"Modern cars are too powerful for UK roads"

We only know what you told us 007.

Tell us about your car then Jimjam. I’ve never driven a road-legal car that would get near a bike. Edit: in fact I’ve never driven a car that would get near a bike.

honestly I think if retesting was introduced then half the drivers on the road would end up having their licences taken away,

Good.

it’s not practical and would negatively impact on the economy, overload public transport and lead to social unrest.

More people on public transport = more money being spent on public transport = improvements to the infrastructure and cheaper fares. What’s not to like?

Also, I do think we need to stop this nonsense where people get lenient sentences because they need their cars for work.

I don’t actually think that’s the case. If you’re eligible to lose your licence but doing so would be deemed “unnecessary hardship” then you may escape a ban, but you’ll get a hefty increase in the fine instead.

No, I don’t think anybody is having a problem understanding that some people like having fun in cars on public roads.

You know, this keeps cropping up, and I don’t buy it.

If “having fun” equates to “driving like you stole it” then yes, absolutely, the public road is no place to be having that sort of “fun.” However, I fail to see why driving shouldn’t be an enjoyable, pleasurable experience. If I’ve got to drive a few hundred miles, why should I have to do it in a miserable environment where everything I do is an exercise in frustration? What am I gaining by being a martyr?

For a while I had a normally aspirated diesel Fiesta as a company car, and every time I went anywhere in it it was just depressing. Sure, it got me from A to B, but it was a constant battle to keep the thing moving. It bounced around the motorway like a pea in a whistle and heaven forbid you should encounter a slight incline. I’d regularly be doing 70mph on the motorway, the road starts going uphill gently and by the time it’s levelled out again I’m doing 50 with my foot to the boards and downshifting in a desperate attempt to not to go any slower.

How is that in any way preferable to driving a bigger car with more presence and stability, comfy seats, various gadgetry which affords me more concentration on the road (eg, automatic lights, automatic wipers, cruise control) and enough grunt that I can reach 70 on a slip road and maintain the speed limit without having to redline the shite out of it? Where’s the downside to something that frees up my brain for more observation and forward planning because I’m not spending all my energy in battling with the hateful bloody thing just to keep it going in a straight line? Does it make me a better driver when I’ve got a vehicle that I’d rather open a vein than drive anywhere in it?

No, if it’s all the same to you, I’ll have a car that’s fun to drive, where “fun” equates to comfort and pleasure and being able to spend some time improving my driving, thinking about road position, anticipating what other people are doing, and working out what I’m going to do next.

Edukator – Troll
Tell us about your car then Jimjam. I’ve never driven a road-legal car that would get near a bike. Edit: in fact I’ve never driven a car that would get near a bike.

I’ve been scratching my head trying to think of anything like that too – other than exotica.

Cougar – Moderator

I don’t actually think that’s the case. If you’re eligible to lose your licence but doing so would be deemed “unnecessary hardship” then you may escape a ban, but you’ll get a hefty increase in the fine instead.

I’d consider that massively lenient tbh- and almost a case of being able to buy your way out of a ban. And all on top of the fact you have a driver so irresponsible they got into licence-losing territory despite needing their car for work, which is not the person I want to keep on the road really.

I don’t disagree; point I was making was that it’s not just a case of “but I need my car!” – “oh, alright then, we’ll let you off.” Rather, you’d have to prove exceptional hardship, and you’d then be given a different punishment.

Whether or not you or I consider it lenient or not is neither here nor there, it’s an alternative sentencing.

When I read your previous post I thought you were suggesting that they’d overtaken you on the straights and you’d caught them on the corners. I was prepared to give your story some credence. However, the above is just fantasy.

And all on top of the fact you have a driver so irresponsible they got into licence-losing territory despite needing their car for work,

As an aside, I was once sentenced for driving without insurance. Unbeknown to me there was a 20 minute gap between two concurrent policies, and I was lucky enough to receive a producer in that gap. It was an honest mistake, I’d no idea it’d happened until I cheerfully handed over my documents and the desk sergeant gave me the good news. “Not a court in the world would convict me” thought I. 90 quid fine and six points (some time in the mid 90s).

Add in a couple of speeding tickets over three years or some such and you’d be into licence-losing territory. Not that I’m attempting to justify my younger self’s actions, but perhaps not everyone who is in that situation is a Mad Max. Plenty will be maniacs who shouldn’t be on the road, but some might just be unlucky.

Tell us about your car then Jimjam

Well it’s got adjustable coil overs, drilled vented discs with fast road / track pads. Lightweight flywheel, stage 2 clutch, close ratio box … Boost controller, programmable ecu, full custom exhaust. Some other stuff too but I don’t want to bore you. All external wings badges and splitters removed.
The car is only half the story though since i used to travel that road twice a day, five days a week for 4 years.

Stagea?

jimjam – Member
Tell us about your car then Jimjam
Well it’s got adjustable coil overs, drilled vented discs with fast road / track pads. Lightweight flywheel, stage 2 clutch, close ratio box … Boost controller, programmable ecu, full custom exhaust. Some other stuff too but I don’t want to bore you…

Got any actual performance figures though? Let the numbers do the talking, not the spec sheet – as we used to say in drag racing (motorbikes). Sounds like you’re getting close to giving a 250 a hard time.

Surely removing the wings which are supposedly to aid tyre grip at speed is a bit irresponsible if you are going to drive fast?

Sounds like you’re getting close to giving a 250 a hard time.

Probably

Probably not

It sounds like they were enjoying themselves on the corners but slackening off for the straights. A well known (to bikers) method of retaining your licence while enjoying a powerful bike. The fun is over when the corner “opens up”.

This.

epicyclo

Surely removing the wings which are supposedly to aid tyre grip at speed is a bit irresponsible if you are going to drive fast?

Nah, because of the gearing the car won’t ever get to the speeds where they would be beneficial.

epicyclo

Got any actual performance figures though? Let the numbers do the talking, not the spec sheet

No, not really. I know what the manufacturers figures are. I have an idea, but nothing concrete. I don’t have a racelogic performance meter or anything like that. It feels more than adequate.

Euro

Probably

Probably not

Wanna race Marty? 😀

Sorry I arrived late & I’m not reading the entire thread – is there a post where you revealed what your car actually is Jimjam? Or are you today’s teasing troll??

I think Jimjam’s been pretty clear he’s not saying his car’s faster than a bike- he’s saying that some riders are riding with a fraction of the capability of the bike, for whatever reason, and that enables him to pass them as long as they don’t try and go fast. Nothing controversial there is there?

The theory that they were taking it easy on the straights and having fun in the corners makes most sense to me, especially since they were all staying within the limit. There’s not that many riders that can do corners but not straights after all so the “balls shrivelling” idea seems pretty unlikely.

shifter – Member

Sorry I arrived late & I’m not reading the entire thread – is there a post where you revealed what your car actually is Jimjam? Or are you today’s teasing troll??

I’m not saying. It’s not standard, so the base car is only part of the picture. What I did say though was I’ve driven the road maybe a few thousand times which in my humble opinion, seems more relevant.

Stagea?

I’m going for Legnum VR4. Rare enough for enough people to not know what they are, decent ride, reasonably unassuming, quite quick, surprisingly agile thanks to the Active Yaw Control. Ruinously expensive to run though.
Either way, the reticence when it comes to actually giving us a make and model would suggest it probably isn’t the superbike-munching uber-estate we’re being lead to believe it is.

Euro – Member
Probably

or maybe not (with a few minor mods) 🙂

Wanna race Marty?

I’m a bit big for a 250, can i borrow my mates bike?

I’m going for Legnum VR4.

On second thoughts I reckon some variant of the Subaru Legacy/Forester. Easy swap for the Impreza gearbox which tick the “close ratio” box cheap enough for it not to be a ludicrously expensive undertaking on such a car. Decently quick to begin with, and if it’s had breathing mods and a proper fuelling map then it may well be sub-5 seconds 0-60. Still not going to win any sprints against the bikes mentioned though.

Euro

I’m a bit big for a 250, can i borrow my mates bike?

Will it pass an mot with that tread depth? I’ve not put any pictures of the car on any form of social media where people know me personally, and many do on here. Kind of defeats the purpose of a sleeper. I’ve not mentioned it on Facebook I just feel weird about that. It was just a bit too powerful for it’s last engine, so I’m currently having it rebuilt. I may not keep it because it’s a bit savage for everyday use.

None of the guesses are far off the mark.

What I want to know is how fast it is in comparison to what you could get in the 70s? Faster than a group B rally car of that era?

Well properly fast group B cars only really emerged late into the series, 86?

i recently bought a boxter s. Took it up to 90 on the motorway and it felt a lot scarier than my old ibiza cupra. 270 bhp and ive used about 150 of them max. Its basically like my Enduro bike, ie far far more capable than I’ll ever be.

I don’t understand how people can get anywhere near the limits of a car like that. On a bike you can find the limit by falling off a few times. Spinning off backwards into a tree at 80mph doesn’t afford you quite the same margin of error

Makes a good noise off the lights however 🙂

Well seeing as Group B was introduced in 1982 the 70’s had finished 😉

Every time I see a motorbike loom up in my mirrors I hug the kerb as there is little point getting in their way and I love the sound of a bike powering past.
I’ve driven a few cars that would scare the living shite out of most people (me included) and they have no place on our roads in the hands of some idiot who thinks putting people in their place on the road is a laugh.

This is as close as I’ve been in to a group b car. With the noise of the transmission, stripped out interior, and the guy driving it you just can’t compare it to any road car.

FWIW,
I’ve owned fast bikes before.

Rarely used all their power.
Beat some cars, got beat by others.

Never crashed on a corner or highsided or anything.

The key is to use the appropriate amount of power.

So in reference to ‘are modern cars too powerful for the roads’, the answer is no, as long as you don’t use all of it all the time.

I presume that means you’re avoiding the question again – a group B car was just an example of what you could compare it with…

If “having fun” equates to “driving like you stole it” then yes, absolutely, the public road is no place to be having that sort of “fun.” However, Ifail to see why driving shouldn’t be an enjoyable, pleasurable experience. If I’ve got to drive a few hundred miles, why should I have to do it in a miserable environment where everything I do is an exercise in frustration? What am I gaining by being a martyr?

So I could have fun in my Mondeo or indeed the 1.3 Astra I owned 20 years ago? Because both of those provide just as comfortable an environment to drive as any of the performance cars it seems people want to have (if not more so – not sure how fun it is driving something with stiff suspension on our roads). Unless of course the aim is to make progress when both might be a bit lacking. I’m getting the impression the latter is the case for.a.lot of people, even if it just means a few unnecessary overtakes where there is always some additional risk.

aracer – Member

I presume that means you’re avoiding the question again –

You confused me when you said 70s group B. Like an ’85 works Quattro S1 with 600bhp? A proper group b car, no absolutely not. I’ve never been in one but I’m sure it wouldn’t.

Says the man who accused me of pedantry when avoiding another perfectly legitimate question 🙄 My apologies for not remembering exactly when group B came in, and therefore making the question too difficult for you to understand. Just to help you out, here’s the question again – let me know which bit you’re struggling with?

“What I want to know is how fast it is in comparison to what you could get in the 70s?”

aracer – Member

So I could have fun in my Mondeo or indeed the 1.3 Astra I owned 20 years ago? Because both of those provide just as comfortable an environment to drive as any of the performance cars it seems people want to have

I can have a ton of fun in my mondeo. But then most mondeos are a lot faster than the minimum system requirements for uk roads so we’re kind of back to the same thing… Most UK cars are faster and more powerful than they need to be, so where’s the cutoff when it become reprehensible?

And tbh I think the cutoff is always “when the driver’s a ****” rather than anything you’ll find in the speclist.

That’s a fair point, which I was kind of expecting somebody to make – though if we accept Cougar’s suggestion that it’s reasonable to have something that you don’t have to flog to get up the hills at the speed limit, then mine at least isn’t vastly in excess of that requirement (the Astra just about borderline). So we come back to the question of what the point is of anything faster, given that by Cougar’s criteria I can have just as much fun in that as anything else on the road?

I’m sure somebody on this thread recently described Mondeos as dull to drive, though I’m guessing he wasn’t using the same criteria as Cougar 😉

Aracer I can’t think if any that has a comparable powertrain. Earliest thing I can think of would be the e30 m3. Would have a higher bhp per tonne and would be quicker yes.
No need to be rude

Aha, so what you’re telling me is that your road car is more powerful than anything readily available in the early 80s?

Tis the ‘when the driver’s a dick’ thing that makes the difference. If you’re a dick you could drive my 22 year old Panda through a town centre at double the speed limit – yet I’m sure most people on here are unlikely to argue that 45hp is ‘too powerful for UK roads’. 😯

If you’re content to never use all the power for more than 2-3s at a time then a Veyron / other hypercar isn’t too powerful – but that’d require superhuman effort and be apocalyptically frustrating. That said, you’d have to be a dick to drive a Veyron anyway, so it’s a moot point.

So the closest car to yours configuration wise is a N/A inline 4? You mentioned a boost controller – or have I got the wrong end of the stick again?

Aha, so what you’re telling me is that your road car is more powerful than anything readily available in the early 80s?

No, there are plenty of faster or more powerful cars from the 80s but 4×4 cars were relatively rare, especially in hot estate form. No point comparing apples and oranges.

So the closest car to yours configuration wise is a N/A inline 4? You mentioned a boost controller – or have I got the wrong end of the stick again?

No you havent got the wrong end of the stick, I am just trying to think of a fair comparison in terms of price point, power train, power to weight and category without going into silly homologation specials. I can’t see past the M3 because it’s a high performance version of a fairly average car.

Lancia Beta HPE Volumex? Citroen CX GTi Turbo? Volvo 740 Intercooler Turbo? I suppose the Audi 200 Avant Quattro would be the obvious comparison.

Gah, cars were so much better back in the day. Much worse, but much better as a result.

Edit Fair enough 😀 There were a few, but the e30 M3 would’ve eaten any of them for breakfast!

Volvo 740 Intercooler Turbo?

A friend of mine’s had a few of those, very quick car with a bit of extra boost. All action no traction, but if you can find grip it’s a quick car.

thooms

Edit Fair enough There were a few, but the e30 M3 would’ve eaten any of them for breakfast!

Yeah but stick a big boot on it, a few extra doors and the weight of a 4×4 powertrain….

This is about as close as I can think. Obviously not an estate but 4×4, turbo’d and based on a family car.

I’ve solved the thread!

Modern cars are too powerful for dickheads.

Looks for smiley for “simpers modestly”