Many teachers 'working 60-hour week'

Performance related pay, which can only be done by value judgements.

So what, the vast majority of professionals are on performance related pay but that doesn’t mean you can’t raise concerns to management. It’s pathetic to say the Heads just don’t care, I’m sure that’s maybe true in a small number of cases, but I doubt it for the vast majority. It makes it sound like teachers are happier to keep moaning than actually work with management to come up with a solution. Lets face it if as a teacher can show a way of improving both the said teachers performance and also the schools / heads, then it would be an idiot of a head that said no.

dragon – Member
Scotroutes makes a serious point, why are so many people afraid to stand up for themselves in a positive way? I don’t mean just moaning, but explaining the situation and working to resolve it.

Sadly, amedias and freeagent have the answer. As an ex-teaching union rep, I’ve seen that blacklisting and nepotism are rife in teaching and there’s VERY little an individual can do about if they’re on the receiving end (other than cut their losses and go for the best settlement deal they can get). Unfortunately, teachers and school leaders are just people – some are excellent and look after their staff really well, others are just mean-spirited twunts and would sooner wreck a good teacher’s career than be accountable for their school’s performance.

FWIW, I work roughly 8-00 to 4-30 or 5-00 each day with no lunch break (although I am right now having a 10 minute breather before starting prep for tomorrow) and usually do 2 or 3 hours on a Sunday morning, so I’m a bit under the article’s 60 hours. Having been teaching almost 20 years though, I have a reasonable store of tweakable resources to call on and my subject (Art) has not been meddled with as much as some others. If you work smart there’s no real reason (barring individual schools having stupid policies) to do more than 50 hours and still deliver decent lessons and results.

It’s pathetic to say the Heads just don’t care, I’m sure that’s maybe true in a small number of cases, but I doubt it for the vast majority

Worked in many schools?

Lets face it if as a teacher can show a way of improving both the said teachers performance and also the schools

Any idiot can do that but how it would help work load?

Current preptime in most schools is between 2 and 3 periods off per week.

Could anybody manage to do prepare 30 interactive, engaging activities to keep 30 office workers amused for 30 hours per week with only 120 minutes of preparation time, bearing in mind that all learners need to be catered for in that class.

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scotroutes – Member
If it’s not possible then do as many as you can and tell your head there wasn’t enough time to do them all. Is there some special process with teachers that has the word ‘no’ expunged from their vocabulary?

It doesn’t really work like that. If you haven’t prepped a lesson you’re the one with 20-30 kids in front of you trying to invent a lesson on the hoof.

I’m a bit under the article’s 60 hours

The article says that ‘only’ 1 in 5 are doing 60 and that most full-time teachers work an average of 48.2 hours per week

8am to 6pm is 10 hours, assuming no breaks and working constantly; that’s 50 hours per week. Assuming breaks in the day balance evening and weekend working, that seems about right for colleagues in ‘proper’ schools.

My better half is a primary school teacher in Wales, regularly does a 60+ hour week to keep on top of all the statistics that the government require. They have their Estyn, Welsh OFSTED, start today, so the last 4 weeks has been in school 7 days a week, 0800-1800 weekdays, 0900-1500 weekends to prepare, on top of that she will do 4-6 hours in the evening every evening.
Underpaid, under resourced and under appreciated in my opinion, and don’t get me started on the whole 12 weeks off a year OFR. I would not do her job for love nor money.

Sorry, but every profession thinks they are a “special case”. Bullying, nepotism, blacklisting and the rest happen in various forms throughout all sectors of employment.

Sorry, but every profession thinks they are a “special case”.

What do you do for a living Scotroutes?

I have little comment on this and no axe to grind for or against teachers (fine job, I couldn’t do it) other than to say can we please not include travel time in working hours

Scotroutes +1

Add to your list under resourced, pretty much everyone in every sector moans about that.

A_A so you think the majority of heads don’t care and are just interested in money. Really? I just don’t buy it. It’s like saying all MD’s are only interested in the profit, sure that the case for some, but it is ridiculous to say it applies to all.

can we please not include travel time in working hours

Quite agree.

As I stated earlier, some of the hours claimed are totally unrealistic.

No lunch break? So when do you eat? Or do you have magic astronauts tablets?

Never mind Mike Ashley or Amazon, it seems that our schools are hot beds of worker exploitation.

Working Time Directive anyone?

gobuchul – Member

No lunch break? So when do you eat? Or do you have magic astronauts tablets?

You’ve never worked through lunch?

No lunch break? So when do you eat?

Lol, perfectly possible to eat whilst working!

Working Time Directive anyone?

Haha! Double lolz!

No lunch break? So when do you eat?

In between the fights in the canteen you’ve had to break up whilst on duty.

Lol, perfectly possible to eat whilst working!

Food in a classroom while teaching?

Food in a classroom while teaching?

Food in a classroom while marking, while the kids are on lunch.

You’ve never worked through lunch?

mate – I’ve worked 36 – 48 hr shifts in the past. I still sit down and eat at some point.

I’m not sure what these people are counting as “work”?

Food in a classroom while marking, while the kids are on lunch.

A_A so you think the majority of heads don’t care and are just interested in money. Really? I just don’t buy it

No they are interested in gaming ofsted. And you dont have to buy it I couldnt care less. I note you havent answered my question.

No lunch break? So when do you eat?

Most days I eat mine in the classroom whilst kids work. Often I dont eat till 3.30.
As said earlier I work from 7.30 till 4.30 most days with very little in the way of breaks. In my previous role when I managed others I worked till about 5.30 most days with at least 4 hours a weekend. I jacked it in and now work about 2 hours a weekend. Many do more.
Funny thing was in my meeting with the head about giving up my role he said he had ways of coping with workload like working from 8 till 10pm at least 2 days a week. I tried hard not to laugh at his “strategy”.

No surprise teachers are leaving the profession and the volume of individuals entering the profession is low (compared to the need of the country) judging by some of the sentiments in this thread.. teachers are educating our young people and without them our society is ****.. so they should be given way more respect than they currently get…

Gobuchul is trolling.

Or a super-important guy who keeps the country running through sheer hard work.

Worked in many schools?

Out of interest, how many have you worked in AA and how many different types?

So lets think about expections here – a monopoly employer, heavy and constant government interference, a service provided free at the point of delivery, the absurd notion of comprehensive/mixed abilty approaches etc – and people wonder why the job is undervalued, underpaid and stressful? It’s not rocket science is it. Most teachers are taken for granted. But as others have said, this is not unique to teaching.

I have mixed feelings about this.

Without a doubt teachers, like all public sector works (especially nurses and doctors), are convinced the world owes them a living.

On the other hand, having spent years working (yes, working and not travelling or eating) 60-100 hours a week, I know exactly how dire that is for your life. And all I did was sit behind a desk and make phone calls, attend meetings or draft and redraft documents.

I’m ignoring the anecdotal evidence and sample sizes of one in this thread (not statistically relevant) and look at the facts: poor money, permanently moving goalposts and daily pressure. And you get the blame when it doesn’t go right.

No thanks.

Out of interest, how many have you worked in AA and how many different types?

4. One of the original academies, 2LEA and 1 of the more recent academies.

comprehensive/mixed abilty approaches

Comps dont mean mixed ability classes in the vast majority of classes.

I’m sure the points raised in this thread are not unique to teaching but this thread is about teachers and itvseems funny to me that people ask about teaching and then complain about moaning when the teachers told them about it.

Without a doubt teachers, like all public sector works (especially nurses and doctors), are convinced the world owes them a living.

I am a public sector worker, I don’t think for one second that the world owes me shit.
Sorry if that challenges your preconceptions.

Is there some special process with teachers that has the word ‘no’ expunged from their vocabulary?

Problem is that, like doctors and nurses, the job NEEDS doing.

4. One of the original academies, 2LEA and 1 of the more recent academies.

How did the experience differ?

Good job about avoiding mixed-ability teaching….

Well the first academy was the worst performing school in England at the time and I was training to be a teacher and then doing my nqt year. It had great facilities and money wasnt really a barrier. Christ it was tough though. The other 3 schools were all the same really. On a day to day basis for teachers you wouldnt know the difference.

+1 Molgrips.

The problem is that doctors, nurses etc. are taken advantage of, as most of us cannot say no, as if we do not do the job properly, it is not us that suffer, but patients or students.

I think that teachers and nurses would like to feel as though they are respected and feel valued, but at the moment due to government changes and government rhetoric along with the tabloids, they feel worthless.

I do not mind working the long hours, as I do the job because I enjoy it, what I detest is doing the pointless paperwork that is all about ‘evidence’ and arse covering.

well i can only say as i see and we overlook the local primary school where dd2 is studying…

first ones trn up just after 8 ( gates are locked until then) school closes for kids at 3.15 and i v never seen anyone there post 4.30. school holidays no one shows except for the last day of the holidays when about half the teachers carpark is full.

carpark this am had a range rover 3 beemers and merc. rest were mins ect.. not a bad do id say.. each class of 30 has one teacher and 2 ta in a school with 8 classes there is one head three deputies and 3 admin staff..

and i v never seen anyone there post 4.30.

Even on parents eve?
I think you are talking shite tbh. My experience is that primary teachers seem to do longer hours. I regularly see my sons teacher when I pick him up from after school club.

ourmaninthenorth – Member

Without a doubt teachers, like all public sector works (especially nurses and doctors), are convinced the world owes them a living.

They do absolutely essential and lifechanging work, they are owed a living.

At my school the heads pa drives a porsche pan amera or whatever its called. Her husband works in the “city” apparently. So I’m not sure what relevance the cars have.

Some crypto-Tory scum showing their true colours on this thread.

first ones trn up just after 8 ( gates are locked until then) school closes for kids at 3.15 and i v never seen anyone there post 4.30. school holidays no one shows except for the last day of the holidays when about half the teachers carpark is full.

Entirely possible if the school’s been PPI’d. School is charged if teachers are there outside core hours.

Without a doubt teachers, like all public sector works (especially nurses and doctors), are convinced the world owes them a living.

We really don’t.

Without doubt private sector workers are jealous, lazy and full of shit.

mate – I’ve worked 36 – 48 hr shifts in the past. I still sit down and eat at some point.

None stop? Bollocks!

Primary school teacher here. PPA morning tomorrow so I have less work to do tonight. In my first year of teaching I calculated that I worked 600 hours more than I did in my previous job (37.5 hours a week, 23 days holiday a year), it’s probably not that much any more . Currently earning about £10k less than my old job too. I didn’t move jobs for the money, I did it because I wanted to do something more worthwhile and interesting. It certainly is more interesting.

I would say that 60 hours a week isn’t too far off. I’m in work by 8am every morning and leave at 6pm most nights, sometimes later but rarely earlier. I normally do a couple of hours work every night and then a few at the weekend. I usually have 15 mins for lunch each day.

I know schools like totalshell mentions. If he’s keeping that much of an eye on them he’all probably notice that most teachers are taking a stack of work home with them every night. I was getting kicked out at 5pm every night at one school I worked at. It annoyed me because I like to get as much done at school as I can and bring as little home as possible. Most of the other teachers there left early as they had young children to go and collect and worked most of the night once their little ones had gone to bed.

I do not mind working the long hours, as I do the job because I enjoy it, what I detest is doing the pointless paperwork that is all about ‘evidence’ and arse covering.

This, I think, is key.
I regularly do 60-hour weeks now, on occasion over 70, where previously I used to do a 37.5 hour week.
The big difference is stress, the shorter week was really heavy going towards the end, panic attacks in front of my supervisor, visits to the doctor due to health worries, but now, despite the hours, I’m much, much happier, because the stress has gone, there’s little paperwork involved, and I enjoy the job.
Take away the box-ticking and all the other ass-covering bullshit, and I’m sure teachers would be much happier, doing what they should be doing, teaching kids.

Currently earning about £10k less than my old job too. I didn’t move jobs for the money, I did it because I wanted to do something more worthwhile and interesting.

This kind of parasitic attitude is typical of these workshy layabouts, eh Ourmaninthenorth?