MPs and that pay rise….

As is 10% might sound outrageous, and it is, but it doesn’t parry up with even VP’s in large organisations.

But a typical back bench MP isn’t doing a job equivalent to a VP in a large organisation.

Guess the profession:

* Pay point 1 £21,684
* Pay point 2 £23,401
* Pay point 3 £25,252
* Pay point 4 £27,252
* Pay point 5 £29,409
* Pay point 6 £31,736
* Pay point 7 £34,382
* Pay point 8 £35,628
* Pay point 9 £37,008

These numbers are way too low

I work in an established and reasonably successful architect’s practice, and I can confirm that those numbers are not too low.
Fully qualified architects are paid a good chunk less than half of the MP salaries, and company directors are still some way below the MPs number too.

£33k average is probably about right for an average, including regional variations in salaries which are not insignificant.

I’m curious as to what industry?

Mikes a teacher IIRC.
[/quote]
Yes, on ~50% of an MP’s salary.[/quote]

OK, how much does a head teacher earn? Staff of what maybe 100-200, budget of a few million.

MPs collectively manage a budget of 750 billion and responsible for 65 million people….

I think they’re very much underpaid.

Guess the profession:

* Pay point 1 £21,684
* Pay point 2 £23,401
* Pay point 3 £25,252
* Pay point 4 £27,252
* Pay point 5 £29,409
* Pay point 6 £31,736
* Pay point 7 £34,382
* Pay point 8 £35,628
* Pay point 9 £37,008

“pay point” = public sector, innit. And we all know who’s to blame for EVERYTHING, don’t we?

As is 10% might sound outrageous, and it is, but it doesn’t parry up with even VP’s in large organisations.

Or even small ones, we have 85 employees and all our management team earn way more than an MP and the CEO earns 2x the PM’s salary.

miketually – Member
As is 10% might sound outrageous, and it is, but it doesn’t parry up with even VP’s in large organisations.
But a typical back bench MP isn’t doing a job equivalent to a VP in a large organisation.

An neither was a manager or exec in public sector until recently, AND thier job security was much higher. You laughed at my prior post Miketually, but its actually true in a lot – not all – of cases. Local government is very crap at telling people how well they are doing or good they are performing, yet bad news spreads very quickly. Some very good innovation and efficiency has risen to the top during this austerity period, that you might not have seen otherwise.

OK, how much does a head teacher earn? Staff of what maybe 100-200, budget of a few million.

That varies by school size, but the average primary head is on £52,000 and average secondary head earned £73,000 (according to https://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6039350).

MPs collectively manage a budget of 750 billion and responsible for 65 million people….

Backbench MPs walk through the lobby that they’re told to by their whip, and turn up to some photo opportunities. The MPs who are actually in charge of anything get paid more.

I think they’re very much underpaid.

An interesting sentence from the above article: “Yet while Mr Gove may only receive an MP’s salary, he more than doubled his income last year through his journalism and his appearances on Newsnight Review.”

As is 10% might sound outrageous, and it is, but it doesn’t parry up with even VP’s in large organisations.

Or even small ones, we have 85 employees and all our management team earn way more than an MP and the CEO earns 2x the PM’s salary.[/quote]

Taking into account expenses, perks and additional income streams?

In what industry?

public sector, innit. And we all know who’s to blame for EVERYTHING, don’t we?

True; I spent the nineties and noughties snorting coke, quaffing champers and lending cash to people who couldn’t afford it.

My Sisters a Headmistress in a Fenland Comp. It’s kinda hard work for her and whilst I appreciate she works hard, she does, her salary of circa £70k does seem reasonable considering all the holidays she gets..

I await the flame for bringing up the holidays , but in reality it’s true.

Some very good innovation and efficiency has risen to the top during this austerity period, that you might not have seen otherwise.

In what sector do you work?

I await the flame for bringing up the holidays , but in reality it’s true.

How do they compare to MPs’ holidays?

mikeactually you seem determined to focus on the point that MP additional income seems to arrive free, that the don’t do any work for it. Did someone else write Gove’s journalism? Did he have a stand in on TV – and newsnight eh – do you work 10-11pm (or whatever late night time its on?)

If I was willing to put in more effort than I do and work for a second income in the interest of cash generation, I might. But more likely, I’m not going to.

miketually – Member
Some very good innovation and efficiency has risen to the top during this austerity period, that you might not have seen otherwise.
In what sector do you work?

Public sector. Working with senior managers to achieve just that, first hand. So I see it and the issues causes and how they are addressed every single day, first hand.

mikeactually you seem determined to focus on the point that MP additional income seems to arrive free, that the don’t do any work for it. Did someone else write Gove’s journalism? Did he have a stand in on TV – and newsnight eh – do you work 10-11pm (or whatever late night time its on?)

If I was willing to put in more effort than I do and work for a second income in the interest of cash generation, I might. But more likely, I’m not going to.

It’s more the fact that MPs seem to have an awful lot of time to spend writing books, newspaper articles, advising companies, etc. Perhaps being an MP isn’t a full time job, and the pay should reflect this?

Michael Gove spoke in three Parliamentary debates last year. How many Newsnight Review appearances?

Public sector. Working with senior managers to achieve just that, first hand. So I see it and the issues causes and how they are addressed every single day, first hand.

An axe swinger?

Taking into account expenses, perks and additional income streams?

In what industry?

Industry is Telecoms.

Additional income streams are of course optional and earned by hard work. E.g. a teacher could spend their very long summer holiday writing best selling biographies or touring the US lecture circuit and also earn additional income. As could I, but as I’m paid enough for my 9-5 I just potter about in the garden and go to the gym.

Have you thought about offering your services to Newsnight review?

Additional income streams are of course optional and earned by hard work. E.g. a teacher could spend their very long summer holiday writing best selling biographies or touring the US lecture circuit and also earn additional income. As could I, but as I’m paid enough for my 9-5 I just potter about in the garden and go to the gym.

I spend mine recovering.

I spend mine recovering.

Have you thought about becoming an MP?

You also seem to be doing something wrong, all the teachers I know spend 6 weeks travelling all over the world having one hell of a time in the summer.

sack the lot of them, turn it into something more like jury service, you get called up for a year, payed a decent wage, no party leaders, no party, just one vote on every issue. i bet most people would be able to do a better job than has been done in the past 50 years…

Have you thought about offering your services to Newsnight review?

That little perk seems to be available only to people in certain careers. Another perk of the job, perhaps?

Have you thought about becoming an MP?

Councillor, yes. But that doesn’t bring the same media profile.

You also seem to be doing something wrong, all the teachers I know spend 6 weeks travelling all over the world having one hell of a time in the summer.

I must be. We’re having a week in Scotland. I need to sell a few more novels, and take some cash back handers.

How many Newsnight Review appearances?

Don’t know but he didn’t get paid for any, the only other income* he had were royalties from books he published in the past of a few hundred quid.

When there was a commission a few years ago, it was decided that MPs salaries should be similar to those of a head teacher of a secondary school so they are due a rise to £73,000 based on your figures. Happily this is what IPSO has recommended.

EDIT: Other than ministerial salary.

No Mikeactually, tidying up after.

You’ve made it apparent you choose to be disgruntled and/or envious yet decide not to change your own circumstances. Probably best to leave it there. Your career, your choice. Life is unfair also just deal with it and move on.

the electorate can fully trust in parliment to fairly self regulate. 😆

Commons Speaker Mr Bercow has appointed the former Conservative MP for Hexham Peter Atkinson to sit on the panel which will appoint the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority board.

Mr Atkinson, who stepped down at the last election, was one of a group of MPs who tried to block the publication of expenses claims that uncovered the scandal which heaped shame on Parliament three years ago.

You’ve made it apparent you choose to be disgruntled and/or envious yet decide not to change your own circumstances. Probably best to leave it there. Your career, your choice. Life is unfair also just deal with it and move on.

Harsh, but fair.

So, if we are keeping things in line with headmasters.

Can we have an OFSTED type report for MP’s and their constituencies as well?

good for the goose and all that.

Can we have an OFSTED type report for MP’s and their constituencies as well?

Isn’t that what elections are for?

I agree ^^ with Teachers could do other things with their time too..

Back to my Sis, she offers out her services as a Private Tutor for Applied Maths to the underprivileged/hard to teach kids in the Cambs area. She works 2 w/e’s out of 4 and 1 week in her half term, 3 weeks in her summer holidays.. She gets paid £750pd by the LA for this.
To be fair to her she deserves every penny, but clearly not all Teachers are/want to/able to do this otherwise they would.

Therefore my Sis has a great time when she is on holiday and yes she often goes off around the world.

To counter that I know someone who teaches nursery school kids, has done for the last 20 years and just been made redundant, she was on shite pay, has now a shite redundancy package too.. So now what does she do? Volunteers in another local school where they are hard pushed to employ any more teachers.

I also know an Ambulance Rapid Response “doctor” who spends, get this her words, 70% of her time sitting either in her estate car in a layby near the A1 Lincoln area or at home waiting to be called out. Argue the toss out of that one but she too has been doing this job for the last 10 years and despite working odd shifts occasionally she loves doing “bugger all and getting paid for it” Her words.

Can we have an OFSTED type report for MP’s and their constituencies as well?

Isn’t that what elections are for?

er, no , that is just some sort of (un)reality TV event AFAIK

OFSTED

Every week, we carry out hundreds of inspections and regulatory visits throughout England and publish the results online. We help providers that are not yet of good standard to improve, monitor their progress and share with them the best practice we find.

Our goal is to achieve excellence in education government and skills for learners of all ages, and in the care of children and young people. taxpayers and everyone else who has a right to be fairly represented.

You’ve made it apparent you choose to be disgruntled and/or envious yet decide not to change your own circumstances. Probably best to leave it there. Your career, your choice. Life is unfair also just deal with it and move on.

Not at all.

It’s pretty evident that MP pay increases are a PR disaster. And, given that the present focus of the current administration on public sector austerity, it seems perfectly reasonable for employees in that sector to question the value for money of these increases (not least because it was MPs who corruptly abused their own expenses system and it was MPs who are – around 50%* – at fault for for the recent parlous state of the economy).

And, because part of the job description of an MP is to tell the public what’s best for them, it’s incumbent on them to be prepared to be challenged by those whom they are asking to take the greatest burden of “economic correction”.

*Since it’s pretty standard for an incumbent administration to throw all blame for past failings at those who were in government when the economy collapsed.

ourmaninthenorth has nailed it. I have no problem with MP’s pay, I have no problem with them getting a pay rise. what I do have a problem with is them sacking millions of public sector workers and freezing the pay of others whilst raiding their pensions. Meanwhile I cant find any good science teachers to replace those I have lost to private education or moving away from the area to a place they an afford to buy a house.

what I do have a problem with is them sacking millions of public sector workers and freezing the pay of others whilst raiding their pensions.

Sadly 36.9% of the voting electorate disagree with you and chose more austerity as the cure to all our ills!

footfaps nailed it!

the 63.1% majority of those that actualy bothered to vote disagree 😉

@mike we need to see the whole picture for that pay point table and factor in pension benefits. In many jobs those are worth nearly 50% of salary at market rates.

@footflaps austerity is the least bad option, it’s not a cure for all ills I don’t think anyone has said that it was.

In most jobs you are out if you cannot do it right.

edit: well not strictly true, you will find plenty of fast talkers passing the blame in most walks of life..

I also know an Ambulance Rapid Response “doctor” who spends, get this her words, 70% of her time sitting either in her estate car in a layby near the A1 Lincoln area or at home waiting to be called out. Argue the toss out of that one but she too has been doing this job for the last 10 years and despite working odd shifts occasionally she loves doing “bugger all and getting paid for it” Her words.

Can you find out which service that is I might transfer there.

@mike we need to see the whole picture for that pay point table and factor in pension benefits. In many jobs those are worth nearly 50% of salary at market rates.

All that is publically available information for teaching: currently, the employer pays 14.1% and the employee pays between 6.4% and 12.4% depending upon salary (I pay 9.5%). Average salary pension, accruing 1/80 of average salary per year service. Retire with full benefits at 68.

Does that add enough to attract the best and brightest into teaching?[/url]

the employer pays 14.1% and the employee pays between 6.4% and 12.4% depending upon salary (I pay 9.5%). Average salary pension, accruing 1/80 of average salary per year service. Retire with full benefits at 68.

Its a shitload more than I get in my high technology private US.org working in London, plus your annual leave is massively more than mine.