dragon – Member

Northwind management are people also, they make mistakes or don’t have the whole picture.

If 1/5 teachers are working a 60 hour week, it’s not because managers are making mistakes or don’t have the whole picture.

Is it because they are inefficient? 😉

Partially and where relevant

Eh?

Is it because they are inefficient?

Yes, because OFSTED and therefore SLT dont look at outcomes enough they look at the process too much and this is whats fed down.

Teamhurtmore – I know there are a few ways that I could be more efficient. But there are some where I definitely can’t. I’m still working pretty much 60 hours a week.

Matt_SS_xc – I’m not sure I agree that teachers get paid well. Certainly someone who has been teaching for a good few years will get paid a reasonable amount. But someone in their first three years of teaching will be working as many or more hours than an experienced teacher. They will be under the same or similar pressure as any other class teacher (excluding those with TLRs or in SLT) but will be getting paid £22-26k per year – with no guarantee any more that they will achieve a pay award. In your second year of teaching in a Primary school you are likely to be made subject leader but are unlikely to get extra money for being one even though it means more work. It’s the same at many Primary schools.

The school I am at is changing to a Primary school in the next year. I was having a discussion today with the head about some of the things we will have to begin to offer in Y5 and 6. We know we desperately need to start offering more after school clubs and sports teams. I’d love to run an after school sports club and a team. Coaching is one of the things that pushed me toward teaching in the first place. Given the time I have to spend on the rest of the job I’m not likely to put myself forward unless I’m given time out of the classroom to organise and plan the club. If I’m not given time the club/team would be a shambles or I’d be letting down my class by cutting corners elsewhere.

Teamhurtmore – I know there are a few ways that I could be more efficient. But there are some where I definitely can’t. I’m still working pretty much 60 hours a week.

I was joking !!

I have a great respect for teachers. But what nobody seems to be able to tell me, is what do their contracts say? Are they contracted 9-5 Mon-Fri ?

If so then why aren’t the teachers going to their heads and saying “if you want this marking/planning done then you need to allocate me time to do it, because come 5pm I am out of here and going home without a bundle of books.”

Where do the teachers unions stand on this? Has anyone been sacked for not doing work in their own time ?

Still great respect for teachers and I think you guys should be paid double for what you do.

At work, start the clock…

is what do their contracts say? Are they contracted 9-5 Mon-Fri ?

Doesnt mention hours as I recall.

Still great respect for teachers and I think you guys should be paid double for what

Agreed, if not quite double but key question, are you prepared to pay for it? If not then these are empty words in the same way as nurses etc are underpaid.

Agreed, if not quite double but key question, are you prepared to pay for it? If not then these are empty words in the same way as nurses etc are underpaid.

yes, and nurses/NHS generally.
edit, and i don’t have kids, and nor am i likely to have them. i’m also single on a (IMO) decent wage, so am probably receiving less benefit from state services than most, FWIW.
better education and better health is fundamental to improving society. not investing in these areas does the biggest dis-service to those who come after we could possibly do.

If so then why aren’t the teachers going to their heads and saying “if you want this marking/planning done then you need to allocate me time to do it, because come 5pm I am out of here and going home without a bundle of books.”

I think the problem is that the outcome from that would be that education and therefore results suffer, and the teacher then gets their behind handed to them for not meeting their targets (which Mrs Pondo intimates are not particularly grounded in reality anyway).

If so then why aren’t the teachers going to their heads and saying “yada yada yada.”

victim blaming?

Who defines what an essential job is?

Collins dictionary, for a start: http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/key-worker

“(in Britain) a worker in any of a number of public sector professions considered by the government to be essential to society, for example teachers, police officers, NHS health workers, etc”

When people are asked to make an additional “investment” – ie fees – there is uproar.

Are they contracted 9-5 Mon-Fri ?

Some years ago there were notional hours per year presented in a contract I had but effectively they were meaningless as there were ‘additional hours as reasonably directed by the principal to fulfil requirements’ or some such wording. As it all rested on the definition of ‘reasonable’ it was a potential minefield.

I never spent time adding my hours up with the intention of stopping when the hours were up. I just got on with the job as well as I could which I did enjoy for almost all of the 30 years I did it.

aa nope we didn’t strike the union just instigated a work to contract. 37.5hrs and keeping a note of all activities so they could be checked against locally negotiated working time agreements. The threat was enough.

When people are asked to make an additional “investment” – ie fees – there is uproar.

was this directed at me?
pay for it from general taxation, for the benefit of society at large.

ah that old chestnut

anagallis_arvensis – Member

How are you comparing thm. If you compared scottish to similar socio economic areas of england and wales how does it look?

Being able to correctly list what the SNP have actually introduced would be a start,but SNPBAD n’kay?

A bit of digging shows the gap has fluctuated under SNP government. Down South the BBC said that pupils at “excellent” OFSTED schools do twice as well as those at “inadequate” Up here it is difficult to quantify as the SNP have based their policy on the OCED report of 2007 that suggests tackling Socio-economic factors is the key. PISA’s report suggested it had improved between 2009-12, but slipped 2012-15, the most recent figures available and remains comparable to England and Wales.

ah that old chestnut

again, is this aimed at me?
um?

Going home…stop the clock!!

A_a no need to stop the clock on holidays. Cannae beat tattie howking.

Going home…stop the clock!!

Open evening tonight, for prospective students, so I’m here until gone 9 tonight. Same next Tuesday, too. Just cruel on weeks 8 and 9 of this half term.

I had parents eve last week. Makes fridays a killer. This week I am supervising the year 7 disco tomorrow but I volunteered for that!

So as a rule(s)
Ignore any task requested by email (I ignore any email that just says FYI)
Focus on marking & lessons.
If someone asks for a task to do done twice only then do it.
You can never fully prepare a lesson so know when to stop.
Remember the good lessons, forget the bad.

A teacher said to me today always mark your books even if it means not planning your lessons as they can track unmarked books…like I said process over outcomes…

Don’t kids mark each others books these days? Every day we had to swap jotters and mark them as the teacher read out the answers.

Theres a bit more to marking than ticking or crossing.

Gold stars?

Feedback on how to improve.

Theres a bit more to marking than ticking or crossing.

Knot in my skool their wasent adn we turned out alwrite.

To the question about contracted hours… we have something called “Directed Time” it basically means teaching time, duties, meetings, PPA, leadership/management time etc… Our directed time is 1,265 hours per year. That time doesn’t include things like marking.

Feedback on how to improve.

“Must try harder.”

Do more and do it better

Damn things have changed since I was at school.

To the question about contracted hours… we have something called “Directed Time” it basically means teaching time, duties, meetings, PPA, leadership/management time etc… Our directed time is 1,265 hours per year. That time doesn’t include things like marking.

The Blue Book: http://www.nottsfednasuwt.org.uk/bluebook.htm

anagallis_arvensis – Member

Do more and do it better

This wasn;t a school, but in a previous job I got hacked off with some really inefficient processes we did, I worked out how to simplify it all and speed it up, my boss said “we need to work harder, not smarter” 😆

Damn things have changed since I was at school.

No canes or smacking if you failed the weekly test. No walking into the showers or naked swimming. No more inedible food or izal medicated bog roll. How did we survive in the old days!!!