No pension, no worries.

@seosamh77 – I take your point, but personally I wouldn’t be happy living on a state pension. We all have different aspirations and some of those require more money than others. I just don’t see how I could cope living in a council flat on a state pension. I was going to say that I know some people who are happy like that, but actually I don’t! I had a lot of older relatives who did finish up in council flats on a state pension with no other savings and they all suffered badly in their later years as a result. It certainly made me aspire not to end up in the same boat.

Those who think there will be no state pension in 40 years – can you explain exactly what you think is going to happen? Will the country see a government allowing hundreds of thousands of elderly people starve to death? Will it become the norm? Seriously

Well, most people’s kids would probably put them in the spare room and feed them before they actually starved. But for those without kids with a spare room, some sort of dormitory, and a bit of soup would prevent actual starvation.

It takes a lot of faith in government to assume that something simply must be provided, because otherwise things would be horrid. The state pension was first paid just over 100 years ago. The society that existed before that time was hardly unrecognisable to us, and plenty of people lived longer than they could work.

moshimonster – Member

@seosamh77 – I take your point, but personally I wouldn’t be happy living on a state pension. We all have different aspirations and some of those require more money than others. I just don’t see how I could cope living in a council flat on a state pension. I was going to say that I know some people who are happy like that, but actually I don’t! I had a lot of older relatives who did finish up in council flats on a state pension with no other savings and they all suffered badly in their later years as a result. It certainly made me aspire not to end up in the same boat.

I’m not arguing it’s desirable, I don’t aspire to it myself.

I just don’t have the fear of it that some people have.

I quite like this example. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11876532

Which is hilarious… NOT. Yes everyone in the country can afford to save £100 per month from their mid-20’s as long as…
– they don’t buy a house
– live close to work
– have a job for life
– don’t get divorced
– don’t have kids (or only have well behaved kids who then earn loads of money)
… i.e. if they lived in some utopian vision of the 50’s

Bacause ultimately, a fulfulling life doesn’t come down to cash. It comes down to you personally and the people surrounding you.

Well, that depends on the person. What fulfills one person may not another.

Personally the thought that I might be stuck in one country for my remaining 25 years would be depressing. But that’s just me, I like to travel.

when i get old or older, i wont mind ending up like my mother, in a sheltered housing scheme, surrounded by old folk like me, who pretty much are the same as me.
they get on fine, plenty of stuff going on to keep em all happy.

the wife had a uncle who was a md of a engineering company, pretty poked up bloke, who when he retired saw nobody for days on end…..nice way to go that, sat in you big old house, counting your pension fund……..not!!

DaRC_L – Member
I quite like this example. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11876532

what they don’t tell ye is that bob got knocked down by a bus aged 52 and regretted the lack of coke and hookers on his death bed! 😆

nice way to go that, sat in you big old house, counting your pension fund……..not!!

Lol yeah right, as if I wouldn’t be able to think of anything to do with my money besides count it 🙂

Anyway maybe that bloke didn’t like other people. That happens.

molgrips, lets just hope you age well, and keep healthy for a long time, to spend all you dosh eh?……….shit can happen as you get older.

DaRC_L – Member

I quite like this example. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11876532

hang on, 7% interest? – where?!?!?

DaRC_L – Member
I quite like this example. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11876532

I’d quite like the 7% interest those rascals are getting

I’d rather jump out a plane with no parachute, whilst tripping out my nut on hi grade acid, to be honest!

Hey! That’s my end of life plan!

I just don’t have the fear of it that some people have.

That’s interesting. After seeing my elderly relatives state funded lifestyle in 80’s Oldham I was terrified of ending up like that! Luckily that fear helped me to get well clear of that prospect.

when i get old or older, i wont mind ending up like my mother, in a sheltered housing scheme, surrounded by old folk like me, who pretty much are the same as me.

We’re all different I guess. That would be a nightmare for me!

I’d quite like the 7% interest those rascals are getting

Not unreasonable if investing in unit trusts or similar

“Please remember the value of an investment may fall as well as rise and is not guaranteed. You may get back less than you invest.”

not exactly what you want for your long-term savings…

Moshi, whats your point? That I shouldn’t trust my own kids with safeguarding my cash in the future?

No, just seemed an odd way of trying to eek out a state pension when you clearly have your own savings to get by on. Why put the burden on your kids to look after you?

We are both missing each others point here. What burden wouldthere be on my own kids o hand over some cash that I have handed to them earlier in life out of a svings account?

I am no eeking out a state pension. I am getting some return on the tax I have paid for my entire working life. I am also protecting money I have also paid tax on whilst earnng it. It is no different than paying an accountant to save a business paying tax by using tax allowances.

It will all be done legally as my wife works a a solicitors and we have taken advice and will continu to do so.

not exactly what you want for your long-term savings…

Seriously? Where’s your money?

It will all be done legally as my wife works a a solicitors and we have taken advice and will continu to do so.

Serious question – I was under the impression that you can only make gifts of £3k cash per year to someone, and above that the gifts are taxed? I looked into this when my mum got cancer and we were worried about having to sell her house to pay for care.

Some very selfish and short-sighted views being offered here. It’s possible that your retired life could be as long as your working one and yet you expect the tax payer to pick up the bill for you being too selfish to save for it?
The Daily Mail are definitely wrong – its not the immigrants we need to worry about but the country’s future pensioners!

I retired early and bloody glad I have a pension, its been a second life. I now have the time and some cash to enjoy those things I couldnt because of lack of time. Your a fool if you think you can ignore your pension situation. Or rather you will be back on here bemonaing the fact.

My father is now 66 and still working (he can’t afford not to). My FIL retired at 56 after saving all his life.

I’m somewhere in between their respective behaviours. My pension funds are patchy, but I do save (not enough cash IMO – it’s mainly in shares).

The mortgage will be gone by 50, though I’d like it to be well before then (ideally if the share scheme I’m in comes to fruition in a few years).

My fear is not so much retirement (I’ll be more like 66 than 56) but the dangers of long term illness preventing me from accruing enough in time.

The Daily Mail are definitely wrong – its not the immigrants we need to worry about but the country’s future pensioners!

Hey!
I resemble that remark

@55 I have very little chance of saving enough to keep me in old age so I’ll be relying on the youngsters to get their wallets out 🙂

I started my first private pension when I was about 22 and paid into that for 8 years, unfortunately, the company owner somehow got access to the pot and stole it. I paid nothing into another one until I was 34

If public sector pensions and state pensions are going to collapse (as per earlier “Ponzi scheme” comments) then the country is screwed anyway. The economy needs people to have money to spend to function, if a large and increasing section is impoverished – living on subsistence benefits – then who is going to be buying goods and services?

The answer is not easy – extending working life to 70 and beyond seems like the only option, but that relies on an steady increase in healthy life expectancy. I think we all need a change in mind-set (I’m not as old as my name suggests) and give up any ideas of early retirement, and structure our working lives so we can enjoy life now rather than banking on a long and healthy retirement. I also think that a reassessment of working patterns to allow people to reverse their careers in later life, shedding responsibility and reducing wages if they wish.

There is always a false sense of believing that things will always be as they are, but the welfare state and even widespread occupational pensions are historically recent – if we want to maintain these we need to really rethink the how society operates

Not collapse necessarily, although that could happen. But the obvious demographics and dodgy structure of state pensions makes it pretty certain that current arrangements cannot be sustained. Unions should be advising people about this not organising futile strikes.

I am glad that ton/OP has a slightly romanticised view of how this plays out – I do not share his confidence and would rather prepare for a different scenario. One reason why my MTB is seven years old!

I do hope that you are right though ton!

Wouldn’t it be better if we could all work more flexibly, in the future?

That way instead of retiring outright we could go down to fewer hours once our mortgages are paid off and our kids are gone.

Wouldn’t it be better if we could all work more flexibly, in the future?

Is that ‘flexible’ as in the zero hours contract, min wage style ‘flexibility’ so beloved of the Tories?

Obviously not – flexibility as desired by the employee, not the other way round.

That way instead of retiring outright we could go down to fewer hours once our mortgages are paid off and our kids are gone.

Aren’t “young people” getting on the property ladder later these days and with student loans and the like to pay off the day of paying off the mortage gets later and later too.And their kids will probably be at home in their 40s if current trends continue 😐

Yeah that needs fixing too 🙂

I have no interest in lining the pockets of bankers or pension advisors for some false sense of security for my pension only for it to stop when I croak.

I’ll sort my own plan out.

How’re you going to do that without lining the pockets of bankers?

I’ll sort my own plan out.

You mean a SIPP?

olddog speaks sense

I think we all need a change in mind-set (I’m not as old as my name suggests) and give up any ideas of early retirement,

I dont agree, what is true is that that there is no norm and we all come at this from different routes with have differnet expectations. This seems obvious from the replies on this post from those that have succesfully saved and planned for their retirement and others that are somewhere else on the spectrum of provision for old age.

The state will/might deliver some sort of pension and what the individual may can provide for themselves. Short answwer is you can do something for yourself and the state my/will chip in some amount at some time. The bit you can rely on in my experience is the bit you do for yourself.

How’re you going to do that without lining the pockets of bankers?

this type of attitude is a symptom of the ‘problem’ lots of people seem to have with pensions. too many people don’t want to take any interest in or responsibility for their own futures.

if you’re not planning your future finances for yourself, not in control of where your hard earned £ is invested, not trying to maximize the returns you’re getting, not trying to minimize costs, not working out how much you need and the best way to get it then there’s really no hope for you.

his type of attitude is a symptom of the ‘problem’ lots of people seem to have with pensions. too many people don’t want to take any interest in or responsibility for their own futures.

Yeah you’ve not answered my question though. How exactly?

I don’t see it as not taking responsibility – I see it as paying for a service. I’m paying someone to make money for me. I could invest my own money directly, I suppose, but to do so effectively would require me to become an expert in investment which I’m not prepared to do – my time is better spent elsewhere.

there’s really no hope for you

Oh **** off. Don’t talk such bollocks. No hope? I’m going to be destitute because I used a managed fund? Really? You’re talking arse.

+1 djambo (except for the last four words 😉 )

How exactly?

Vanguard index funds in a SIIP (extremely cheap, minimizing banker pocket lining) are where 99% of people should look IMHO.

I don’t see it as not taking responsibility – I see it as paying for a service. I’m paying someone to make money for me.

Can you honestly tell me you know how many % points you’re paying a year for your pension to be fully managed by some kind man thats going to make you lots of money?

Lets assume you have £100k invested for 20 years and get a return of 6% per year. If your paying 2.5% in fees (this is probably conservative for most people with actively managed funds) you’ll end up with £198k at the end. Get your fees down to 0.32% per year (currently what i pay) and with the same £100k you’ll end up with £301k. Thats over a £100k extra for the sake of 30 minutes spent reading your pension fund prospectus, checking the fees and switching the funds your money gets diverted in to.

You’re talking arse

Still think so?

there’s really no hope for you

soz, maybe a little harsh 😉