Mountain biking groups that charge a fee

If we started to charge a fee now, THT would just wither and die. It will carry on as it is.

PP, why is that so? To all intents and purposes the THT sound like a club, just free of charge.

Personally I pay £12 per annum for a club, most of the "club" rides I go on are Thursday night rides and a handful of Sunday rides (the rest of time it an impromptu ride elsewhere).

I'm not really what sure I get for my £12 as it's bu$$er all in the great scheme of things. I'm not too fussed about knowing TBH.

I guess your point is that some people will feel aggrieved at having to part with money whilst others are not too bothered with parting with a few quid?

EDIT: With the membership we get 10% discount for most of the local bike shops and 20% at Cotswolds, so the membership pays for it self within a few weeks/months.

I dont see the problem, as long as your membership fee gives you something back… be it a discount at LBS, transport once in a while, decent away trips or just access to fun & more rides (knowledge of places etc) does £20 really matter? same with any club you can be involved or not as much as you want!

you've ridden with us PP. The only serious we do is serious fun :o)

Indeed, and somewhere in this thread I said I'd join if I lived anywhere near you. I used the word 'generally' too 🙂
The only other exception I can think of is the Cheesy Riders in Bristol. And AFAIK they're free too….

PP, why is that so? To all intents and purposes the THT sound like a club, just free of charge.

THT was formed mainly from people not wanting to join the local club, myself included. That's the core of it, the reason THT exits and it works. It's been discussed and discounted many times,
🙂

Why don't you want to join a club?

I don't understand that sentiment. It commits you to nothing, just gives you more options, easier to arrange lifts if you need them, people to show you new rides, etc

Don't tell me it's because you have to pay for it, because it's such a small sum and is usually negated by the discounts that come with it.

Yes its 'only' 20quid. For anyone else its just something else that needs paying for ontop of bills…. Ontop of it supposed to be a hobby. Paying football subs? You have to play somewhere and usually that includes a coach.

The payers- would you be happy paying for access to natural singletrack in the future? 😉

Cadging a lift isnt free- you normally have to repay the compliment or give something for fuel. Im hoping you lifters do do this? 😉

The only time I'd join a formlised club would be if I was single (for girls) but then again, if I was single I'd rather pay match.com etc.

Its great meeting new people but I'd rather do this without a cost in a formal club structure with hierachy and base rules. I;d rather just ride in a loose-group.

Come the weekend Im normally ready to keel over with stress hence I like the idea of getting out there wherever without 'being ontime'

Why don't you want to join a club?

That's not what I said. You're reading things I haven't written.

THT was formed mainly from people not wanting to join the local club (And I don't want to expand on that because I have nothing against them other than a difference of opinion and I'd imagine they have members reading this)

But in general I find 'clubs' a bit twee and anal. Sorry. I have tried a few.
THT is just a group of mates that needed a forum to keep track of what they were organising between them. A single thread on Bikemagic got too muddled. Other people have come along through various routes and added to the group in different ways. Ask anyone on a ride if it's a club, and you'll usually get "Errr no, not reaaaaly" as an answer. 🙂

THT was formed mainly from people not wanting to join the local club, myself included

What is quite funny is that my local club, we have discussed organising club shirts but overwhelming opinion is that this would be too organised and we would look too much like a "club", especially when venturing on cheeky off-piste routes in the New Forest.

Whilst you THT trollers all have laid-back-group-not-a-club standard shirts (which look quite good IMHO)!

Club vs. laid back group of riders… In the eye of beholder me thinks and what like minded people are looking to get out of riding with other folks. That's my conclusion anyways!

But in general I find 'clubs' a bit twee and anal.

Bog Trotters program:
Thu 24 Sep: knitting circle (also feat. crochet)
Fri 25 Sep: bum bandit big bonk – you know you want to!
Sat 26 Sep: footpath exploration day
Sun 27 Sep: High Street classic (handbags compulsory)
etc

😀

😉

The other problem, I suspect, is that mountainbikers tend to flit rather in how they ride and what they're into. All roadies basically do the same thing, although sometimes faster and without so much cake. A mountain bike club must tend to have breakaway factions, splitters, schisms and free-ride-lite cliques, whereas most road clubs will have been doing roughly the same thing every Sunday morning for decades.

footpath exploration day

🙄

whereas most road clubs will have been doing roughly the same thing every Sunday morning for decades.

You mean 89yr old Men who can ride for 100miles and wipe the floor with younger men every Sunday morning? 😆

I'm a very happy member of the Manchester Mountainbikers. Great bunch of people, made some good friends out of it, had some great weekends away. Was brilliant at Sleepless with 30-40 of us all in different teams, bumping into each other out on the course, great motivation to keep going (I was in a pair). Not encountered any club politics at all, but have been on some amazing rides around areas I wouldn't have been without them. Taught me how to fix my bike and give me regular advice on it. None of my 'lifelong' mates ride so it's good to ride with others.

Don't ride with them every weekend, some weekends I'll go off and do my own thing, but it's nice to look on the web and have a selection of rides to choose from.

The £20 fee doesn't even enter into it for me. I've pissed £20 up the wall this evening in 2 rounds of drinks at a meeting. If it means that if I come flying down a descent and I hit a walker it's all covered, that's great.

antigee – interesting post from BMC guidelines, not seen that before. Nice one

I agree with Mr Poddy!

We live in an over-regulated country, I don't want to be told I must wear club kit (I hate jerseys), don't want to be told what to do either. Prefer to be answerable/responsible to myself.

I've done the club thing from my running days, been there, done that, don't want to go there again. I'm not knocking clubs, just don't see the need for them these days.

In any case, life is much more fun meeting random folk from a certain forum 😉

DIdn;t Richpips cancel an event planned on the forum after legal advice about responsibilities?

he can probaby comment for himself but…..

Richpips tried to "not" organise an event

the problem was that the idea was too popular and it couldn't be "organised" without killing the idea

it was still brilliance, but he put it up on the net….Gumball anyone?

We are a BC club similar to the Hit The North team for exactly the same reasons. There are only 6 of us at the moment and all focused on organising the race series. Any social rides are separate.

I don't want to be told I must wear club kit (I hate jerseys), don't want to be told what to do either

then don't pick a bossy club :o) Some of us wear club shirts out of pride but nobody makes us, and we do the rides we fancy (or in my case, every one I can get due to chronic addiction)

Some non-clubs are more organised and have a more autocratic style than clubs. Some non-clubs also have "rules" about not being a club or wearing shirts etc – usually run by anarchists who pay income taxes, vote, counciltax, have good jobs and organise stuff and subsidise stuff.

organised rides with good routes, trips where you're not booking up Alps and risking 1500 euros etc that all your mates can make it and the insurance aspects for bombing down trails etc, plus some (or quite a lot) of free club wine at christmas meal – ours is £25 – exhorbitant!!!

I've been reading this for a couple of days now and I just don't get it?
I am also a member of MMB and for ME it works, The membership fee pays for itself after a trip to the LBS to get the discounts, thats the biggest bonus in my eye's.
Some people on hear seem to think that if your a member of a club then your not allowed to ride without them or to ride on your own and you have to buy and ware a club jersey, this simply isn't the case. Even if you are on an organized ride whats to stop you taking a different trail if you want? Nothing! We're not in the army you know, we are allowed to do our own thing.
Also some have mentioned a problem with hierachy. Well I can asure you there is nobody at the club that would try and pull rank. Let's face it we are all mountain bikers and enjoy arseing around on our bikes whatever the dicipline.
So for me it works, however i understand that its not for everyone and i totally respect that, there was a time when a club wouldn't have been best for me. But there is one thing I wouldn't do and thats bitch about someones club on a forum, especially when you have never met anyone from it. whats the point? nobody has put a gun to your head. Just don't join, Easy!

I'm also a member of the Manchester Mountain Bikers and it's been the best £20 I've spent all year. I've actually saved myself a hell of a lot more than £20 based on advice and help I've had from from the club. The club has negotiated discounts with certain cycle stores that apply to members and they have also invested membership money on club lights to loan to members who can't afford they type of money required to experience a good night ride.
The club is extremely active, take a look at the calender on the website to see how often and how varied the rides are. There is always something on whenever you get some spare time and fancy getting out. The rides are very well organised, you just turn up and don't have to worry about routes etc and they ride as slow as the last rider. Everything is taken care of and you feel looked after.

I rode Sleepless with the club and I'm having a riding weekend in Scotland next month too. I've made a lot of new friends and as mentioned earlier saved so much money on advice and riding tips. The club also runs training and improver rides too, and considering how much riding centres charge for this, I'm more than happy with what I've got out of my membership dues.

I don't want to be told I must wear club kit (I hate jerseys)

Did we not sell you a Trolls jersey this year CG? 😉

Although they are optional, well, currently they are……

EDIT
WUN-UNDRED!

ALthough they are optional, well, currently they are……

no one will mind if you ride topless :o)

Have you got a link to the MMB site? Not being lazy, my company internet won't let me search for it.

Oh yes they will Simon!
😯

i get BC license, insurance, heavily discounted bike spares and race entries…. for a tenner! oh, and not forgetting the discounted club tickets and free drinks. Being a student, i can't buy expensive bikes but i can atleast buy many many drinks!

Sorry, here's the link: http://www.meetup.com/Manchester-Mountain-Bikers/

Ta.

My work computer blocks it as it thinks you are a dating agency! Is that also included in the £20?

it's not a charge, it's a requested donation. Most seem to be happy to contribute

Indeed,as was I after Mr Barnes 'muugged' me for £2 in the pub after last nights ride at Clapham. 😉
It was worth it just for having rode a piece of singletrack that I hadn't been down before!

I don't know why I bother really as the club is too stingy to spend any of the cash :o)

this thread has prompted me to consider joining MMB again- i was previously registered on the site but never came on any group rides and my 'membership' lapsed once the charge was introduced, but i'm thinking i need to meet/ride with more local riders and this would appear to be the best way of doing so…

Harry_the_Spider – we use meetup.com which is a social networking site which is why you will be blocked.

another very happy MMB member here. it's quite interesting that some of the people that enjoy only riding by themselves or with their small, regular group of mates come on here and slag the club/clubs in general off. MMB was all started by people who didn't much enjoy that – some people want to meet new people to ride with. the amount of people i have chatted with in the club who feel the same is enormous.

it was free to join at first but when numbers grew the decision was taken to cover for liability. £20 was charged because the idea was to get indvidual liability insurance through ctc for each member but it turned out that the ctc are crap and it would have taken a considerable amount of time & effort for someone to manage membership. we do now have leader liability insurance. this means that there is a bit of money left over in the club fund. it doesn't belong to anyone and if someone has an idea on how to spend the money it is put to the vote. as mentioned we've recently ordered club lights and are looking in to picking up helmet camera's and stuff like that. i imagine over the next year or so we will have marquee's etc.

as for the jersey's, i too was a bit skeptical about having a club jersey. but it turns out that it's way cooler than the majority of shirts available in the shops. it was designed by one of the members.

Uplink/all
MMBs insurance is much more there for the scenario where someone comes after one of us (ride leader or committee member) for a serious claim. I hate the litigation culture as much as the rest of you but that doesn't make it go away.

Compensation lawyers actively target hospital casualty departments now. My current appointments card has an advert from one of them on the back of it touting for "no win no fee" business. (Accident happened on my ride – I did wonder if I could sue myself?)

WRT what your solicitor told you, there are very few people in this world who have "nothing to lose"….. Your house, your pension, (your sanity?) It's a highly unlikely scenario but not impossible. When you start talking about big bucks rather than 3grand, a compensation lawyer is not going to flinch at taking you down the path of bankruptcy if they can get their commission.

If you had a partner/son/daughter who ended up paralysed as a result of a bike accident, from a financial point of view, you may have no alternative but to claim against eg a bike club/ride leader/friend of your sons.

For those of you thinking this is all a bit over the top…remember the succesful claim over the bouncy castle a couple of years ago?? (This claim for £1million was initially successful and then lost at appeal), or the claim against the bike mfr when a wheel "spontaneously collapsed" a few years ago…..or the handlebar failure.

CTC charge £75 to cover MMB organisers against a third party claim. Without this insurance, the people who lead rides for the club and the people who run it are vulnerable. It's a no-brainer.

As far as paid Clubs go – well that's just a personal thing innit.
Bogtrotters and MMB are both top people to ride with in my experience.

and for £20 you'd struggle to buy a laminated map + guidebook

ditch_jockey – Member

I wonder if they"re AALA licensed?

As I understand it, and I might be wrong, if you charge for providing mountain biking activities (as opposed to transport/food etc) then you come within the AALA regulations.

Nope
AALA license is required if you're offering activities on a commercial basis to under 18s.
We don't.

Beat you to that one Fluff!

Damn

You're faster than most normal human beans Rocky 🙂

Like someone said above, just because there is some organisational structure in a club doesn't mean that club trips are run on military lines. As a member of the club all that stuff is (or should be anyway) invisible to you so why care? If there are boring meetings being held do you have to go to them?

And I can't really see that £20 is seriously an issue for anyone on here- it's a few beers or a fraction of the petrol for a weekend away.

just because there is some organisational structure in a club doesn't mean that club trips are run on military lines

Exactly
Ours are based on a crossover of aspects of chaos theory, some swarm intelligence and elementary cat herding.

As an aside, I personally find the regimented structure of forums whereby I have to type my replies into a small box with limited fonts doesn't really fit with my freewheeling, rebellious attitude to life. 😉

Mr Poddy – yes, you are correct in that I do have a Trolls freeride style top and it is used to scare dog walkers. I now have a matching (skull and crossbones) bell on the singlespeed 8)

It's not a money thing as a reason for not joining a club. I don't race and have no intention of doing so. I like to pick and choose who and where I ride without feeling obliged to attend certain club events.

I am happy to organise rides on here and don't worry about public liability. My lbs are brilliant, they give me a discount cos I spend so much but I do take them cakes sometimes.

Why should I join a club?

Why should I join a club?

I don't see why you "should"

Why do you ask the question ?

"Why should I join a club? "

because your a number….

ride in a loose group with no rules 😉

Join the SGMTB ultra niche with three members…. it was four but she went to Australia.

because your a number….

strictly speaking as a member of a club you're a fraction