Not putting the heating on – how’s it going…?

@molgrips I’d fling a tap on that, the condensate drain is also a source of CO hence the tight regs about where they can drain to these days.

Bainbridges – just off Bigg Market; wow – decades ago.

Nothing like that now. Plenty of empty shops though and TJ Hughes.

Good to see that Fenwick are still going strong!

Yes, nice departmental store.

My home town was Wallsend…
Wallsend born, Wallsend bred, Strong in the arm, Thick in the head – but can be modified for any location.

Shipyard is no longer there and nothing wrong with being thick. No need to think too much and let the nature takes it course.

Educated and socialised in Newcastle.

Proper upbringing that.

Any memories of the Spit’n’Vomit opposite the Central?

No idea but now just plenty of takeaways.

Well, I find the Toon rather peaceful. Apart from my Marxist friend who is born and bred in North Shield constantly complaining about it being a dump but still live there LOL!, also occasionally my drug addict neighbour or some sort of addiction anyway who lives above me fought on the road, shouting at his friends at odd hours, door being kicked in and waking up at 4am in the morning chatting loudly to his friends (probably high or drunk), picking up cigarette end at the city centre sometime, things thrown at his flat landed on my windows (no damage just can of beer), stealing my small recycle bins (my own not council) but I just let them be. So long as they don’t hassle me that’s fine while I enjoy my cigarette. They can knock themselves out as much as they like while I watch. I did. They fought in the middle of the road and stopping the traffic. Generally, he just let me be and we greet each other from time to time. Other neighbours are all on benefits or in their retirements as I was told by my landlord who is a nice guy. That’s the life of Toon. LOL! (oh ya the other retired neighbours (couples) love to sign karaoke at 3am in the morning with her friends (normally several of them ladies) but does not affect me at all. Generally, the toon is peaceful and I like it. LOL!

or adjust them properly

FFS! Thanks for posting that video, our front door leaks like a seive so I’ll have a go at that shortly, I wish I’d known before. Luckily ours is the outside of a small porch which means the porch acts as an airlock.

Counting the cost here, with my wife suffering from joint issues we can’t turn the heating any lower than 18/20 and even so our December bill looks to be in the region of £500. Luckily we have £725 credit, so with the the £218 monthly payment will be eating into half of that, let’s hope for a milder January.

Quite fortunate that by coincidence we had a leaking inlet pipe on the boiler that BG fixed – and justified the cost of the annual repair contract – the week before it snowed.

My home town was Wallsend…
Wallsend born, Wallsend bred, Strong in the arm, Thick in the head – but can be modified for any location.

My mum’s family were from Walker and Wallsend, my Grandad lived in Walker and drank at the Wallsend Buffs, that was late 80’s when i was at University. My auntie lived in the apartments just opposite the gates to Swan Hunter (Winifred Gdns, I think) and then moved into Grandad’s house when he was in a care home and eventually died, so she’s still there. So although as Chewk says I’m a softie southerner, I spent lots of happy times in the school holidays up there with my two cousins.

My grandad was a band leader, before and after the war, and we used to go to ‘all’ the clubs in the area where he was still recognised and known and rarely had to buy his own pint. I’ll be damned if I can remember the names properly, because no-one calls them by their real name (at least didn’t then…. but the three that stick in the mind are the top, middle and bottom clubs!)

our front door leaks like a seive so I’ll have a go at that shortly, I wish I’d known before. Luckily ours is the outside of a small porch which means the porch acts as an airlock.

Ours too and a near identical porch-wise set up. I tried following that ‘fix’ in the video but no luck. Unfortunately, the hinges are knackered on the external door, and it catches all year round anyway, but I can’t afford to replace it at the moment.

“Crucially you need a high surface area to volume ratio”

Erm… like with an Ice cube tray? Which divides am already small body of water into about 16 even smaller bodies of water?

That would depend on the ice cube tray, they usually have a lot of surface area underneath them, and to achieve the effect you’re referring to you need surface area for evaporation, not conduction.

I tried following that ‘fix’ in the video but no luck

Same, I just tried it but it didn’t cure the draft. I can however see that the guide for it on the frame has ovalised screw holes, with the screws centralised. Rather than stand with the door open now I’ll wait 48hrs for the temps to rise (South East) then loosen all of those and slide the guides inward to see if that helps.

@squirrelking yeah I’m working out what to do but I’ll do it fast. I bought a CO alarm in the meantime.

I heard it as *born and *bred, thick in head and sh*t in bed. So even more modifications.

Blimey just looked at my Edf app for the first time. Av for last Jan £6.66pd, av for Dec so far £16pd plus about £6-8pd in smokeless fuel. I’m going to have to start giving up on life.

@molgrips if you have a nearby drain just tie it into that and cap the old line. As long as its on the smelly side after the trap it’s safe. You can get a 22mm to 44mm boss from McAlpine, that’s how I tied mine in.

Update on my first night sleep using the 600g Devon wool duvet I bought yesterday.

Room temp last night was 8c and the duvet was able to keep me comfortable. I cannot say that it gave me instant warm but it was alright. Not too cold or warm but I prefer it to be warmer. My left foot was very cold (poor blood circulation I guess) but it was fine after one or two hours.

Well, I shall give a few more nights to see how it goes. I just checked the label again and it is a super king size 600g instead of king size, but not sure why it manages to fit king size duvet cover.

Oh well as long as it last and keep me alive I am happy with it.

@squirrelking that’s the easy part; the hard bit is routing the pipe behind the cupboard without having to remove the whole kitchen!

On a Smart heating note I’m a big fan, mostly as I can just turn it off/on from my phone if I work late or stay out one evening, I’ve had Tado and now Google nest systems

But for all the data it generates I bloody hate the limited amount they actually share back with you

E.g. this time last year my house didn’t have a stitch of insulation in the loft, I’ve put 300mm down over the summer but temp to temp I’ve no idea what difference it’s made, and if, say what happens if I cover the front door for a few days to see if it’s drafty as, I get I’m living in a leaky old Victorian terrace and it’s far from an exact science (wind direction, speed etc) but at least with some decent data you could learn a bit and make improvements where needed most. It’s crap.

@chewkw,you’ll need to bathe in this,

normal cylindrical insulation won’t fit.
Any ideas?

@mudfish

I’ve used wrap round silvered bubble wrap pipe insulation where gaps are all wrong or some pipe joins where chamfering the silver foam tubes doesn’t work. The packet says it meets pipe insulation standards. It is a bit of a pain coiling it round and round though.
Like this from Toolstation but also Screwfix and most other DIY or plumbing shops:
https://www.toolstation.com/ybs-thermawrap-spiral-pipe-wrap/p42791

I reckon I’m now getting 25% more heat out of my boiler after all this.

I cut a load of little chunks of pipe insulation for my airing cupboard and taped them in place, then any bits that were too fiddly I used that bubble wrap strip as above. It looks like shit but it made a big difference in leaked heat and was especially useful keeping temps down in the summer.

Earlier on I saw a video that had clips that went around the pipe insulation and held that instead of the actual pipe itself, so the insulation could be uninterrupted. If you removed the existing clips is there enough give to move the pipe slightly away from the wall enough to do something like that?

I’ve had a quick look back and I can’t find which video it was now, sorry. Was it a CondensatePro product though? Maybe…

Thanks for insulation tips. I’ll try the ‘silvered bubble wrap’ Toolstation wrap first.
Yes Phiiil I saw those clamps too somewhere
[ https://www.rockwool.com/uk/products-and-applications/product-overview/hvac/rocklap-pipe-supports/ ].
I don’t think my pipes can move that much though.
For now, covering the metres of exposed pipe between the clamps must help.
That wrap stuff is claimed to be as good as 35mm of rock wool. I’m sure the tubular foam stuff, especially the more expensive variety would be better but the wrap will be a first step.
One pal wanted me to use spray foam but in case of a leak that may be problematic.

Woken up to no snow and 11 degrees (London). Hallelujah.

Just come home last night from being away this weekend. We set the heating to come on for an hour in the morning and in the evening. New record low of 10.4 in my office over the weekend. This morning it is 11.5 outside and it was only 12 inside. Even now with the heating on for an hour it is not climbing much. Beginning to wonder if there is an issue with the house other than the leaking garage…

It’s all about thermal mass of your house.

It takes a lot of energy to change the temperature of such a large structure and having the heating on for an hour is going to make little difference.

Yeah I’ve switched to continuous heating and just knock the temperature back at night and during the day. But then, I’m home all day.

It takes a while to heat the house from cold if I turn the flow temp down. Kinda hard to tell if it’s more efficient without decent instrumentation though.

re lagging pipework, apart the fit being tight is there any need to use anything other than foam tubes that you’d usually find in B&Q?

It’s all about thermal mass of your house.

Yep, I think once the fabric of the house has warmed up it’s easier to keep it there.

Not heating the house until later in the year plus going almost straight into a very cold spell has made it harder to get the house up to a comfortable base temperature.
This mild weather will help.

Re: the perennial ‘leave it on low all the time’ vs ‘fire it up just when you need it debate’. Has anyone ever reached an absolute conclusion on this – other than ‘it depends’?

I usually get a bit bored with all the inevitable squabbling on here before the final reveal so probably miss out on any really useful conclusions.

<edit>

Not heating the house until later in the year plus going almost straight into a very cold spell has made it harder to get the house up to a comfortable base temperature

That’s what we’ve found. We usually start end Oct/beginning of November and put that back nearly a month this year plus it’s on for less time/1°C lower and it’s been very cold (and damp) regardless of the cold snap.

Isn’t it more, temperature controlled rather than time?

Ie mine thermostat is set to 16deg between 9pm and 7am. It rarely drops that low but would fire if need be.

18 deg from 7am to 9pm.

So it’s ON all the time but heating for a fraction of that.

Isn’t it more, temperature controlled rather than time?

@Jambo I think one school of thought is it’s ‘on’ 24/7 but at (say) 14°C (or whatever) vs timed at ~17°C (or whatever). I think Jambo’s example is the latter which is what we do.

Has anyone ever reached an absolute conclusion on this – other than ‘it depends’?

It does depend though. Some households yes, others no.

In my case, I discovered through measuring temps that to get the house up to temp fast enough after being off all day required the flow temp to be set high, which means inefficient boiler temps because we don’t have enough rads to shift that much heat, so it ended up back at the boiler. If I turned the temps down it took ages to heat up, and the boiler also ended up short cycling. But on the other hand, less heat is lost to the outside. Is it more efficient? I don’t know, I didn’t do a controlled experiment in the recent fairly consistent temps, I was too busy trying to fix the shonky system. However I have found that if the heating is off for long periods in the cold weather then it’s not just the air that gets cold, everything in the house gets cold too – floors, furniture, walls, the lot – and even when the thermostat goes off the place still feels cold. So when the heating is on all the time with setback temperatures a couple of degrees behind the peak, the peak temp can be much lower for the same degree of comfort.

I usually get a bit bored with all the inevitable squabbling on here before the final reveal so probably miss out on any really useful conclusions.

You just have to do your own experiments. Make changes, take a meter reading every day if you don’t have a smart meter.

Re: the perennial ‘leave it on low all the time’ vs ‘fire it up just when you need it debate’. Has anyone ever reached an absolute conclusion on this – other than ‘it depends’?

Have it on 24/7 but use the thermostat to regulate the temperature for when you need it the most.

So for me its 18-20c for the room in in.
~13-15c for the rooms in not in
10c overnight

As Jambo says, once at a temperature the heatings rarely on. Its just keeping it topped up.

Trying to heat the whole house up from 12c in an hour wont work, as its going to take a huge amount of energy to heat your house up 1c.

After being sceptical, having a smart meter fitted was the best thing i’ve ever done.
It allows you to play around with things and have the information available for what you have consumed.

No easy way to acurately measure consumption here as we’re on oil. I can estimate to a couple 8f hundred litres but the potential error rate is high and might disguise/isn’t granular enough to see what’s really going on.

You could rig something up that listens for boiler noise using a Raspberry Pi or something if you really wanted to. There are lots of ‘maker’ people doing similar who don’t have smart meters, apparently.

Re thermal mass – our Victorian Industrial building house lags ambients by 2days – noticeably warmer outside than indoors.

Re the pipe clamps above – Caddy clamps will be cheaper from here;
I use them for cryogenic piping.

https://www.valvestubesfittings.com/caddy-macrofix-epdm-rubber-lined-steel-pipe-clip-dn25

I read somewhere (Wiser website/forums or perhaps elsewhere) that recommended minimum temperature ideally shouldn’t be more than 3c below your ‘comfort’ temperature.

I’ve followed this since having Wiser installed – my rooms are set to heat up to 18-19c, but not to drop below 15c. Has generally worked well, apart from the coldest snaps where the kitchen (undersized radiator for the space) and bathroom (towel rail only, and the one zone without TRV as directed) struggle.

No easy way to acurately measure consumption here as we’re on oil.

fit an inline flow meter….

You could rig something up that listens for boiler noise using a Raspberry Pi or something if you really wanted

One way is to detect the flame or power to the pump.

fit an inline flow meter….

There are cheaper ways I think but it’s a definite option.

I did what’s been mentioned above, but with an Arduino. I measured the time the boiler was on with a microphone. It displayed how long it was on for each 24 hours. You should be able to find what jet is in your boiler, and from that a flow rate per minute, hence how much oil has been used. It agreed with my measurement from the sight glass before and after adding a known amount of oil.

But a pain compared to a smart meter .

Aye. I suspect this is one of those ‘spend a fortune fitting measuring kit to save £50’ situations…

You stand to save a fair bit more than the cost of a Pi and a mic with prices as high as they are, I reckon.

Earlier on I saw a video that had clips that went around the pipe insulation and held that instead of the actual pipe itself, so the insulation could be uninterrupted. If you removed the existing clips is there enough give to move the pipe slightly away from the wall enough to do something like that?

I wouldn’t worry too much about it, covering 95% of the pipe in insulation is still going to save you very close to 95% of the heat loss.

On a Smart heating note I’m a big fan, mostly as I can just turn it off/on from my phone if I work late or stay out one evening, I’ve had Tado and now Google nest systems

But for all the data it generates I bloody hate the limited amount they actually share back with you

This is a great use case for Home Assistant – you could record target temp, actual temp, external temp, whether the boiler is firing & even the unit cost of gas/electric at that time. There’s an open-source add-on called Grafana which does a lot of snazzy analysis & visualisation on said data (not played around with that yet though) so you could easily figure out exactly how long it takes the rooms/house to heat & cool down (with different external temps), and how much it’s costing you!

You stand to save a fair bit more than the cost of a Pi and a mic with prices as high as they are, I reckon.

if Richmars did it with an Arduino then you’re probably looking at about a tenner’s worth of cheap electronics from eBay so definitely!!