Lewis brakes on the Intense race team bikes

Anyone who is desperate for approval of retail buying decisions from strangers on the internet is either shilling or needs help.

They are very popular in China with young Freeriders/DHers. Everything online says how great they are. Massive advertising, word of mouth, and nationalism with most home-grown products. £182 for a set of LH4 right now.

I finally got hold of someone’s bike with a front LH model on. The lever was squeezing to the bar slowly like a Shimano with a punctured master cylinder reservoir. I told the kid perhaps it needed a bleed. He said it had been done a couple of days ago and showed me the video from the LBS doing it. I couldn’t see any visible oil leaks. He also said it randomly stopped working and the lever easily went to the bar. 10 minutes later he showed me it had started doing it again.  Perhaps it needed a rebuild I told him? Contact the seller about warranty. Literally nothing online about any other failing brakes. Either they’re 99.99% perfect, or something is going on online.

No company has no manufacturing problems. Riders crash their bikes and damage brakes and I’m not seeing any of the aftermath of any of that either.

in my opinion was a cowardly and pathetic response by people who had not even used them.

Welcome to the internet.

Can we please just let this thread die?

I think Northwind made a very good point earlier in the thread.

Dale Stone has put out a video on Lewis brakes and it’s an interesting watch if a bit long. TLDR they directly copied Trickstuff for their early domestic market stuff but have made changes/improvements for the international market stuff.

Not sure about that colourway, or is it scheme.

The ‘truth’ still remains that buying Lewis is offshoring money that could remain in the UK if you buy Hope.

*Spoken as someone who is in UK manufacturing.

I guess the argument is usually price when it comes to buying UK made Vs Chinese but these brakes seem to be almost as expensive as a set of Hope brakes so I’m not sure I’d take the risk.

The ‘truth’ still remains that buying Lewis is offshoring money that could remain in the UK if you buy Hope.

I was going to make a clever comment about the price difference but the price isn’t actually all that much less.

Yup, just buy Hopes.

It’s such a shit name.
Apart from that I can’t see the appeal, even if they were super cheap.

The ‘truth’ still remains that buying Lewis is offshoring money that could remain in the UK if you buy Hope.

Isn’t that true of buying anything from abroad that’s likely to be better? I can’t think of any UK made bike parts that’s the best in its category – the reason to buy is always because it’s British, not because it’s the best.

I’m not saying Lewis are the best (you’ll have to do a lot to convince me anything is better than Formulas) but to say Hope,  Renthal , Orange, Unite, Superstar, Burgtec or Middleburn are best at what they do isn’t true either.

TLDR they directly copied Trickstuff for their early domestic market stuff but have made changes/improvements for the international market stuff.

Sorry I don’t have time to watch the video, but does that mean they stole the Trickstuff technical  IP for territories where they could get away with it – then made them legally compliant for countries where it could be enforced?

I’ve just ordered some Saint brakes on discount anyway, probably for less than these.

where did you find discounted saints, @chapaking? I have a mate looking for exactly that

Gribs

Dale Stone has put out a video on Lewis brakes and it’s an interesting watch if a bit long. TLDR they directly copied Trickstuff for their early domestic market stuff but have made changes/improvements for the international market stuff.

If there was ever a youtuber that needed a TLDR, it’s Dale Stone

That came up on my feed, but….. FORTY minutes long?

Try watching it and not just complaning about the length. I watched it, thinking I’ll do it in a couple of attempts, but I found it interesting enough to watch in one go (if at 1.5 speed in places).

Apart from that I can’t see the appeal,

Of a company adding competition, & improving on previous designs?

The ‘truth’ still remains that buying Lewis is offshoring money that could remain in the UK if you buy Hope.

So your going on every non hope brake thread and start shouting the same?

Does that mean they stole the Trickstuff technical  IP for territories where they could get away with it

Seemingly not at all, they did what all engieering companies do and take the competitions product to pieces, to design an improved brake… same as is done in every industry, everywhere… If the IP was stolen, then Trickstuff (or DT swiss) would be suing them, without a doubt.

I think there interesting, as all competition is good, & the fact there from an established company (if not in brakes),  is a major plus to me. They have though  made themselves famous by courting controversy with Trickstuff, right from outset. All publicity is good publicity

Not going to dump my Sram Codes just yet

If the IP was stolen, then Trickstuff (or DT swiss) would be suing them, without a doubt.

They’re in China. Good luck with that.

but does that mean they stole the Trickstuff technical  IP for territories where they could get away with it

In his video, Stone claims that they’re a long standing manufacturer of fishing reels They decided (for some reason) to get into mountain bike brakes. In order to speed up development, they get a bunch of brakes and tear them apart to see what works and what doesn’t. They decide that the Trickstuff is the best design. They go ahead and make 300 sets of a direct copy of the Trickstuff Detersseima and send them out to folks to use, abuse report back. In the mean time, they claim to have made a number of improvements to the Trickstuff design to make it better. I think the gist of the video is saying that copying in China doesn’t carry the same implications that it does here, and that the brakes while still visually similar to Trickstuff are in fact their own thing.

Yes, I was bored and watched it last night

Thanks, that’s impressively transparent and exactly what I’d assumed then.

And yes I was inferring that China has a lax attitude to IP enforcement, by common consensus.

But does that mean they got their influencers to “review” the direct Trickstuff copies, then changed the internals when putting them on sale?

Does that fella like the brakes or not?

where did you find discounted saints, @chapaking? I have a mate looking for exactly that

Have a look at Biketart and Edinburgh BC.

Seemingly not at all, they did what all engieering companies do and take the competitions product to pieces, to design an improved brake… same as is done in every industry, everywhere… If the IP was stolen, then Trickstuff (or DT swiss) would be suing them, without a doubt.

Kelvin’s right. IP in China is a different subject. There’s a pride in the ability to copy something well, it’s a different way of seeing it. But it’s also right that no good engineering company doesn’t understand the the detail of the competition before creating a competitor. And when the original product is at such a high price, arguably the door is left wide open for a lower cost version.

z1ppy
Try watching it and not just complaning about the length. I watched it, thinking I’ll do it in a couple of attempts, but I found it interesting enough to watch in one go (if at 1.5 speed in places).

He covers it all in the first fifteen minutes, then literally repeats that first whole fifteen minutes as a “quick summary”

He’s an unbelievable waffler, which massively detracts from his content, which is generally very good

I’ll pass. Just the approach taken by Lewis brakes doesn’t sit well with me. For similar money to Hopes? No-brainer of a choice to me.

jameso

There’s a pride in the ability to copy something well, it’s a different way of seeing it. But it’s also right that no good engineering company doesn’t understand the the detail of the competition before creating a competitor. And when the original product is at such a high price, arguably the door is left wide open for a lower cost version.

This is all fair, but they are absolutely trading on the look of TrickStuff, like copying the body panels of a Ferrari and sticking them on a Toyota – design/appearance is IP as well as the internals and the engineering.

Does that fella like the brakes or not?

Broadly; yes. He says the same sorts of things about them that other testers have said. They’re very powerful, the range of adjustment is good they seem well made and robust. He’s done a large amount of research on the development of the brakes, and takes what Lewis says about their claims of improvements and that they are substantially [internally at least] different, at face value.

Here’s a thought, if a Chinese company who had never made brakes before came along claiming to make some of the best brakes around and was still charging a premium for them (not Trickstuff premium but not cheap), would anyone buy them. Surely it’s the fact that they are so similar to TS that people are buying them. If they were a completely new design then would people trust them so readily?

I genuinely need new brakes, they look like a rip off of Trickstuff. Is there any proof (circumstantial or otherwise) that they are made unethically as that is a big issue for me

The definitely copied Trickstuff including using some of their branding for the first iteration of their brakes. The current ones are clearly inspired by them but have some changes. There’s no suggestions they’re doing anything illegal. If you’re at all worried then buying Hope is a safe option as they’re functionally excellent, have brilliant long lasting support and are made in the UK.

In his video, Stone claims that they’re a long standing manufacturer of fishing reels

Shimano?!?!?

{insert winky face}

Ignore my post now I’ve read and watch some of that video it is obviously a rip off. When I said ethically I was thinking more from an employee (slave?) Well being/renumeration perspective. Didn’t realise IP had been taken so blatantly, nor did I realise they were from China.

I’ve removed from list of prospective brakes. God modern shopping is a minefield these days!!!

claims that they’re a long standing manufacturer of fishing reels

Shimano?!?!?

Same thought! Copy a business diversification strategy from one company, and product from another.

So where do Clarks CRS fit into all this. They are also very similar

From ‘bikeradar’

“The four-piston caliper has more than a passing resemblance to that found on the Hope Tech 4 V4, while the lever takes on a Trickstuff aesthetic.”

I just sent some counterfeit guitar strings back to Amazon because they turned out to be Chinese knock-offs of Ernie Ball strings.

There’s no way on earth I’d ever knowingly use anything actually important that’s a rip off copy done without the knowledge of what went on in development. Especially brakes !   Go check out the Russian Concordski crashing because they’d made it based on pre-design-update drawings stolen from the real Concord makers !

Ethical ? Yes. Absofuckinglootly.

So where do Clarks CRS fit into all this. They are also very similar

Are intense using them on their race team bikes ?

design/appearance is IP as well as the internals and the engineering.

I agree, I don’t like the extent of similarities. There’s an inevitably to it though.