Lance, latest have we done it yet.

iirc Ashenden thought his biological passport showed signs of systematic doping but WADA?? would not consider it

Funnily enough if this is true it would have been the UCI who would have brought a bio passport case. It’s a conflict of interest because it might not look good to open a case against your star rider.

If it was up to WADA I’m sure this would be at CAS now.

I suspect one reason for going for Armstrong is his ‘legend’ status amongst general public – has more impact in terms of negative publicity and to act as a warning. Plus they may well yet go after the others.
Also Armstrong has made a lot of enemies it seems, more than the others? So more people wanted to see him punished…

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/10/23/the-apology-lance-armstrong-will-never-give/

So, if Armstrong has been wiped from the Tour records and they’re going to start coming after the money as well….

Why don’t the UCI/WADA/ASO/etc also go after the following for their race titles and/or winnings?

Well other than the fact there are in some cases no actions to carry out and in others they’ve been done. To give you a few different examples:

Basso was found guilty of intention to dope. There was no proof he’d actually doped but he got a two year ban which meant that for two years he won no titles, and won no money. Hard to give back things you never got.

Schleck (Frank) was found not guilty of doping. Hard to strip titles from someone you’ve found not guilty.

Danielson confessed and his race results and prize money from March 1 2005 to September 23 2006 have been stripped.

So CFH, what exactly was your point? Armstrong has been stripped of titles from the period he was found to have doped. The lifetime ban is for the “conspiracy” of doping he engaged in. He’s been treated for the race results exactly how (most of) the others have been treated. I’d agree that Leipheimer has got off relatively lightly though.

So CFH, what exactly was your point? Armstrong has been stripped of titles from the period he was found to have doped

This +1

Not really sure what your getting at Flashy?

Lance, latest have we done it yet.

YES yes we have.

chortle 😉

Cav’s words

And following the UCI Statement published Monday, they’ve added some additional documents (linked at bottom of page) which still question USADA’s methods & jurisdiction.

From the document:

a) Jurisdiction
For the UCI jurisdiction is no longer an issue at this stage.

Seems they’re quite happy with it but it’s interesting that they really do seem to be nibbling at USADA saying that they should have involved the UCI because the UCI would have sided with them anyway. Given McQuaid’s comments between the announcement and the documentation being released, I think that’s a bit odd for them to say realy.

Interesting piece on Millar in the Times today, suggesting that he might be getting a little bit too keen to condemn others while ignoring his own past.

atlaz – I read the ‘at this stage’ as lip service due to several references that LA could, if he choses, contest jurisdiction through arbitration or the courts.

Seems I’m not alone.

Bertie doped. That’s a shame, as I loved watching his dancing climbing style. But, he doped. That’s a fact. If the UCI et al really cared, they’d have slapped him with a lifetime ban, as you suggest.

Hmmm, the CAS does not agree that he doped, they reckon it was a contaminated food supplement:

The Panel after review of the 4000-page file and thorough deliberations, noted first that it was not disputed by the parties that Alberto Contador tested positive with clenbuterol and thereby committed an anti-doping rule violation. Neither was it disputed that in order for the Athlete to avoid a two year sanction, he had to establish, on a balance of probability a) how the prohibited Substance entered his body and b) that he committed no fault or no significant fault or negligence.

Alberto Contador alleged that the presence of clenbuterol in his system originated from eating contaminated meat. The UCI and WADA submitted that it was more likely that the adverse analytical finding of the Athlete was caused by a blood transfusion or by the ingestion of a food supplement than by the consumption of contaminated meat.

The Panel found that there were no established facts that would elevate the possibility of meat contamination to an event that could have occurred on a balance of probabilities. Unlike certain other countries, notably outside Europe, Spain is not known to have a contamination problem with clenbuterol in meat. Furthermore, no other cases of athletes having tested positive to clenbuterol allegedly in connection with the consumption of Spanish meat are known.

The Panel concluded that both the meat contamination scenario and the blood transfusion scenario were, in theory, possible explanations for the adverse analytical findings, but were however equally unlikely. In the Panel’s opinion, on the basis of the evidence adduced the presence of clenbuterol was more likely caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food supplement.

From http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/5649/5048/0/Media20Release20_English_2012.02.06.pdf

A lifetime ban for having a contaminated protein shake would seem a little unfair?

Cadel Evans has put a piece on his website.

“I hope that people remember that the events being uncovered mostly occurred seven or more years ago, amongst a minority of those involved in a sport which has already changed and moved on”

🙄

Something else for Cadel’s website….

A lifetime ban for having a contaminated protein shake would seem a little unfair?

LOL. Do they believe in santa claus too?

Meanwhile, over in the land of offialdom…
http://road.cc/content/news/69446-lance-armstrong-uci-and-usada-catch-22

This is all very entertaining. Athletes coming out with all sorts to either defend LA or to condemn him, the UCI, USADA and WADA having a spat over jurisdiction, rights and procedures.

If we had lifetime bans for first offences Armstrong would never have been caught.

First doping sanction – up to 4 years
Second doping sanction – life ban

I understand Cadel and Cav’s frustrations that something that happened so long ago is affecting them now, callling their achivements into doubt. But they need to open their eyes and see what the fans are saying.

The fans will not accept this be brushed under the carpet, due to the trangressions of the whole sport they are now gulity until proven incocent and that is what they have to deal with. Hoping this will go away isn’t enough, they need to condem the actions of the past, openely state that they don’t dope and that anyone doping now is not welcome, they need to go above and beyond to be open and show they are not doping and they need to end the omerta. Only then will we start to have faith in the their achivements again.

A lifetime ban for having a contaminated protein shake would seem a little unfair?

LOL. Do they believe in santa claus too?

Cenbuterol has been used in some protein shakes etc, as a ‘cutting’ agent, it is supposed to promote lean muscle mass. However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It’s not like he’s got a weight problem, and it doesn’t have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I’m aware of – if it does please enlighten me.

Saying that, I don’t for one minute think that’s he’s clean, but clen, really, really?

“It is UCI’s view that USADA’s reference to national law is not appropriate.”

Just about sums up the UCI.

Cadel seems to be either very naive, which i doubt, or very silly to think this is a storm in someone else’s tea cup.

oh and won’t be long before Hora makes a visit…..15posts…..

Reality Check: The search for a competitive advantage has been going on forever. This is why the sports governing body introduces rules in respect of the sport. To control the boundaries and to adjudicate on acceptability. Often done to keep costs down for the masses of weekend riders who like to emulate their heroes.

The UCI has systematically failed to take control and deal with the doping situation in cycling. Frankly anyone who thinks the sport is a) clean now, or b) that Armstrong/US Postal were the exceptions are naive in the extreme. Every professional was at it, and in all likelihood still are, but just in more sophisticated ways.

What is currently happening is scape-goating. The absolute reality is that if what is happening to LA is the right route, then you might as well write off all professional results for the last 30 years or so, perhaps longer.

What is necessary is strong and clear leadership indicating that cheating is intolerable and will be sought out wherever and whenever it occurs and more importantly that samples will be kept and new technology will be applied retrospectively. What actually stops this sort of thing is the likelihood of being caught. If the LA example is to do anything for the sport, the retrospective element has to be the one.

However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It’s not like he’s got a weight problem, and it doesn’t have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I’m aware of – if it does please enlighten me.

Saying that, I don’t for one minute think that’s he’s clean, but clen, really, really?

Common theory is that he took it during the off season (or pre-Tour anyway) during his build up. When blood was removed to eb stored, it still had traces of clenbuterol in it and it was re-infused on the rest day (the perfect time to do it). The next day he got tested and there were still sufficient traces of it there to show up.

There was information being circulated at the time (no, I can’t find the source…) that non-verified tests had found traces of plasticizer (used in blood bags) in there as well but because the tests weren’t legally valid, they couldn’t be used to prove he’d had a blood transfusion.

I’m convinced Contador is guilty of doping but so far he’s mostly been smart enough to avoid getting caught conclusively.

Oh and +1 for everything that Berm Bandit said ^^

atlaz – I read the ‘at this stage’ as lip service due to several references that LA could, if he choses, contest jurisdiction through arbitration or the courts.

Well he’s already challenged it through the courts and lost so I suppose in theory he could keep appealing but I think he’d lose. And he refused arbitration so again, not sure he has much room to move there. I think Pat saying there are grounds for challenge doesn’t reflect the reality of the situation.

Berm Bandit nails it. Bravo.

Cenbuterol has been used in some protein shakes etc, as a ‘cutting’ agent, it is supposed to promote lean muscle mass. However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It’s not like he’s got a weight problem, and it doesn’t have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I’m aware of – if it does please enlighten me.

If clen has negligible benefits to cycling performance, why is it banned?
He’s a professional athlete, he should know at all times what he’s putting into his body. I do not buy that he’s taken something by accident.

What is necessary is strong and clear leadership

We are screwed!!!

+1 for bermbandit too. It’s the same sort of farce that led people to label Ben Johnson a bad apple and not representative of what was/is going on in athletics.

Annoyed at the likes of Indurain, Valverde and Sanches coming out in support of Armstrong. The old arguments about why are these people coming forward now (subpoena under oath, knowing that the truth will eventually come out, and not wanting to go to jail for perjury perhaps… rather than just thinking about a good book deal!) And the supposed lack of “hard evidence” of a failed drugs test (I’d have thought those particular riders would be more than aware of how easy it is to avoid failing a drugs test.)

Kimmage, Millar and Berm Bandit for UCI takeover !

I just can’t see why Bertie would of taken it at all. He isn’t one for noshing down on too much sausage like Ullrich did. I agree that the most likely explanation was a blood transfusion, but he’d of used his own blood, and it still begs the question ‘why did he take the stuff in the first place’.

What is currently happening is scape-goating. The absolute reality is that if what is happening to LA is the right route, then you might as well write off all professional results for the last 30 years or so, perhaps longer.

I just can’t see why Bertie would of taken it at all.

Peer Pressure

noshing down on too much sausage like Ullrich

😯

think he means literal, not purple trumpet

“Omerta” …ha!…bunch of drama queens

You know it’s been peloton slang for many years, right?

Peleton….Sportive….Soigneurs …Omerta….. bunch of drama queens!

In the Panel’s opinion, on the basis of the evidence adduced the presence of clenbuterol was more likely caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food supplement.

Of course ! 🙄
If Contador’s team are so incompetent as to allow him to use supplements that they can’t absolutely vouch for, AND provide a sample for testing whwnever required to do so, then clearly nobody’s taking the sport seriously

incoming hora….?

Cav praises Rolf Aldag but forgets that Aldag doped throughout his career and only adimitted it when accused by Jef d’Hont. He stood by and said nothing as teammate Ulrich took on Werner Frank the German anti-dope expert and won in court (Frank later turned the tables when more evidence came to light). Aldag is very much part of the problem in the same way as Yates at Sky.