Home Forums Chat Forum My dear old things, it's STW TMS!

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  • My dear old things, it's STW TMS!
  • ransos
    Free Member

    We had them on the ropes through positive cricket, and have given it away with rank stupidity.

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    What next?

    Chuck the new ball to Duckett in the interests of being daring?

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    What price Bairstow now having a mare behind the stumps due to the extra pressure we’ve invited on ourselves?

    dazh
    Full Member

    Look on the brightside, if we bowl them out for around 300 then it’s going to be the mother of all run chases. Just think how entertaining that will be. 😀

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    Oh look. Khawaja just played out a maiden with no worries, assessing the pitch, the overheads and the bowler. GET ON WITH IT, WE ARE NOT ENTERTAINED.

    dander
    Full Member

    Well that was an inept morning, although Starc bowled well. Can’t help but think the England players have read some of the criticism of the approach and got caught (!) between a rock and a hard place.

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    And the new ball is zipping around a little bit, but Aus are effectively nearly 100-0. When they shouldn’t be.

    We were 180-1.

    FFS.

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    Warner out, but it is too little too late.

    The opening partnership between Khawaja and Warner was a great example of refusing to hand back the initiative having been gifted it by the oppo.

    A.k.a. smart test match cricket.

    🤦‍♂️

    joelowden
    Full Member

    …. exactly!!

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    Just listening to Justin Langer and I can see two things.

    1) He’s absolutely bob-on in his analysis.

    2) I can see how he would start to grate on the Aussie players after a while.

    🙂

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    We just don’t have the bowling attack to force the issue and provide momentum. How much slower are Broad and Jimmy?

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    Broad and Anderson are 7-8mph slower. That’s about the magic ‘yard’ and a bit. That makes movement probably about 15-20% less dangerous.

    Lolz at some of the commentators saying that nothing much was going on (in comparison).

    Looked at objectively, Australia are retaining the Ashes. Just because there isn’t a cricketing three ring circus going on, it doesn’t mean nothing is happening.

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    We just don’t have the bowling attack to force the issue and provide momentum.

    As a Bazball concept I would have much preferred them to pick Wood as a strike bowler, not bat like millionaires.

    dander
    Full Member

    How could they pick Wood – he’s not fit. They wanted to, according to Stokes, but he wasn’t ready.

    Reckon this is Jimmy’s last series? Time finally catching up with him.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    That 7-8mph is huge in real terms. If you look at the range from slow spin to absolute express, that’s around 50mph up to 95mph, nothing really worth consideration exists outside that range. So while the difference between say 80 and 90mph is 10% ish absolute terms, as a % of the operating range that’s 10/45 = 20% faster.

    OK, I’ve defended Bazball* and will continue to, but there has to be a limit, and it has got passed today for me even. Chef was interesting on R4 last night, because of the amount of short form cricket and the need to score off every delivery, you don’t get sustained short pitched bowling and if you do get short balls, then it’s kitchen sink time. So many don’t have the technique or experience of simply resisting. He also said – which was interesting for a prolific opener – that he couldn’t duck or weave to save his life, the few times he tried he got into terrible problems. So he had to play the short ball but became adept at the soft hook or pull, as he called it ‘tapping the ball on the head’ and into the ground for 1’s and 2’s. It might take time for Brook and others to work out their short ball game and we shouldn’t immediately dismiss as brainless. It’s a tough testing ground to be trying to work that out on the fly.

    * unless Test cricket becomes more entertaining, it won’t matter who wins or loses because the game will cease to exist apart from a few niche series. It’s already dying on its arse outside ENG/AUS/IND with other countries questioning whether they can afford to stage test matches over 5 days when no-one’s interested in watching someone tap it around for 3 singles an over. Bazball V1.0 might be too far over but old **** like me that have had 45 years growing to appreciate the subtleties of the forward defensive push and the off stump leave can’t fill stadiums on our own any longer.

    We might be entertained, but we are NOT amused.

    moimoifan
    Free Member

    OK, I’ve defended Bazball* and will continue to, but there has to be a limit, and it has got passed today for me even.

    This is basically it for me too, perhaps with a slightly lower threshold.

    Brook’s dismissal would have induced a telling off from the coach in U11 cricket.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    Probably. But that’s also the team’s philosophy along with the aggression. If he’s going to properly make it as a test cricketer then he’ll know that and so the coach doesn’t need to say anything, and create more fear and pressure. What’s after the telling off – do that again and you will be dropped? That doesn’t create the conditions for expression this team thrives on, and so there will be times where the judgement goes awry.

    But also where I say don’t be too harsh is that he didn’t have a different tactic against the bouncer barrage. Easy to say just duck for a bit and they’ll get bored again, as per above Cook got 12.5K test runs and by his own admission couldn’t have done that either. OK, Cook had an alternative to hitting it for 6 or die trying…… but I have little doubt that Brook, with the support of the coaches, will already be thinking about what alternatives he might develop. He needs to, because he’ll be getting a few more over the next few days and weeks.

    The approach is in its infancy, and so far hasn’t really been tested, 11/13 win rate before last week (and last week was a gnat’s whisker away from 12/14). I think refinement will follow – or maybe it won’t and they’ll decide (guesstimate) a 65% win rate is good enough in the context of being very attractive for all but the fuddy-duddy wenwees to pay their hard earned cash to see.

    Bear
    Free Member

    There’s playing positively and there’s clueless….

    clueless of how to play the short ball and clueless of reading the situation.

    Bear
    Free Member

    Oh  and possibly Stokes last series as his knee looks done, probably Anderson too and if stokes goes, Broad might follow and maybe even Root

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    clueless of how to play the short ball and clueless of reading the situation.

    I don’t agree completely. The first, maybe. Or at least, finding out in short time that what has worked before isn’t working now. Those that simply say to duck, as if you can suddenly learn that in the middle of an over – again, I’ll point at Chef who scored all those runs and by his own words, still couldn’t duck.

    “Reading the situation” I suspect acutely aware of the situation, four down in short order and a ball coming towards your head or ribs at 90mph focuses the mind fantastically. What do I do right here and now, what tools do can I call upon in the next 0.3 seconds?

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    Thought exercise, turn it the other way.

    It’s the evening of the fourth day and it’s ragging square. They’ve got four men around the bat, and your well tried and tested defensive technique is failing you, you’ve survived two close lbw shouts and so far the bat-pad edges haven’t gone to hand.

    To have the fielders around the bat there’s a gap at backward point and third man. If you reverse sweep for a few overs they’ll have to move some fielders out to cover it. But you’ve never played that shot in anger, never practised it seriously, and don’t know how it’ll turn out.

    So suddenly mid game you switch to reverse sweeping, top edge it and get caught by slip running back.

    How would you describe that decision and outcome?

    And that’s without the fear of being seriously injured or even worse by suddenly ‘learning to duck’ and then finding you’re not very good at it?

    joelowden
    Full Member

    There’s always the Brian Close approach. ..

    pk13
    Full Member

    Bowlers looked miffed last night even by broads standards of huffing and puffing. I wonder what affect it’s having on them seeing the batting team just shrug and smile when getting out? A slightly flippant remark I grant you but both jimmy and Stuart are charged players and will be miffed.

    Are we hoping for a draw with England needing 5 an over if aus declare early. 2 days of rain might help I guess

    roverpig
    Full Member

    What always seems to be missing from discussions like this is the huge impact that luck has in sport. Cummings decided to take on Root in the last test, knocked a few over the boundary and is a hero. On another day he mis-times one of those and England go 1-0 up.

    We’ve all cheered as someone goes to their century with a boundary, but Duckett is an idiot for trying.

    I do think that they should have played a bit safer when the Aussies tried the bouncer tactic as they could only do it for a few overs, but if we’d taken them on and started knocking it out of the park I’d have been delighted.  There have been lots of occasions over the past year where I’ve thought “is that wise” but it’s great when it comes off so I think I’d rather they carried on trying.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    another one to Bairstow…. someone said before he looks heavy, and there was just no foot movement and then going for a spectacular one handed dive. Fast feet and that would have dropped in his lap.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Seems like the ozzies have drank the cool aid? This could be sizing up to a spectacular Sunday… 😳

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    What’s the point in being a sitting duck, getting peppered, only to then fend one to short leg because you don’t have the technique to play it.

    Brainless cricket by Head. They’ve had England on the ropes and are giving their advantage away through sheer stupidity.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    How’s this not taking on the bouncer tactic working then? Carey the latest, getting peppered for 21 off 73 balls only to then pop one up to short leg.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    and another. Why don’t they just duck it for 10 overs until England get bored and go back to playing normally?

    ***

    Seriously, I know my posts are being a PITA. But expecting a batsman without that skill in their locker to suddenly develop it mid game as if it was a choice – it doesn’t happen. Sure, they’ll be working on counters but that is done with coaching and in the nets, not on the fly.

    1
    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Honestly, why risk Lyon injuring himself even further for a handful of runs?

    1
    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    I know. And shit captaincy from Cummins, he could declare and save Lyon from himself.

    dander
    Full Member

    They’re scared of bazball. England will cruise this by seven wickets.

    ransos
    Free Member

    They’ve had England on the ropes and are giving their advantage away through sheer stupidity.

    England are going to lose the ashes at the earliest opportunity.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    This is a tough session, with the ball swinging at that pace. Crawley will consider himself unlucky, Pope got a belter!

    Bear
    Free Member

    “Reading the situation” I suspect acutely aware of the situation, four down in short order and a ball coming towards your head or ribs at 90mph focuses the mind fantastically. What do I do right here and now, what tools do can I call upon in the next 0.3 seconds?”

    The situation was different to the Aussies in their second innings.

    Lyon had just limped off with a game if not series ending looking injury, we were 180 for 1, their fast bowlers were going to have to bowl a lot of overs. We had the chance to put a serious amount of overs in their legs whilst building a score. Bowling short continually is hard work and requires a lot of effort, more so than bowling a good length. Pope got inside it and was trying to hit it up instead of down, Brook got into a position, the bowler followed him, simply drop your gloves and let it go. Duckett had a Lords hundred for the taking, they don’t come around very often, get it done, re-assess. Yes they are good enough to do that. The bowlers could bowl another 20 or 30 overs of that and we would still score probably 60 – 80 runs being more selective. Get closer to their total before being more aggressive. Read the situation.

    As for not having technique, these guys are professional cricketers, they practice (or should do!) and practice for different situations. They should have a technique to play the short ball which involves knowing which one to play, which to leave and how they can score of it if they need to. As you said Cook didn’t really leave it but he tended to get inside it and hit it down, he would score at 3 an over against that tactic on his own! Maybe the players don’t play enough of it with the lack of county cricket and genuine fast bowlers that used to be at every county.

    Bear
    Free Member

    As I write this Brook has missed a straight ball…….

    If you can’t keep a straight one out, you’re not going to score many against a good attack like the Aussies.

    Root got a good one.

    ransos
    Free Member

    We haven’t been stuffed at home since 2001.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    As for not having technique, these guys are professional cricketers, they practice (or should do!) and practice for different situations.

    I agree, but as I said yesterday and again this morning you don’t tend to invent new methods on the hoof, you stick with what got you where you are. What will be telling will be how much / quickly players like Brook adapt

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    Oh, and Brook’s was much better than “a straight one”

    pk13
    Full Member

    Playing Lyon was just not on they need to think of his future fitness outside the game.

    I can see a white wash with the ashes now.

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