then merge only at the last available point /merge point in a zip fashion. Its one of many options.

Take an advanced driving course and see what you get told.

Ask a traffic officer and see what you get told.

Or just use the logic that you already agree with?

Alternatively, wait in a massive long line and get angry with people driving past.

The choice is yours.

Well, I suppose I do reserve the right to get cross with people who ignore LANE CLOSING signs two miles down the road and race past (can’t actually remember if this has anything to do with the op).

If I see a LANE CLOSING or ROAD NARROWING sign, I’ll generally shift over to the left lane. S’just polite innit? But I really don’t want to see this go to page eight 🙁

I think we have reached our own traffic jam here and an appeal to authority does not explain where the HC says what you have claimed it says.

Reverses away from pinch point and leaves thread.

Although I know merging in turn is correct, in reality I sometimes choose not to do it to avoid the aggro.
It all depends on my mood.

Shame to have to join the other idiots but sometimes it’s easier for a stress free journey.

I would rather listen to actual experts rather than the “experts” of STW

http://www.roadsafe.com/magazine/2008spring/road.htm

IAM are not the voice of authority though, Junkyards point still stands in that the actual highway code is ambiguous. The key point that seems to be missed is “when appropriate”. Waiting till the lanes merge is stupid if theres a decent gap to merge into at a reasonable distance from this point (not everyone is an arse who drives nose to tail).

Just one thing, for all those going on about being right, I hope you all drive at a safe and appropriate speed when overtaking stationary traffic.

Junkyards point still stands in that the actual highway code is ambiguous.

If for the sake of argument it’s ambiguous (and it’s not, it’s the recommended course of action), why do people feel justified in getting angry about it?

Well, I suppose I do reserve the right to get cross with people who ignore LANE CLOSING signs two miles down the road and race past

I see the problem now. You’ve confused LANE CLOSING with LANE CLOSED.

The key point that seems to be missed is “when appropriate”.

It’s appropriate when vehicles are moving at very low speed, just like it says in the other half of that sentence.

IAM are not the voice of authority though, Junkyards point still stands in that the actual highway code is ambiguous.

If there is any ambiguity, I would go with AIM or Roadsafe’s interpretation before the advice of a Mountainbike forum.

Firmly in the merge at the merge point camp here. What gets me is the people who think that’s pushing in. It isn’t. We’re almost certainly not going to the same place so what difference does it make overall?! York outer ring road is a complete nightmare for this petty nonsense.