Not putting the heating on – how’s it going…?

And say what?

Chewkw’s dwelling is so energy inefficient that the heat pump that is installed can’t keep up with demand.

Asking for some insulation improvements would probably be a start.

Chewkw’s dwelling is so energy inefficient that the heat pump that is installed can’t keep up with demand.

Asking for some insulation improvements would probably be a start.

Not sure how they can insulate the flat to be honest because there is no gap between the inner and outer wall like where you can pump the form in or add insulation fibre in. It is just a brick wall.

I think in my bedroom the cold air enter from the ventilation vent which I just closed and only leaving a tiny gap for air circulation. Although the heating radiators are working they are not hot as in burning hot hot. I set the temp of the boiler to 80c max. This is a BAXI heating unit but it does not have the big boiler tank unlike many. Apparently the heat is instant … hmmm …

Anyway, I have just switched off the central heating now as it has reached 17c. I can feel my feet and hands now.

Might take a long time to pay back the cost of the new rads tho

Quoted £200 by the plumber to install a column radiator in the kitchen as the current one is old and under-sized, this doesn’t include the rad but all pipework changes. I’m in the East.

I have succumbed…. not that it wasn’t on but because we are out at work and college for 3 days a week (wfh for 2) I was running heating mornings and evenings and in the day and night it was going off and we were coping. In the last really cold spell that might mean manually boosting from time to time on the days I wfh, but wasn’t unknown for house to drop to about 13C overnight and then the boiler having to work hard in the mornings to get to a target of 19 (or fail and then go off again after we’d all left)

December bill when it came wasn’t too bad – Nov was about £100 each for G&E, Dec was £120 + £150 – E increase no doubt due to student home from Uni and additional lighting and computer and TV…..

So when it got cold again, on the sort of recommendation of people on here instead of off during the night I’ve now set to a cooler but still tolerable 16.5C. And checking my app it looks like for example I had three burns last night each of about 20 mins duration (app is basic one so doesn’t give a lot of detail, just a bar chart) but getting up for a wee in the night, and for the dog at 0630 was so much nicer. And the morning burn to get to 19 takes quite a bit less time so i can’t actually see if it’s really taking much more energy.

I don’t have a smart gas meter and haven’t taken daily or weekly readings, and I don’t have a long cold spell to experiment in but suspect this is about the right balance of slightly extra cost (maybe) vs comfortable living.

When I let my house cool down in cold weather it takes much longer to get it warm, because everything in it is also cold – floors, furniture, chairs etc. The suggestion seems to be that if your house is well insulated it’s better to just let it cool a bit overnight rather than go off completely.

I was up last night at midnight when the heating came on (set-back temp of 16C) so I started experimenting again, this time with higher flow temps. One problem I have is that the boiler produces more heat at its minimum modulation than the radiators can emit, so it ends up in a cycling condition. But then I realised (of course) that the hotter the flow, the more heat is emitted by the radiators. So by setting a higher flow temp it might avoid the cycling. Cycling reduces efficiency, but so does higher return (and hence flow) temps. So it’s a trade-off.

There’s another factor, in that if I set the flow temp to say 70C, it takes a while to get there. So whilst at the end of the burn the return temp might be 55C, for most of the time it isn’t anywhere near that high so will be condensing well anyway. Argh!

This is why I don’t think a smart setup is going to be worth it for me, because there are too many things in my house it can’t control. I think you’d need the most modern boiler and pump to take advantage of it. Are there any smart systems that know what your boiler flow/return temps are?

I have the heating on but go round turning the taps on and off to avoid heating rooms not being used.

I held out until sometime in November but before that I found:

Difficult to get out of bed in the morning in a cold room.

Unproductive while working from home.

Excessive snacking.

For a comparison between not putting the heating on and putting the heating on – I.e cooling and warming the house. Ours runs 24/7, set at 19/20° in a 20yr old 3 bed semi

Current gas bill is £199/month, but not sure if that’s currently based on actual usage

Just done the maths…. It cost me on average 3.25€/day in fuel over the last seven days. That includes heating and cooking.

Admittedly I live in a van and everything runs on diesel and 12v solar.

Chew has a Baxi and ashp? Thats strange, unless the ashp is running UFH. The combi is then a top up. Makes billing easier, everyone pays for ufh, then if you want 22c your paying extra.
But i bet the ashp isnt set up correctly. They need to be on 24/7 as the temperature differential is low and they tend to heat up slower. Efficient once warm but has to run continuously.

Dreading this month’s bill after the cold spell this week. Heating was on for 9 hours one day and the living room still didn’t get above 16c.

Sooner we can get the shitty old boiler out and radiators sorted the better but can’t help but feel that I really want to say to hell with my principled decision to ditch the idea of a wood burner, so we can get the living room going like a furnace next winter.

Just had a look at the Smart meter, £421 for the month so far. Windy and cold west of Scotland, modernish 3 storey, 4 bed detached, brand new windows and doors in October. House sits at around 22 most of the time, I work from home mostly. Teenagers in and out and lots of tech on 24/7.

Wonder what it’ll be when the EV arrives in summer .. 🙄

£421 for the month so far

House sits at around 22 most of the time,

I think is your problem. 19 in ours, it’s not t-shirt warm, I’m in shorts and a t-shirt but a fleece up top, and it’s perfectly bearable. We used to have it at 21, but that was when energy was 1/3 the price, you soon adapt to it. Fighting to keep those extra 3 degrees is harder than the 16-19 difference, as the rate of loss to the outside is proportional to the difference between inside and outside.

Which means I don’t need all the benefit of the rebate which should have gone to those that need it, so instead I’m using it to top up the food bank cages at the supermarket. Virtue duly signalled; and Greta likes me more than you too 😉

^^^ 😁😁

22 is way warm. My hallway’s at 17 and my living spaces at 20, that feels just right.

How are those holding out on their heating or running it cooler than usual coping with mould?

We have a 19th century solid stone wall top floor Edinburgh tenement flat and run the heating at 16c. By the windows it’s about 14c.

Our bedroom has mould on the inside of the stone wall this year. Previously we’ve run the heating at 18-19 with no problem. The window in that room is double glazed but the seal failed before we moved in four years ago. The window is wet in the morning, along with all the woodwork around it. The curtains have gone mouldy and we’ve mould on the skirting boards.

Is there an alternative other than buying a dehumidifier or putting the heating up?

Reduce the humidity or raise the dew point.

I feel very extravagant having heating on for a full 1h30 from 0600 and again from 1800 in this cold snap….Normally use it 1h twice a day.

In this cold snap, we’ve been using the woodburner a fair bit, too.

House isn’t particularly well insulated; I need new windows throughout. Wearing a fleece and hat helps loads, though.

I feel for those who are struggling atm.

How are those holding out on their heating or running it cooler than usual coping with mould?

Fine here, Edinburgh victorian terrace, probably same stone walls as you and running at very similar temperature.

Between dehumidifiers and a bit of German style Stoßlüften every day I’m not really noticing issues. We do have 2x dehumidifiers on the go, one which goes on when washing is drying and another in the stairwell to kick in when humidity goes up too much. I don’t know what would be “normal” for the house as we only moved in September, there’s a bit of evidence of historical issues but nothing major. Humidity has been as low as 35% during the recent cold snap and as high as 60% during the late summer/early autumn so generally don’t think the house is a particularly damp one despite kitchen and basement being below street level.

We’ve had someone in the house every day for the last 6 weeks, so heating has been on 14 hours a day. Currently using about 60 KWh of gas a day during the cold snap. This will drop by half once it warms up, then next to nothing come April. Electricity is still around 20Kwh a day – although does drop to 12Kwh – heating the conservatory where I WFH two days a week and two gaming PC’s use the juice). 6-10 KWh for the conservatory heating during the day, and we’ve worked out the gaming PC’s are using 4Kwh in the evenings (between them)

I’m a little confused by the humidity numbers people are quoting. My humidity figures are so much higher I thought my meter might be wrong but then I checked the climate data and in the months the house is mostly open it records the same as the local weather station. The average relative humidty in Pau is 80% and it drops below 60% only about 20 days in the year. it’s currently about 95% outside and 65% inside which is what you’d expect given the temperature difference (dehumidifier not needed when the wood burner is on which it is because it’s snowing out.

So yes low in the cold snap inside – 65%, and high late Summer 75-95% (windows open). Even if I ran the dehumidifier non stop it woudln’t go down below 50% inside

22? Do you spend your day in your pants?

Mines at 17.5 and I’ve not felt cold except my feet when sat at my desk, but decent slippers (big boot shaped ones with thick memory foam soles) have solved that. It gets slightly chilly if am sat down to watch a film, but that’s solved by having a cup of tea to take the edge off.

How are those holding out on their heating or running it cooler than usual coping with mould?

Not had any other than a dirty wipe off the bottom seal of the windows. It’s a large-ish under occupied house though so I suspect it’s not getting overloaded by cooking/laundry.

I do make an effort to open doors/windows once a day (usually just when I’m in and out getting ready for work, faffing with bikes) just before the heating comes on to let the humid air out so the heating is working on dryer air.

I’m a little confused by the humidity numbers people are quoting.

it’s all relative… 😉

Interesting discussion on WatO on R4 at lunchtime (obviously, that’s when one o’clock is)

Martin Lewis and boss of UK energywatch or whoever they are about likely impacts of the end of the price guarantee vs a general decline in the wholesale price.

The energy price numbers have continued to increase but we haven’t seen because the Gov is paying whatever the cost is over the £2500 for the mythical typical house. That level goes up to £3000 in April (plus we lose the £400 rebate) and we’ll all be paying more for the energy*. But if wholesale is coming down, then the amount the Gov is subsidising by will reduce and they should have more in the coffers than envisaged – which hopefully means that those most in need can get help with their bills.

Later on this year, the wholesale price is predicted to go below the level we’re capped at at which point hopefully market dynamics means we pay a going rate, which will be below the actual cap, Gov doesn’t need to subsidise at all, and homes can also be helped through next winter. Predictions are for the average house to be £2200-ish.

* except will we? Because while we go through this hump of higher cap / before the market rate comes down – it’ll be summer. So we’ll have the higher rates on a per kWh which of course hurts, but our usage should be lower because we won’t need anywhere as much heating (hoping we don’t have -4C temperatures in May-Sept!!!) And by the time we get to needing heating back on we’ll be on market rates which while they’ll be double the pre-crisis numbers, are far more affordable for many and Gov can focus help where it’s really needed.

It sounded promising to me, at least.

which hopefully means that those most in need can get help with their bills.

you’ve not been paying attention for the last few years have you…

Is there an alternative other than buying a dehumidifier or putting the heating up?

Ventilation.

you’ve not been paying attention for the last few years have you…

Yeh, I know. How naive am I!

which hopefully means that those most in need can get help with their bills.

When has a Tory Government ever been interested in helping those most in need?

They are currently focused on destroying the NHS to ensure those most in need can’t get any medical treatment….

If anyone is interested, me and madame have spent the tail end of last year and start of this one systematically going round our house (2 bed mid 80’s bungalow semi) and improving insulation/draft proofing and making small incremental gain improvement where we can. I think in total we have spent about £1100 on insulation (celotex and recycled plastic), plasterboard, paint and various sundry items.  So far we have done the following –

Upgraded all the loft area to minimum 300 using loftlegs in the storage areas

All hatch areas are now 200mm thick celotex and rubber draft strips around the openings

We had a ‘cold’ spare room on the north corner of the house – we opened up the internal walls, removed the piecemeal glassfibre insulation and re insulated with 200mm celotex and re plasterboarded

Insulated under the floor throughout with 200mm recycled plastic wool (we have a 500mm crawlspace so did not need to lift floors)

Madame made new lined curtains for the lounge and bedroom

Added secondary glazing to the front door window and triple glazed the previous owners cat flat using some polycarbonate sheet I had in the loft

The result has been a minimum 2 degree rise in temperature. All the big improvements were instantly noticed.  Even the small improvements such as the cat flat made noticeable difference so were worthwhile.

An eye opener was how bad the 80s insulation was – not just the fact that it was too little but also how badly done it was. Gaps everywhere and frankly bodged together.

All in all we are really pleased, it was an effort to do and a thousand pounds is a decent chunk of cash but I feel it was worth it and satisfying to know we’ve stopped the heat getting out as much as we realistically can

Excellent, kormoran.

what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?
I’ll turn mine off when I can get away with it but during this recent cold spell, we’ve had a few nights I’ve turned it down to about 15c – We’ve had a few nights at around -6/7 and it’s still been around -4 at 9am.

Ours is set to 14 minimum. Boosted to 17 in the morning for an HR or so. Wood burner in the evening. Doesn’t often come on at that temp but has a couple of times recently. I’d love to insulate our flimsy upstairs bedroom walls like Koroman has as it gets cold up there but can’t face the disruption or cost at at the moment.

When has a Tory Government ever been interested in helping those most in need?

They are currently focused on destroying the NHS to ensure those most in need can’t get any medical treatment….

Please, not another politics thread, this has been useful for understanding how to optimise heating systems and operations, let’s not disappear it under another deluge of the same ten.

@keva – I posted a couple of days ago on this, it’s up near the top of the page but after another couple of days operating like this (lower temperature but still ‘on’ in the night) I’m definitely a fan.

what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?

CH (no theromostat) is on for 90mins in the morning 6.30-8am; and 2 hours in the evening 5-7pm ish. Outside of that its not on (most of the time unless its silly-ly cold).

Over taped bubble wrap over the 2 single glazed windows in the kitchen and bathroom. Think it helps a wee bit and as they’re opaque it doesn’t really effect the light either.
Got spme with a thicker clear plastic backing.
Apart from that, log burner and then running the heating from 7pm for a couple of hours to warm the bedroom.
Elec blanket on for an hr before bed.
158kwh gas so far this month. Which is acceptable i think.

what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?

I’ve normally switched it off at 9pm and doesn’t come back on till 6.45, house probably drops to about 15C in the kitchen (warmest room) overnight. By about 7.30 it’s back up to 18 which is warm enough. The thermostat has a setting of 14C, IIRC, overnight to stop the place getting too cold to heat back up quickly in the morning.

During the cold snap morning temp range from 11-13. Stay at that most of the day. Wood burner in evening get living room up t 20 for a short while, rad (off wood burner) get rest up to about 15 Deg c. Kids bedroom has oil rad in it. We have electric blanket. WFH and have had a electric radiator on below my desk on low for today and last Thursday. I have a hat on nearly all the time I am not in the shower 😂.

Which means I don’t need all the benefit of the rebate which should have gone to those that need it, so instead I’m using it to top up the food bank cages at the supermarket

Off topic but I would never, ever buy food from the supermarket to put in the food bank cages. These are the same supermarkets exploiting massive inflation and claiming huge costs but cheerfully passing the same costs on to their customers to continue making hundreds of millions of pounds in profit.

I gave cash directly to the food bank and trust them to buy from the best place.

Off topic but I would never, ever buy food from the supermarket to put in the food bank cages.

me neither. if you don’t leave the store with it, its not shoplifting…

what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?

It’s off. It’s on for an hour in the morning (6-7 in the week, 8-9 at weekends) then from 17:00 to 20:30 at night. Otherwise it’s off. The house gets cold in the middle of the day/night, but it doesn’t matter as we’re not there or in bed.