This is just me howling through a load-hailer into a shipping container as I watch the Corbynite lefty morons deliver us 20+ years of Tory rule

No. Just popped back on this thread to have a look and its depressing. I find myself completely in agreement with everything you have said.

Im not inspired by any of the candidates to be honest.

Ransos – what has McCluskey delivered for members of the union he leads?
What has he done to help make labour party electable?
By any metric, can you show how he is he ‘value for money’?
He has been hugely successful in extracting money from the membership – salary, expenses and lifestyle – but doing little of value for the members who fund the extravagance.
How about compare and contrast – McCluskey v Mick Cash (or his pre-decessor Bob Crow), for example.
The former abuses the privilege of leadership in so many ways; Cash and, before him, Crow were there for the working man – militant, yes, but/and very successful.
The sooner McCluskey clears his desk, Milne and Lansman walk – a general cleansing of the Augean stables – the better labour will be.
They have played at being politicians for a few years but are woefully inept.
Time for the grown-ups to run the show again.

Does anyone know binners in real life? I’m starting to worry about him – it might be time for an intervention.

Don’t worry about me. Arguing with deluded Corbynites on here is a form of therapy

It stops me kicking kittens

And you can’t voice opinions like mine about Corbyn, McClusky and the Marxist Mafia on social media because you’d end up with death threats.

But that’s the kinder, gentler politics for you

Does anyone know binners in real life? I’m starting to worry about him – it might be time for an intervention.

It’s OK, Gregg’s spotted their biggest fan and put an outlet <1 mile from his house.

Mmmmmmmmm…. steak bakes

If you’re watching QT at the moment then people are repeatedly pointing out the obvious

The Labour Party had an unelectable leader, a front bench that wasn’t up to the job and a fantasy manifesto.

Clive Lewis is actually coming across really well, but I still don’t think he quite gets it. The scale of the Labour trouncing

Maybe if you lot had learnt anything at all in the last 4 years I might make some effort to mask my total and utter contempt…

What “lot” is that?

Ransos – what has McCluskey delivered for members of the union he leads?

No idea – why don’t you ask one of his supporters? If you can avoid calling them names that’d be great.

What ‘lot’ is that?

…

As for Len, Like politicians maybe he should publish his expenses? I don’t know about you but I didn’t expect my employer to buy me a luxury apartment in central London then pick up my bar tab at the Ivy

Man of the people though, eh?

Socialism in action

What ‘lot’ is that?

Shame you chose to hide behind another silly picture. Coward.

This is just me howling through a load-hailer into a shipping container as I watch the Corbynite lefty morons deliver us 20+ years of Tory rule

Also agree but I’d prefer to shout at clouds.

Awwww…. bless

You struggling with the total ineptitude of it all? The utter shambles?

Maybe I could post up a picture of the board of British Leyland?

easily

Member

Does anyone know binners in real life? I’m starting to worry about him – it might be time for an intervention.

Yes.
He’s a genuinely lovely little sausage, who has made a success of his life through hard work, genuine talent and absolute decency.

It’s only politics. Meh.

ransos – get a couple of things straight:
– I have not called anyone names in my posts on this subject; referring to McCluskey as comrade len is not name calling
– your posts suggest you have some comradely love for len; if not then be clear about what you are saying; is McCluskey a waste of space? If not, in your opinion, explain why.

He’s a genuinely lovely little sausage, who has made a success of his life through hard work, genuine talent and absolute decency.

Are there two binners? This sounds nothing like the one I’ve met.

ransos – have just done a quick review of your posts on this topic, you have said nothing of interest or relevance.
Can you up your posting game?

He bought me a pint once.
Just the once, to be fair.

I’d be willing to slag him off for cash my way?

Does anyone know binners in real life?

Yup. Been out riding with him loads. Last time was on Monday. Try not to worry, no intervention necessary, this is the internet, not real life 😉

Back on topic though, being pro-left shouldn’t be confused with being pro-McCluskey or any of the other personalities. There are narcissists and incompetents across the political spectrum. Doesn’t change the arguments on policy or ideology though. The problem is that we focus on the personalities not the policies. I’m interested in the latter not the former.

You do. See page 66 of your rulebook.

I was not aware of that, thanks for pointing that out.

ransos – get a couple of things straight:
– I have not called anyone names in my posts on this subject; referring to McCluskey as comrade len is not name calling
– your posts suggest you have some comradely love for len; if not then be clear about what you are saying; is McCluskey a waste of space? If not, in your opinion, explain why.

1. I never said you called anyone names. I’d just prefer it if you didn’t follow binners’ tedious example, is all.

2. I don’t believe I’ve ever expressed any admiration for McCluskey. If not, perhaps you could quote the relevant posts.

3. It seems that you are keen to ascribe views and positions to me that I do not hold. If you want to know something, ask, rather than making stuff up. In other words, up your game.

I was not aware of that, thanks for pointing that out.

No worries. I’m pretty sure it’s a legal requirement.

Binners – continuing to add to the rejection of the left. There is no distinction between the right-wing tabloid press and his verbiage. The right love Jess too.

Tories managed to elect a useless leader. It doesn’t matter when you have the weight of opinion in your favour.

At the end of the next five years people will be ready for some form of socialism.

Disaster socialism?

Brilliant!

The right love Jess too.

Who do you mean as “the right”?

I still don’t think she’s the right leader… but then I have only voted for Labour with Corbyn as leader. The challenge is to keep me and others who might consider themselves “left”, yet win over voters who you might consider “right”, and voted for another party at the last 2 general elections. If Jess can win enough of those people over to Labour, while keeping half of the left wing policies Labour have been offering in the last few years to keep those enthused by that direction on side as well… then perhaps she is the right choice.

At the end of the next five years people will be ready for some form of socialism.

We already have “some form of socialism”… (ask an American if you think we don’t)… and, yes, I think the public will want to build on that, rather than continue to edge away from it, in five years… but they will not get behind a jump to the left anything like the current Labour team have been offering… even if we support it. To get into government, Labour can’t just carry on pretending that they can get 40% of voters singing the red flag… they have to be offering a fresh alternative that isn’t full of too much socialist and nationalising rhetoric and policy.

We already have “some form of socialism”…

We really don’t. Just because we’re not as bad as the US doesn’t make us socialist. We live in a lightly regulated free market economy. The only socialism that exists here is in the form of the state propping up the interests of billionaires and corporations through tax breaks, subsidies and bailouts when they’re required.

I think the public will want to build on that

No they won’t. We’re firmly on the path to US-style beggar-thy-neighbour cut-throat capitalism. The destruction of industry in the 80s and the communities and support networks it created has resulted in people not caring about anyone outside their own social bubble. Combine that with the availability of cheap credit and asset price inflation most people in this country think they’re on the right side of the rich vs poor divide. The result is no one gives a sh*t about the poor enough to vote in their interests. Things will get a lot worse before they get better. It’s probably going to need another debt crisis to burst the bubble.

challenge is to keep me and others who might consider themselves “left”

Things will get a lot worse before they get better.

^^^
In a PR system these sorts of folks would vote for a well to the left socialist party which would see some power in coalition with social democrats, get some of its policies implemented and have some bearing on debate. But they can’t quite bring themselves in our first past the post system to support the kind of labour party that most of the country will vote for. Hence hopes that disaster will make people open their eyes and vote for socialism (not what usually happens).

The destruction of industry in the 80s… support networks

Agreed- whenever car factories, mine closures etc were referenced with X thousand job losses, they never mentioned the wider effect on the businesses supplying them and even shops that their wages were spent in.

If you want to get an idea of what the public want look back over the last 40 years. Not very socialist is it…

Hence hopes that disaster will make people open their eyes and vote for socialism

No one’s hoping for disaster, it’s just the (almost) inevitable reality. Much like climate change, we can see it coming, but we can’t stop it because we don’t have the collective power to force the tiny few people who profit from it to change.

Disaster socialism is load of rubbish. If a collapse happens, whether it’s economic, environmental, political or all three (climate change will see to that), people will be too busy trying to survive to organise themselves into any sort of movement, and a new generation of oligarchs will sieze power in the vacuum.

Things will only change when the people at the top fear their power is under threat. That’s only going to happen if people act now when they can, in whatever form they can, rather than waiting for some disaster or leftwing messiah to appear in the future.

right. Look at the US – I’d call it a disaster if we became even more like them. That’s what’s happening. People are not going to vote for full-blooded socialism so perhaps get labour back sufficiently centre-ground to be able to stop this happening.

At the end of the next five years people will be ready for some form of socialism

I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but, if it looks red, or has the word socialist on it, it won’t be voted for. If it looks a bit more moderate, it might be.

Believing that five years of Boris will get you socialism is just pie eye moon dreams.

Indeed

Yet there seems to be a totally delusional and arrogant attitude within the labour party that they are right about everything, and therefore at some point a majority of the population will realise this. So they don’t need to change anything, just carry on being right (and righteous) and they’ll get there chance next time around when the electorate become more enlightened and realise whats good for them

The main advocate of this seems to be Rebecca ’10 out of 10′ Long-Bailey which would mean she would be an absolute disaster as leader and lead the party even further out into the unelectable political wilderness.

The candidate who does genuinelly seem to get the true magnitude of the problem, and just how detached the London-centric, pie-in-the-sky party has become from their (former) ‘heartlands’ is Lisa Nandy.

I don’t think she has what it takes to be th leader to challenge the Tories but she certainly seems to be the one who’s most grrounded in reality and she should be listened too

People are not going to vote for full-blooded socialism so perhaps get labour back sufficiently centre-ground to be able to stop this happening.

Totally agree. But labour have never offered full blooded socialism (and neither should they because it’s an outdated bankrupt ideology), instead they’ve offered common sense regulated free market capitalism. If that’s too ‘left’ for people then we’re screwed, because even if labour had won, their policies were only a step in the right direction to solving problems like climate change, resource depletion and inequality. If we’re to avoid disaster, then policies which are much more radical and ambitious than labour’s are required. Watering down the existing policies may get them into power, but it wont prevent the disaster you want to avoid.

Socialism has many forms, but as I’ve learned in the last few months the two we’re most familiar with the UK are Social Democrats (Blair, Brown, Starmer) and Democratic Socialists (Kinnock, Corbyn, Long-Bailey) I had to check 3 times I hadn’t typed the same thing twice, one faction is ‘New Labour’ one is ‘Normal/Old Labour’ depending on which is more palatable for you. There’s loads of cross-over but each faction as been fighting the other within the Labour party for years, the Unions consist of a 3rd faction, but they’re also rarely aligned with each other or either side of the party.

A lot of the press, and frankly a lot of Labour voters with a bit of an axe to grind would like to make you think that only the DSs are Socalists, they’re the only ones on the left and all the others are Red Tories, in fact they hate the SDs more than the Tories.

RLB now has the required number of backers; last count I saw had her on 26 but, of those, 15 were newly-minted in December.
That suggests she doesn’t (yet) have much support from established MPs – let’s hope that doesn’t change.
I’m hoping that another of the big unions comes out in support of Starmer.

Yet there seems to be a totally delusional and arrogant attitude within the labour party that they are right about everything, and therefore at some point a majority of the population will realise this.

I believe they are more right than most of the other parties, if right is a fairer and more equal society that actually cares about all the people in the society.
The population are clearly never going to realise or agree with it and a sensible person would realise that and either change the approach (to get into power) and bring it in slowly by stealth once in power

Yet there seems to be a totally delusional and arrogant attitude within the labour party that they are right about everything, and therefore at some point a majority of the population will realise this. So they don’t need to change anything, just carry on being right (and righteous) and they’ll get there chance next time around when the electorate become more enlightened and realise whats good for them

FWIW I don’t disagree with that, with 10/10 comments it’s rather obvious however it’s not just the existing power structure that needs to change. Maybe if people started engaging with folk from the position of reasonable adults we could start making progress. A sensible dialogue rather than mud slinging as it should be pretty obvious by now there are no winners.

To that end I have edited out my original comment.

Shame Lewis is out. Of those running, only he and Nandy have put forward honest assessments as regards what needs to change in the party (beyond the face at the top).

Why couldn’t RLB just come up with some back to the 70s stuff, then it would be easy to vote against her. If I’ve understood her correctly, and she’s sincere, then this is a far cry from the old fashioned top-down paternalism of McCuskey and co. Going to be a tricky vote…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/16/labour-must-stir-up-democratic-revolution-to-win-power-says-long-bailey

Five years of Boris Johnson…
… and Brexit on the way. With a new Conservative government taking office, the Guardian’s independent, measured, authoritative reporting has never been so vital.

I wonder who will replace Corbyn at the top of their clickbait league?