Now, I know cycle lanes aren't compulsory, but…

I cycled from Edinburgh to Aviemore before that SUSTRANS thing was there. The A9 was bad then but it’s worse now. Would a ghey roadie with proper ghey tyres on be able to ride that path? Or would touring/CX tyres be more appropriate? I too fear for some of the cyclists I see on it, especially the ones who think it is their right to ride more than one abreast. I call them martyrs.

I used to use that cycle path daily to commute from Bristol city centre via the Bristol Bath cycle path.

Unless it’s changed in the last 4 years it is shared use (although seperated by a white line from the pedestrian path), has some junctions (Holiday Inn, Cold Harbour Lane and HP/UWE) and the odd bit of broken glass / detritus. It’s also a bit of a faff to cross the MOD roundabout at the end if you’re heading on to Filton.

It’s undoubtedly faster to use the road and, if you’re on super skinny road tyres / tubs, you’re much less likely to puncture.

That said I chose to use the cycle path but if my destination had been different or I’d been on a different bike I may well have chosen the road.

I dislike the inference that any road with a 50mph speed limit is by definition unsafe for cyclists to use.

Oh and I reckon 152 and thread locked Unklehomered…

my biggest bugbear with local cycle paths along side duals is getting across the roundabouts, the crossing are position just enough distance from them that cars are back up to full speed where you need to cross, this with the tendency for them to be used as “drag race” starts and signs telling you to dismount you’re taking your life in your hands, much saver using the road.

they just enjoy being arseholes. There’s plenty of them on STW.

Found one!

I’ve cycled the whole of the Sustrans route with 23mm road tyres – and there’s a Sportive which uses it every year. There’s only one rough section – Drumochter summit to the Dalwhinnie turn-off. Most of the cyclists I see are on touring/trekking bikes, probably LEJOG/JOGLE, and have tyres that are more than adequate.

IHN – Member
Anyway, as I seem to have lit the righteous fury of STW by having the audacity to question a seemingly bonkers decision on the part of the cyclist in question, I think I’ll retire. Enjoy yourselves.

Hyperbole much?

Anyway, as I seem to have lit the righteous fury of STW by having the audacity to question a seemingly bonkers decision on the part of the cyclist in question, I think I’ll retire. Enjoy yourselves.

You can’t get the worms back in the can now!

I’ll take 350 posts in the sweepstake pls.

Hyperbole much?

Without doubt, the most hyperbole ever

I dislike the inference that any road with a 50mph speed limit is by definition unsafe for cyclists to use.

Speed differential is an important factor in safety though.
And dual-carriageways in particular are overly-represented in cyclist fatalities.

I commute nearly every day down the infamous Portway underneath the suspension bridge. I’m very lucky in that it is a relatively relaxed affair compared to the all out warfare that I used to encounter through the middle of town previously when I lived in Clifton.

That said, I tried the cycle path along the Portway for a while and found that it was bumpy, quite often littered with crap, and you’re constantly hit with the 50mph backdraft of the huge lorries that are only 6 ft from you.

Add into that the random signs and general bits and bobs along the way, and you end up with a pretty fraught journey (there have been a few near misses where I’ve nearly drifted into a signpost). Add into that people who just don’t get the left/right thing right, that and the fact that some feel that it’s quite alright to wobble about in the middle of the path means that I have been using the bus lane more often.

It’s the lesser of two evils – the motorbikes scare the shit out of me as they neeeow past, and the buses are generally quite respectful, and most of the time I never see one, and if I do, I know I won’t see another (based on the park and ride timetable).

It’s also smoother, quicker (really) and less stressful all around; I only have to cross the road back onto the cycle path for a bit until I then negotiate the docks through past the SS Great Britain (lovely bit that is).

I’ll also sit on the dual carraigeway on the way back for a similar reason – the surface is better and I don’t need to worry about dodging other path users.

Quite often, it’s just easier to sit on the bigger roads rather than a cycle path as you can just get your head down and bash out the miles – the paths are often very disruptive to maintain a decent pace and rhythm.

IHN – Member
“Hyperbole much?”

Without doubt, the most hyperbole ever

😀

All covered above I think, but while cyclepaths are sometimes all well and good when you’re just riding along between the turns/junctions you want to make, most of the time you’re in a much worse position when you come to make those turns than you would be if you were just on the road.

Either it’s dangerous or you have to sit and wait, giving way to cars, and then make a dash for it. On top of that there’s crossing driveways or junctions, and glass/dogs/peds/wobblers etc.

And since riding on the road is usually not that bad anyway- certainly not so bad that you’d necessarily leap atthe chance to get off it- the benefits don’t really outweigh the negatives a lot of the time, so why would you?

Its probably faster on the road and in lots of ways probably safer and the rider has decided to accept the risk of fast moving traffic over some thing else. As mentioned above cycle lanes are slow, tedious and often poorly/dangerously designed. I always preffered routes with bus lanes than cycle paths or dual carridgeways.

You can’t get the worms back in the can now!

Yes, they’re out now, and they’re breeding! You’ll be picking them up for weeks. And by the time you think you have them all, they’ll not even fit in the can anymore.

Personally, I’d ride that path. But it’s not the cycling oasis you describe it as. It’s a pavement, designed for people on foot, with a handful of signs and pretend road markings plonked on it. Don’t see the need to question anyone’s decision for riding on the road.

Would it still be a ‘bonkers’ decision if the pavement wasn’t there?

And would it be criminal to cycle on the pavement if it didn’t have pictures of bikes on it (just to let a few more worms out 😉 )?

That said, I tried the cycle path along the Portway for a while and found that it was bumpy, quite often littered with crap, and you’re constantly hit with the 50mph backdraft of the huge lorries that are only 6 ft from you.

I’ve always found the Portway really uncomfortable. I was going to use it to get to the Avonmouth bridge, but there’s no decent crossing point at the Shire end – it really disrupts a ride.

Speed differential is a an important factor in safety though.
And dual-carriageways in particular are overly-represented in cyclist fatalities.

I agree but you can easily hit 40+ mph on that stretch of road coming down hill from UWE which isn’t viable or safe on a 2 way shared use path.

More generally it’s just a short leap to say that cyclists shouldn’t use any road with a speed limit above 50 mph; this would include many of the National Speed (NS) limit lanes and A roads we all use to link off road sections.

There’s also the herd immunity argument – the less people ride on NS limit roads the less drivers will expect to see cyclists and the more dangerous it becomes.

As mentioned above cycle lanes are slow, tedious and often poorly/dangerously designed.

It is sad that this is the default assumption.

It is not always true. My A695 example above I consider the shared-use pavement a considerably nicer experience than the road (faster, less tedious, less dangerous, less stressful).

I think a lot of people just assume (from bitter experience) that all cycle paths are crap without actually trying them – leading to very good cycle paths being underused and councils wondering what they did wrong.

Wallop, agreed – that end is a bloody nightmare. Uncomfortable is probably the ideal word to describe that cycle path – never found myself enjoying it, which is a shame, as it’s got a bloody lovely view.

And dual-carriageways in particular are overly-represented in cyclist fatalities.

Do you have you a refernce for that?

The 2011 figures don’t seem to mention dc’s just;

“Around 75% of fatal or serious cyclist accidents occur in urban areas
Around half of cyclist fatalities occur on rural roads
75% happen at, or near, a road junction”

I’ll take 350 posts in the sweepstake pls.

Right you are. purchase by PP gift please

To drift into the topic, very briefly, I used to get crap off motorists for notn using a cycle lane which was sepersated from the traffic , the reason I didn’t was I needed to turn right a couple of hundred yards up the road which was much easier than crossing the road… #removes toe from the dangerous waters#

tallie: You could argue, feasibly, that as the path will often have pedestrians on it, that the cycle path should require a speed limit on it.

Not that it’d ever be enforceable, nor sensible, but it would be quite sensible as in your example.

Which leads me to completely agree with riding on the road in that respect – you can easily hit some decent speeds on a road bike, and so the road is arguably the better place in that case.

Just throwing it out there, you know.

Cycle paths round our way have been hijacked by dog walkers, so gods running off the lead and shed loads of dog poo everywhere makes using them a nightmare.

It’s funny the looks you get from walkers and doggers as you pass as if you should not be there, dispute the paths being purpose built for cycling round the town.

Also a special mention to women push prams 2 abreast leving about 50mm to get past, thanks girls.

Do you have you a refernce for that?

Looking. I have seen a figure quoted. As you say it isn’t covered in the DfT figures so I’m not sure where I saw it.

75% happen at, or near, a road junction

In other news, 75% of road space is “at or near a junction” 😉

It’s funny the looks you get from walkers and doggers as you pass as if you should not be there, dispute the paths being purpose built for cycling round the town

Doggers on a cyclepath would be pretty distracting 😯

Neil: I agree – however the reality is that at busy times, between dodging obstacles (prams, pedestrians, other cyclists coming up hill, the odd hungover UWE student) and the traffic lights you’re doing well if you can average 10-15 mph.

Having said that it’s still one of the better sections of cycle path I’ve come across…

I think Neil & MrSalmon have hit it on the head..

Quite often, it’s just easier to sit on the bigger roads rather than a cycle path as you can just get your head down and bash out the miles – the paths are often very disruptive to maintain a decent pace and rhythm.

It is generally easier on the road for a cyclist, but often more dangerous due to the other road users.

Do you have you a refernce for that?

Okay – I can’t find my reference, but from the DfT 2010 figures (table RAS30016) I can tell you that:

52 Cyclists killed on 40mph+ roads (DfT calls them “non built-up roads”)
59 Cyclists killed on < 40mph roads.

Given that, anecdotally, I see a LOT more cyclists on < 40mph roads than I do on 40mph+ roads then that would suggest the latter are more fatal – but I’m afraid I lack the proper figures to show this.

Used to live just around the corner from there (well kind of by Sainsbury’s opposite MOD), but it was a while ago.

iirc that section is just a footpath (shared use but you’d never see a pedestrian) and some paint at each end. pelican crossing to cross the traffic coming off the M32, glass and sh** on the bit under M32, then wait for a gap in 2 lanes of traffic going on to M32 and run for it. did see a woman with pushchair and kids there once. had to basically block the road so she could cross.

Cycle paths/lanes either end are brilliant in comparison.

You don’t have to use them.

I use them when they suit me. Cycles lane are often not well implemented I’m afraid.

Just to put into context what I consider a properly dodgy commute, I used to ride out of central Cardiff daily to St Mellons along the A48 dual carraigeway.

It was proper hairy along there, so the Portway is nothing compared to that (especially when the Portway is stationary yet again because of Bridge Valley Rd.

That said, the A48 used to be fun when the traffic slowed to about 20-25mph, as I used to often be able to get a tow from the lorries for a while 🙂

Used to raise an eyebrow or two that did. Can’t say I’d do it now I’m 10 years older.

Every mode of transportation needs to make compromises for other modes of transportation. Bikes for peds, Cars for bikes, Cars for buses etc.

So long as these compromises are fair I don’t see what the problem is.

So bikes using a quiet pavement alongside a busy dual carraigeway would seem fair.

ASL’s that allow bikes to get to the head of the queue at the lights for visibilty and saftey is another reasonable compromise

Banning bikes from NSL roads would be an unfair compromise.

I rode that lane for nearly 2 years when I worked that the MOD building down by the roundabout. The path is wide, clear and well maintained and crosses (if I remember correctly) a set of traffic lights and a sliproad into the hotel between the M32 and the MOD roundabout (with dropped curbs at both locations).

I thought it was a complete no-brainer to use it as it also allows slightly easier access across the M32 roundabout rather than gamble my life away cycling around it. Alright it meant I had to stop but that was a small price to pay I thought.

The vast majority of the responses and contributions to this thread have been respectful, considered and polite. Some have come close to crossing that line. If you start to make it personal and insulting then you will be warned.

Don’t sound so surprised 🙂

Some have come close to crossing that line.

Have they? Blimey, the line’s a lot closer than it used to be.

Apparently so IHN and I apologise to you if I’ve caused you offence by being unreasonably argumentative.

IHN – Member
“Some have come close to crossing that line.”

Have they? Blimey, the line’s a lot closer than it used to be.

Well my ‘Hyperbole much?’ was ‘boderline insulting and inflammatory’. I apologise for insulting and inflaming you.

What annoys is the “cyclists are taking their life into their own hands using DCs” arguments, they’re really really not, they are using a valid part of the road network to get them where they want to go in a timely and practical manner. Everyone, even those who say “I’ll never use cycle lanes full stop” should be able to ride down a road and have other road users treat them with respect and pass them patiently and safely.

Having nice segregated cycle lanes that work well and never having to mix it with >40mph traffic would be nice but at the moment they are few and far between.

Blaming the victims

again

I hate to attempt at an informed input on a thread such as this, but hey ho.

I’ve ridden / driven that particular stretch of road every working day for the last 3 years. I have been a focal point for the cycling community at the biggest employer in that area for most of that time. I have seen the cyclist mentioned in the OP – he is a bit clueless, wearing headphones and not particularly aware of his surroundings. The stretch of road has a 2+/bus lane that merges with the other two lanes to form some 5 lanes of traffic going on to / under the M32. The jockeying and lane-changing by cars / trucks on that stretch is awful and it is one of the most congested parts of the entire ring road, which is saying something.
I don’t know of any cyclist who doesn’t ride the (well maintained, quick, clear) cycle path on that stretch. From hardened commuters to happy pootlers to club racers, none of them would ride the road there. It is seconds slower to use the path on that section. Through the efforts of a colleague (AnalogueAndy), the crossings under the M32 were improved for cyclists.

So – in summary. A dangerous bit of road with a very good, no-hassle cycle path down the side that is preferred by every cyclist I know. I’ve seen the subject cyclist undertake dozens of cars and would not be at all surprised if he got mushed or at least side-swiped.

Sorry if that was a bit fact-laden and objective for STW.

Sorry if that was a bit fact-laden and objective for STW.

fair enough I respect your opinion but tallie appears to have ridden it aswell and seems to disagree. Everyone’s got their own perception of risk and practicality and I think your ire should possibly be directed at “The jockeying and lane-changing by cars / trucks on that stretch is awful”