Minimum alcohol pricing

If you have a look at drinking culture in Scandinavian countries I don’t think that increasing prices necessarily leads to a healthier drinking culture.

What you see is people not drinking anything during the week and then really going for it at the weekend. You might reduce the amount of alcohol drunk over the course of a week but I would argue that getting absolutely shit-faced in a single night is worse.

Contrast this with the southern European culture where people drink little but often and booze prices are very low suggests that just increasing prices is not the answer.

Maybe it’s just a question of how crappy your climate is.

Getting blatted on a weekend? That’ll never happen in the UK

Is there evidence to show that higher prices reduces alcohol addiction…?

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/scharr/sections/ph/research/alpol/research/completed/scotland
It’s almost as though not like they made this policy up without researching it properly.

Imposing a minimum unit price for alcohol leads to a dramatic fall in drink-related crime, including murders, sexual assaults and drink-driving, a new study shows.

Crimes perpetrated against people, including violent assaults, fell by 9.17% when the price of alcohol was increased by 10% over nine years in the Canadian province of British Columbia. Motoring offences linked to alcohol, such as killing or injuring someone with a vehicle and refusing to take a breath test, fell even more – by 18.8% – the study found.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/28/minimum-alcohol-pricing-cuts-serious-crime-canada

TBF, I’ve also seen some rebuttal of that study

There are a number of studies that show this approach works (see http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067361060058X for an example). But 50p is only just starting to have an effect.

But it will have other impacts too – which is why the SWA oppose it.

Crimes perpetrated against people, including violent assaults, fell by 9.17% when the price of alcohol was increased by 10% over nine years in the Canadian province of British Columbia.

At a time when they were decreasing in many other countries which hadn’t brought in minimum pricing.

https://health.spectator.co.uk/stop-telling-us-that-minimum-alcohol-pricing-works-in-canada-its-nonsense/

The bargain £15 litre bottles of Gordons or Grouse etc will be up to £20. Luckily I visit relatives in England often enough to stock up there, at least until any English govt brings this in.

Though I’d support a change in UK duty rates. I can’t see the logic in a unit of alcohol attracting 7p tax in strong cider but 28p tax in spirits.

I predict an increase in spirit sales to alkies. Why drink litres of cider when the same effect at the same cost is available from a smaller volume of spirits.

like a cut in swa profits as their market for cheap industrial alcohol used for frosty jacks will disappear?

What negative effects will there be?

At 50p a unit at least the price of Buckfast (11.25 units) won’t be affected.

What negative effects will there be?

Well, if the (pessimistic) predictions are correct that all booze prices will step up, then this will have a negative effect on independent producers. Already at the top end for most people’s ‘casual’ drink purchase budget, either maintaining their current prices will put them in direct competition with the big producers putting their prices up; or they will be forced to increase their prices, potentially leaving them uncompetitive. I don’t believe that either scenario will necessarily come to pass (he says hopefully) but Will probably depend on whether Joe Public changes their expectations of what a bottle of booze is going to cost them.

My question is will people be drinking anti-freeze as substitution like in Russia, or will there be illegal “moonshine” coming from the “entrepreneurial” ones. The high price will definitely attract some of them. 😯

Not hugely convinced this will do much good, but it is a nudge in the right direction. Would have preferred to see a greater minimum price though, at least double what has been suggested.

A step in the right direction, but maybe too small a step.

Is there evidence to show that higher prices reduces alcohol addiction…?

No there isn’t. As someone who has an alcoholic in the (extended) family I know that it will mean less money to spend on the essentials. Complete and utter bollocks. Education is the way to go not increasing the cost.[/quote]

If there isn’t evidence it must be because this has never been tried*.

I struggle to see how education will help alcoholism, it’s an addiction (I appreciate you have experience I don’t, I’d be interested to hear your views).

Having heard the figures on R4 today, it seems to me that the market for 3L £3 bottles of high strength cider etc will disappear. I don’t know if it will work but I think it must be worth a try? See *.

I don’t think/can’t believe there’s legislation about where the additional price goes so I’d expect it won’t just go to the retailers (if the market continues to exist).

Good on Scotland for trying I say, I’m not bothered that my occasional gin bottle will now be £14 not £11 (Aldi obvs, not that Gordon’s crap).

I am glad that the principle of a minimum unit price has been established and I hope that when the law is brought into effect the minimum unit price is raised as the 50p level was set 5 years ago

I wouldn’t like to see it raised above 50p, locally I can get 4 bottles of ale for £6 which I think is reasonable.. They are about 5% on average depending on what combination you select.. I’m not sure how many units that equates to but it would certainly hurt the real ale industry, many of who are not mass producers if prices are forced up.

If minimum pricing didnt reduce consumption I doubt Diageo would have spent millions obstructing the law.

Thats said how it could apply to places like Spain who have low alcohol prices but little in the way of alcohol abuse is less clear.

You can but wine kits that will brew up 20+ litres of wine for £20 which may become more popular but anyone organised enough to make there own wine is probably not the most at risk from cheap off licence booze.

locally I can get 4 bottles of ale for £6

I’ve got to flit to where you live 😀
Cheapest here is£1.75 per bottle

Hit the poor where it hurts !!

Who needs Tories, when you have the SNP laying the boot into health, education and now booze?

Do Labour still exist up there to protect the poor from all these nasty people?

Away and take yer face for a shite THM.

I made this graph for a thread in 2009 when minimum pricing was first proposed. No idea if the thread still exists. At the time the minimum price proposed would have impacted quite a bit few drinks. Less so now after inflation and duty rises over the last 8 years.

Aye if you buy me a pint of spesh to take with me

I’ve got to flit to where you live
Cheapest here is£1.75 per bottle

It’s Tesco actually, not a bad selection either!

I’ve got to flit to where you live
Cheapest here is£1.75 per bottle

It’s Tesco actually, not a bad selection either!

BruceWee – Member

If you have a look at drinking culture in Scandinavian countries I don’t think that increasing prices necessarily leads to a healthier drinking culture.

What you see is people not drinking anything during the week and then really going for it at the weekend. You might reduce the amount of alcohol drunk over the course of a week but I would argue that getting absolutely shit-faced in a single night is worse.

Contrast this with the southern European culture where people drink little but often and booze prices are very low suggests that just increasing prices is not the answer.

Maybe it’s just a question of how crappy your climate is.

You might be right, but my step mother was brought up in India and said most of her family barely functioned without “fortification” so perhaps its something hard wired into Northern Europeans?
(am I allowed to use that term in the wake of brexit?)

Iceland seems to have a better way to solve the problem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-41973296/how-one-country-persuaded-teens-to-give-up-drink-and-drugs

That’s brilliant, one of the most positive things I’ve heard about recently.

Could never in my wildest dreams see either UK parents or government doing anything remotely similar (maybe I’m too jaded?)

It strikes me that by raising the price of alcohol, an alcoholic is not going to look at the prices and think of buying a bottle of Fanta instead. They’ll just not feed the kids…

Even for me. If wine were to go up (and if a cheapy £3 bottle of wine goes up to a fiver, a £5 bottle of wine could well go up to 7 or 8 quid) I might well be tempted to drink spirits: something I stopped drinking because I would drink too much!

Given that we have some of the worst alcohol problems across Europe, and the highest prices already…I’m not convinced at all.

It strikes me that by raising the price of alcohol, and alcoholic is not going to look at the prices and think of buying a bottle of Fanta instead. They’ll just not feed the kids

Alcohol issues are not confined to alcoholics, as said a few times on this thread earlier.

Without reading the studies that were posted I can’t see this not helping. Sure, people with dependencies will almost certainly struggle a bit more, which isnt too helpful, but if we help everyone else drink less, there’s still a net gain to society and maybe we stop more people becoming alcoholics in the future. This is mainly going to cut down on the amount people drink when they ‘pre-game’ their night out. If it’s one less bottle of wine, or a pint less at the end of the night, it all helps.

Did a job one time for two very well off posh people. Every morning we came back in to do the work there was at least 3 empty bottles of wine every day for the duration of the job. These would be the type of people that would have sneered at common folk on the street doing the same thing. The only difference was they were drinking more expensive plonk in a comfier environment.

Steph and Dom?

They are about 5% on average depending on what combination you select.. I’m not sure how many units that equates to but it would certainly hurt the real ale industry, many of who are not mass producers if prices are forced up.

300ml bottle at 5% is around 1.5 units at the very most so at £1.50 a bottle it’s £1 a unit. The independent brewers will be just fine.

zntrx – Member

Iceland seems to have a better way to solve the problem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-41973296/how-one-country-persuaded-teens-to-give-up-drink-and-drugs

That’s brilliant, one of the most positive things I’ve heard about recently.

Could never in my wildest dreams see either UK parents or government doing anything remotely similar (maybe I’m too jaded?)

In regards to kids, speaking of myself looking back, I’ve often thought it was utterly backward thinking that essentially we were kicked out of any youth clubs(playschemes we called them) etc as soon as we turned 12, i remember them being a great positive influence, even at that, they weren’t all they could be, but it was supervised and positive activities.

But turn 12, the hell else where we ment to do, with no facilities aimed at us, in short or after a year or so we got together got wasted and formed/joined territorial gangs in lieu of any direction(i’m not talking organised criminality here, though there’s a bit of that, more aimless groups of youngsters).

In fairness, I think it’s something that’s changed a bit these days, gangs don’t exist I think to the extent that they used to, they still exist but I think there are programs to get youngsters together from some of the rougher spots and get them out of it, how widespread that is I don’t know, I’ve seen bits and pieces on the tele, but they aren’t as visible as we were. (They do still exist mind, one of my cousins sons (15yo) was actually in hospital last week after getting attacked in a pretty serious condition. From what I heard, pretty obvious what’s happened.)

Also from listening to parents in work, it’s clear that the likes of after school activities are much more of a thing than they ever used to be.

Ultimately that should be the focus, get youngsters involved in expressing themselves in creative, healthy and physical ways and things will take care of themselves as the years roll by. Particularly if you focus on the 12-18 age groups. It needs state intervention, money and vast programs aimed at that age group though, particularly in the less well off parts.

Minimum prices seem like a plaster on a hatchet wound tbh.

seosamh77 – Member
…Minimum prices seem like a plaster on a hatchet wound tbh.

Yes, but better than no plaster.

It’s a step. If there was an easy answer we would have found it long ago.

Marginally at best. The answer is easy, invest in youth.

edit: they really should make it a tax and fire the money straight at the age group i mention. Half arsed thinking in my opinion if they don’t do something like that.. increasing alcohol companies profits isn’t particularly progressive.

edit: they really should make it a tax

Scottish government doesn’t have the power to increase VAT.

Also I think the extra profit goes to the retailers.

Retailers. Alcohol companies makes no difference. Result is someone profiting, albeit with a small tax rise.

Scottish gov don’t have the powers on excise duty, they could try and negotiate something possibly out with the powers. Ask the UK gov to set different rates to Scotland and funnel the cash separately. May not happen but they could try.

Berwicks Aldi and Lidl will be getting a bit more business…

Be like the old days ” off to France what do you want

Everyone asking if there is any evidence of minimum unit pricing (MUP) working then have a look here:

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/scharr/sections/ph/research/alpol/faq

Also gives a brief explanation of why raising the MUP has more of an effect than raising duty.

Links there to publications and the reports it has provided to Scottish government and others (UK wide, England etc).

If you have the time and want to understan the extensive research that has gone on then you’ll find it interesting.

Si

@Seosamh I agree it’s a pity anyone is making an increased profit out of MUP. As for negotiating new tax powers on alcohol, I think that’s very unlikely in the current political climate.

Is there evidence to show that higher prices reduces alcohol addiction…?
No there isn’t

Haven’t read the whole thread but I take issue at this.

In Canada they put in a 10% rise in minimum unit price which led to a 32% fall in directly attributed deaths. (source)

The vast majority of people with liver cirrhosis are paying less than 50p/unit so it’s only targeting heavy drinkers.

More nanny state bollocks!

Not really. Alcoholism costs us all a lot of money. I don’t really GAS about the fate of individual alcoholics, but I’m happy if something reduces what we spend on the consequences of their behaviour.