Oooo am I going to get a visit from the police?

If there’s roughly equal numbers of people in each lane there is no zooming going on

But in that instance, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

But in that instance, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Surely that’s what the discussion’s about? Should we try to utilise both lanes and merge in turn in order to reduce the length of tailbacks?

1) its not about the till, its about getting out of the shop having paid. Does that help?

2) i’m notverygood, there a couple of good explanations about the impact on the length of a queue (as opposed to the number of vehicles queueing 2 abreast) on the other roads nearby when that queue interrupts junctions and roundabouts. I am not sure what else you need to understand. Perhaps you would feel better if the op explained where the nearest junction was behind him at the time of the incident, and how many cars were or weren’t backed up over it.

Or spend time queuing 2 abreast for several changes of lights only to find that there is 200 yards of right hand carriageway empty just after them because people are moving over to the left sooner than they could.
Try and imagine how many changes of lights sooner you could have got through, and whether you would have got to the bit where it goes back to one lane any sooner (hint: yes you would).

Page 241. I used to put these out on the actual real life road.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203669/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-08-part-01.pdf

Traffic gets busy here, but every morning they’ll be someone who decides that they’re way to important to wait in a queue and who will therefore zoom up the outside, through the lights and then attempt to cut back in having jumped 10 or 20 cars.

That seems to be a weirdly designed layout where one lane turns to two and back for no obvious reason – but even then, if people filled both lanes and merged in turn the capacity of the road would be slightly higher, the queue shorter and no one would be able to “zoom” past anyone.

They have these in Edinburgh

I always merge when the roads merge too. Taught like that in driving test to stop junctions being blocked. Plus it’s in the highway code etc.

Merge in turn at the front

OP = be11end in my book

Use both lanes right up the the merge point. People need to merge at some point, might as well use up the available carriageway space while you’re doing it. Otherwise the merge point will just move further and further backwards.

The OP was in the wrong IMO, it’s a mindset thing.

Wrong, IMO.

it’s only wrong coz no-one else is doing it, if everyone was doing it then it’d be right. As toppers says I don’t think the council just thought “**** it, let’s put another lane in for a laugh”

Yeah they may have thought it out incorrectly and it wouldn’t work any better if people merged at the correct point, but their road planners probably know more about this shizzle than us.

Can I be the first to say…

HARUMPH

(I rather doubt it given some of the contributions)

Drive in the right lane at the same speed the left lane is moving. At the merge point you merge in turn as suggested. You form the queue behind you thus initiating the correct merge in turn behaviour.

Traffic gets busy here, but every morning they’ll be someone who decides that they’re way to important to wait in a queue and who will therefore zoom up the outside, through the lights and then attempt to cut back in having jumped 10 or 20 cars.

It’s not clear from the photo, does the right hand lane become right-turn only? If both lanes go straight on then I’m very confused as to why you think you can only use half of the road. There’s big arrows on the floor telling you to use both lanes and everything.

OP – I have done, would have done and will continue to do the same thing as you in that situation.
If everyone did the same, it’d stop happening maybe.

If everyone did the same, all the traffic would be down the middle straddling two lanes. I can’t even begin to imagine how traffic would merge safely to get to that state, it’d be bloody chaos.

Drive in the right lane at the same speed the left lane is moving. At the merge point you merge in turn as suggested. You form the queue behind you thus initiating the correct merge in turn behaviour.

SMACK ON.

A6 going into manchester, between pendleton roundabout and the crescent, 2 lanes from the east lancs, 1 lane and a buslane from the roundabout and just lately absolute carnage. Morons queuing not merging, arseholes tearing up the wrong lane then trying to cut in, people getting into lane far too early (blocking the bus lane) and traffic backs further and further back, often with loads of road space unused! Madness.

Lane discipline on the whole is pretty shocking and it leads to problems like this. If the road directions say use both lanes then merge I’d be giving that a go. (but not the “speeding passed then standing on the brakes” method)

Best Case

All sailing along at 60-70 on a dual carriageway when merge warning comes up. Drivers in left lane reduce speed a little to allow right hand lane guy to drop into left lane in front (with reduction in stopping distance gap proportionate to speed reduction ) Everyone get through constriction at about 40-50 mph and spreads out again afterwards.

Worst case
Audi charges to front, cuts into left lane (usually without indication) resulting in drivers in left lane having to stomp on brakes creating a ripple effect which goes back miles sincebrake lights do not have a rheostat and the only reponse to a brakelight flare is to start braking yourself until you can asses how hard the car in front is slowing.

Dont be selfish, keep speeds as constant as possible for everyone

OP in the wrong according to the highway code, therefore wrong, and acted like an arrogant… to make things worse.

Woman who encountered him, also in the wrong for shouting and ranting etc….

No winners here.

You wont get a visit from the police, but perhaps you could consider taking some driver training, from ROSPA or similar. ROSPA training is very inexpensive, and very good.

Taught like that in driving test to stop junctions being blocked. Plus it’s in the highway code etc.

Good point. There’s a road like this near me. Big RAB underneath a three lane dual carriageway (basically a motorway) so you’ve got the slip roads and a couple of other junctions.

The busiest of the ‘other junctions’ is 3 lanes heading away from the junction for ~200m until it reaches a right turn, then the right lane disappears (right turn only) and it’s down to 2 lanes for another 2-300m until it drops down to 1 lane with the merge arrows painted on the road.

Pretty much every day I see learners on lessons and tests driving to the front of the queue in lane 2 and merging when someone lets them. They’re clearly being taught to do this, and they’re clearly doing it on their driving tests so there’s a fair chance it’s the correct thing to do.

I also occasionally see someone who’s sat in lane 1 since the roundabout move out to straddle lanes 1 and 2 to stop people from passing.

And every single day, the loooong queue in lane 1 backs up to the point that it’s blocking the exit sliproad from the DC and people driving into/from at least one other exit.

If every other car in lane 1 moved out to lane 2 then there would still be a queue, but it wouldn’t be blocking the RAB.

I think traffic planning people call it stacking, the intention is to get more vehicles through and away from junctions and then squish them back down to one lane, so spreading the pressure points out a bit. It’s like moving boxes up to the tenth floor using a lift. You could press the call button, put one box in the lift, press the ’10’ button, take the box out, go back down, put one box in the lift etc…
Or you could put 2 or 3 or 4 boxes in the lift, take them all up in one go (so get more cars through the junction) and then unload them at the top.

I’m assuming that everyone here that uses a car has a licence and has been taught how to drive?

I’d just be interested to know at what part of your driving education you were *taught to deliberately block the road?

Clue: you weren’t.

If someone is passing you as you queue, then the person in the wrong is you.
You should have used the other lane.

*Smartarse emergency services drivers need not reply! 😛

Moved across to Germany a couple of years and things are different as I posted elsewhere… especially the Zip / Merge thing

Generally* UK driving
Agressive, Competitive, Selfish

German* driving
Steady, patient, polite,
(I will concede autobahn rules are a little different but they work. The key is not to let yourself be intimidated in the slightest and have world class observation skills, its expected)

Also what was interesting going back to the UK for a couple of weeks for the Puffer… I found myself slipping back into the game of punish the other motorist exactly like some of the comments above when merging… As someone said, its a conditioning thing…. I blame the parents.

A Zip Merge sign would be a start….

*I havnt spoken to all drivers in both countries but I’m sure there are good and bad in both. No single country has the monopoly on idiots.

after a similar incident. The copper argued that I should have moved to the front of the empty right hand lane. I argued that there is often space up the side of queues to the tills in shops but I wouldn’t consider using that either. After a while he went away.

Probably because he realised some people can never accept that they did something wrong.

And that he was wasting his time trying to educate you.

To all those queuing in Left hand lanes…

A sincere thankyou! We right hand lane “morons” get where we are going allot quicker, thanks to your impeccable manners! Please carry on 😀

You wont get a visit from the police, but perhaps you could consider taking some driver training, from ROSPA or similar. ROSPA training is very inexpensive, and very good.

Christ man, suggesting training to advance one’s ability!
You must be out of your mind! 😯

Oh, unless we’re talking about MTBing, then for some reason it’s completely sensible and the most worthwhile “upgrade”.

ROSPA will get your driving to a higher standard than the IAM, in my opinion, *in case anyone is interested.

* 😆

🙄

🙁

apologies if already mentioned but the one that gets on my tits is when there are 2 lanes approaching a roundabout like the one by my work. The left lane takes you to the area with all the businesses and as such there is usually a substantial que, whilst the right is straight on and to the right and usually empty.

Nothing pisses me off more than seeing the same folk every morning take the right lane, then going right round the roundabout and thus further holding up those trying to turn left.

Theres one particular guy at my work who does it, hes the type of little runty man who wouldn’t say boo to a goose in real life, but surround him with his crappy crysler saloon and he suddenly thinks its ok to inconvenience all the other road users.

His smug grin behind the wheel shows that he clearly thinks hes outwittted the traffic system, and as such has no reason to que. Eh no…its just that noone else is such an inconsederate little weasel…

All these traffic management signs should say merge in turn. For some reason you don’t see many of them but the ones you do generally have less issues with backed up traffic.

She’ll is very unlikely to report it and even if she did I suspect the Police would just file it in the bin.

Yep OP is a jeb end, for some reason thought he owned the road and doesn’t understand merge in turn! People like that cause more problems than they solve

2) i’m notverygood, there a couple of good explanations about the impact on the length of a queue (as opposed to the number of vehicles queueing 2 abreast) on the other roads nearby when that queue interrupts junctions and roundabouts. I am not sure what else you need to understand. Perhaps you would feel better if the op explained where the nearest junction was behind him at the time of the incident, and how many cars were or weren’t backed up over it.

Or spend time queuing 2 abreast for several changes of lights only to find that there is 200 yards of right hand carriageway empty just after them because people are moving over to the left sooner than they could.
Try and imagine how many changes of lights sooner you could have got through, and whether you would have got to the bit where it goes back to one lane any sooner (hint: yes you would).
Yup, I accept that if the queue obstructs other junctions then you want to make the overall length to be shorter. However, I would suggest that in the majority of cases this doesn’t happen. In some maybe, but that isn’t the reason why people charge up to the front of the R/H lane. In you second example, yet again this is a fallacious analogy., because you are talking about a situation where the ‘blockage’ is two lanes wide. Your example would have to feature two lanes leading into a single lane traffic light. The fact is that these queues form because two lanes have greater capacity than one. Once the volume of traffic exceeds what one lane can take you have a queue. The correct place to join the queue is at the back. Joining midway will not make the traffic flow through the constriction any more quickly.

The correct place to join the queue is at the back. Joining midway will not make the traffic flow through the constriction any more quickly.

But in the scenario where people merge in turn, everyone joins at the back of the queue. The zooming up the outside is a consequence of abandoning the right hand lane, not of using it.

Yeah, you still shouldnt block 2 lanes though 😉

c’mon wheres the junction?

but that isn’t the reason why people charge up to the front of the R/H lane.

Using quite emotive language. You could ask ‘why do people continue to drive in an empty lane when they could move into a full lane and stop?’

Joining midway will not make the traffic flow through

I agree with that. The idiots that think ‘aaagh there’s a queue I must join it right now’ make matters worse. Just merge in turn nice and smoothly.

The correct place to join the queue is at the back.

It is. But the point you keep missing is that the queue is two lanes wide, by design. These people doing all this “zooming” are still joining the back of the queue, just the shorter half of it.

If people weren’t so bloody dim and started thinking rather than just blindly doing what everyone else does, we wouldn’t be having this discussion because you’d have two lanes of traffic of a similar length and there’d be no way of “jumping” because the end of both tails would be in around the same place.

You see this herd mentality on foot even, how many times do you see a crowd of people entering / leaving a building all squeezing through one door because it happens to be open, when there’s another perfectly serviceable door right next to it? It’s lunacy.

lemonysam – Member

But in the scenario where people merge in turn, everyone joins at the back of the queue. The zooming up the outside is a consequence of abandoning the right hand lane, not of using it

Correct answer, and politely put. 😀

I would have answered this:

The correct place to join the queue is at the back.

with this:

which is far less polite, but perhaps on a level more suited.

😆

Righty-ho. Accepting that if everyone kept to two lanes there wouldn’t be an issue. But, if in the real world, in a situation where there is a 400 yard queue in the Left hand lane, no traffic the the right hand lane and the nearest junction is 5 miles back, are you suggesting that the reason why someone goes in the R/H lane is to set a good example, or to make maximum use of the road space? Nope, they are trying to jump the queue. Especially when you see the type of people in the type of cars driven in a particular way who do this.

You know, only yesterday a mate was telling me he’d taught his step-daughter how to belm. Maybe that needs to go in the “lost skills” thread.

are you suggesting that the reason why someone goes in the R/H lane is to set a good example, or to make maximum use of the road space? Nope, they are trying to jump the queue.

They’re not jumping the queue. The queue is two lanes wide. They are still in the queue.

Jesus, I don’t know how much simpler I can make this. Do I need to type more slowly?

These people doing all this “zooming” are still joining the back of the queue, just the shorter half of it.

In reality there is one queue and a way to push into this queue further on.
Have you got a non car based example of this ?

FWIW this thread has convinced me that we should all do as you suggest and zip at the “pinch point” . Whilst we do not do this and you ignore what is really happening then what you do is jump the queue

But, if in the real world, in a situation where there is a 400 yard queue in the Left hand lane, no traffic the the right hand lane and the nearest junction is 5 miles back, are you suggesting that the reason why someone goes in the R/H lane is to set a good example

I don’t do it to set a good example no.

I do it because that’s the right way to do it.

Are you suggesting I should drive badly just because lots of other people are ?

The fact that this (really simple) thing seems to confuse a lot of people really does seem strange 😐

Since we’ve had a few derogatory remarks about Audi drivers I thought I’d put this on. He is the ultimate Audi driver and he does do quite a bit of merging into other lanes. It has probably been on before but always worth watching again

Go on then. I’m curious to see if it makes a difference.

Sorry I’ve been out merging.
Said stretch of road is funnily enough on the a61 which has been mentioned a few times, heading into Alfreton. Biggg long straight where most folk queue in turn.