Kids smoking spliffs in cars – inform Police, or not?

soobalias – Member
so there appears to be a STW acceptance that thc can be in your system and not impacting your ability to drive (tjs call for impairment testing)

are you happy to apply that to drinking, to allow those who drink lots and regularly to legally drive with a higher blood/alcohol limit, or maybe to differentiate between those eating/drinking rather than just drinking?
will we apply the impairment testing to phone use, adjusting the radio, controlling kids in the back seat.

i just drove past a woman in a 4×4 with three kids in the back, should i report the car to the police as i suspect there might be a little driving without due care and attention.alcohol doesn’t remain in your system for a month. You’re missing the point. The 2 are not like for like comparable.

I have actually reported a group of lads before.

It was about 8am in the morning near the local BMX track. There were 4 of them in a bling Focus RS (brand new) all in tatty old tracksuits. They nearly crashed in to a car coming in to the carpark, opened the car doors and got out with spliffs in hand, and cans of special brew.

The Police were gratful for the phone call and dispatched a car straighr away.

But that was different, chances are the car was nicked.

alcohol doesn’t remain in your system for a month. You’re missing the point. The 2 are not like for like comparable.

Whilst it’s true benzodiazepines and cannabinoids can stay in your system for multiple weeks you have got to a be a pretty hardened user for this to be the case. For an occasional user its a few days. That’s the urine tests and are effectively a non negative result rather than a positive. The new generation of mouth swobs that have been around for the last year or so that are sent off analysis give a pretty accurate timeline of last use. So the best practise now by the military, prison service (and organisations that follow their protocol) is a urine for a non negative then a mouth swab for a timeline. Results take about 5 days to come back.

soobalias – I did wonder about that point re drunk driving.

No – I think we need a lowest common denominator point its just that I want to be sure people are impaired before they are prosecuted. Even under the alcohol limit you are impaired.

As things stand we risk prosecuting people from stoned driving when they are the equivalent of half a pint 12 hours ago.

As I said – I don’t condone any driving while impaired. I just want this to be evidence based and from my reading the evidence base is poor for a correlation between drug levels and impairment

As I said – I don’t condone any driving while impaired. I just want this to be evidence based and from my reading the evidence base is poor for a correlation between drug levels and impairment

Probably due to a combination of lack of evidence and the complexity. Alpin’s thread was quite informative though but again it lacks a test for impairedness which in itself could be highly subjective.
In some ways having worked in industries with testing policies there was a simple solution to is all of it though. If you took something chances were it would catch up with you. The testing went a lot further than just H&S in many places so the use of illegal drugs was also the issue.

walleater – Member
I don’t think I ever drove fast enough when stoned to cause a problem. Hell, the one time I couldn’t figure out how to make the car go backwards so just sat there….

and seriously you actually think this is fine? Just how normal people operate over a tonne of machinery responsibly? I think this fit’s any definition of dangerously impaired.

If I reported every car I see full of weed smoking teenagers when I go on night rides I’d be on first name terms with the local plod!

and seriously you actually think this is fine? Just how normal people operate over a tonne of machinery responsibly? I think this fit’s any definition of dangerously impaired.

One of the side-effects I’ve noticed with most habitual stoners I’ve interacted with seems to be a complete lack of self-awareness.

Whether or not the police will give an “Ertha Kitt” is their decision to make. It’s up to them to ascertain whether the youths in question are just having a bit of harmless fun or whether they’re Star Trekkin across the universe and only going forwards because they can’t find reverse.

and seriously you actually think this is fine? Just how normal people operate over a tonne of machinery responsibly? I think this fit’s any definition of dangerously impaired.

Well…..it was over 20 years go. It was probably around 2am on a weekday in rural Shropshire. No-one around for miles. I may have used some artistic licence but I do admit having to think for a short while on how to make the car go backwards…. FWIW, we didn’t plan on getting so battered. The joys of antiquated laws meaning that it’s possible to end up drinking whiskey rather than lager (in weed terms).

FWIW again, I’ve not smoked weed in around 10 years. I still think its morons that should be banned, rather than drugs. I smoked for 15 years I guess (I can’t remember ho ho ho….), and never had an incident when driving. I just drove slower and concentrated on my surroundings more. Not a bad thing eh? I don’t support driving after a spliff, but I do see way more stupid behaviour every day from sober people.

And people comparing weed to alcohol? Alcohol makes people do stupid stuff, take risks etc. Weed tends to just make people mellow.

That’s exactly what I used to tell myself when I’d be driving (or more accurately motorbiking) after a few drinks. I’m not sure you understand the concept of “impaired judgement”.

Scotroutes – the effects are different and on testing drivers who are stoned in controlled conditions they are not impaired until they are the equivalent of blotto! the problems is cannabis does affect concentration so again we just don’t know how affected they are in real life as would they concentrate that well in a real situation

this is why people who are stoned even very stoned can pass the usual impairment tests – walking a straight line etc. It does not affect your motor skills in the same way as alcohol and affects your judgement in different ways. YO don’t weave all over the road and drive too fast. YOu miss your turnings and forget to do things

Note I am not condoning getting stoned and driving – I am merely arguing for a sensible evidence based approach to banning and outlining the difficulties in doing so.

I’d be in favour of a legal limit of ganja in the blood stream for driving.

A spliff of mellow weed and you are OK, a blunt of Superskunk followed by 3 large bongs and you get a fine/points 😆

Caveat: I have not smoked weed in over ten years and when I did, I was only interested in munchies and tv/computer games.

Science https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/600655

Barely effects coordination, ask any gamer.

Might of been E-cigs they were smoking.

And as a complication – alcohol at legal levels mixed with small amounts of cannabis – even perhpas legal levels is a lethal combination – the two cross potentiating like alcohol and sedative prescription drugs.

Those who want a ban at any level( above minimal maybe) would you also want a ban for anyone driving after prescription drugs like antidepressants, night sedation, anti anxiety drugs, strong painkillers etc? all impair driving

Personally I would ban driving foe anyone taking a long list of prescription drugs and take their license away if caught

Barely effects coordination, ask any gamer.

Might of been E-cigs they were smoking.

I think that may be true up to a point, but smoke enough strong weed through a pipe or bong and you can’t do very much for about 45 minutes, except stare at a screen and fill your mouth with snacks. Not ideal for driving.

They nearly crashed in to a car coming in to the carpark, opened the car doors and got out with spliffs in hand, and cans of special brew.

In this case, yes I’d report them.

But I don’t think I’d report a car full of yoof hotboxing their car. Whilst there are issues with drug driving, as others have said the limit has gone from “can you stand up” to “can we detect anything in your system that might not be impairing you measurably”. I’m not comfortable with criminalising common actions, and to be honest whilst I often smell herbal smells coming from white vans and cars, none of these have ever been the drivers that have come close to running me off the road (and that’s happened plenty) – not scientific but from Friday last week the poorest drivers seem pretty shit, whether from having alcohol in their system or just being tired from the office christmas party I don’t really care, there’s been a marked difference from people having more booze.

If I reported every car I see full of weed smoking teenagers when I go on night rides I’d be on first name terms with the local plod!

So you are happy to go night riding on the roads with lots of potentially drug impaired drivers then? 😯

This just popped up on reddit:

http://www.psypost.org/2016/12/study-finds-traffic-fatalities-decline-states-medical-marijuana-laws-46652

States that enacted medical marijuana laws, on average, experienced reductions in traffic fatalities, according to a study by researchers at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. Overall, states that passed medical marijuana laws saw an 11 percent reduction in traffic fatalities, on average, after enacting the laws, and had 26 percent lower rates of traffic fatalities compared with states without the laws.

That’s probably down to people not driving due to being too stoned to get out of the chair and leave the house. I bet sales of tea and biscuits have gone through the roof in those states.

A study in the BMJ suggests cannabis use almost doubles the risk of a serious crash.

http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e536

So there is probably more danger from the fact they are young drivers than the fact they have had a spliff.

Drivers aged 17-19 only make up 1.5% of UK licence holders [1], but are involved in 9% of fatal and serious crashes where they are the driver

http://www.brake.org.uk/events/15-facts-a-resources/facts/488-young-drivers-the-hard-facts

On the other hand being drugged is another risk factor on top of being an inexperienced driver.

So on that basis I’d go with the report them option.

Want a spliff – don’t drive.

That’s probably down to people not driving due to being too stoned to get out of the chair and leave the house. I bet sales of tea and biscuits have gone through the roof in those states.

The other theory is that people get stoned not drunk and stoned is less risky.

Interestingly, researchers have also found that states that legalize medical marijuana have fewer fatal car crashes, largely because of a decline in drunk driving. In other words, people may be substituting marijuana for alcohol — and while it’s not advisable to drive under the influence of either — the net result, when it comes to traffic deaths, could be a reduction in harm because smoking pot raises the crash risk less than drinking does.

Stoned Driving Nearly Doubles the Risk of a Fatal Crash

Presumably the drivers got to drive to his/her friends home then their own.

That’s on the same roads as members of the public on bicycles, motorbikes and cars.

So that’s upto you if you want to call it in.

How do we know the driver was smoking?

Edit: But I wouldn’t and don’t. Probably don’t analyse it too much cos if I did i’d realise that logic would say I should…But my heart says not to.

So you are happy to go night riding on the roads with lots of potentially drug impaired drivers then?

No but then I’ve always assumed that many cars on the road at night are driven by drink impaired drivers (especially this time of year), and that’s a risk I reluctantly accept compared to the alternative of not riding my bike, so I don’t think weed smoking teenagers increase that risk by much. In the greater scheme of things I’d say drink-driving is still a much bigger danger and problem than drug-driving.

. In the greater scheme of things I’d say drink-driving is still a much bigger danger and problem than drug-driving.

Nobody is arguing. The question was report/don’t report the spliffed youths.

I’d report a suspect drunk driver. I’d report a suspect drugged driver.

I’d report a suspect drunk driver. I’d report a suspect drugged driver.

Why? You have to accept the risk and reporting one isn’t going isn’t going to reduce the risk in the greater scheme of things.

Report it. One of those idiots might kill a ped or cyclist or another driver. Even if the Police do nothing they will have a report against the car, which helps them to build up intelligence.

Why report a drunk driver? Hopefully so the police stop him before he kills someone.

Someone reported a drunk driver crossing the Erskine Bridge a few years back. When stopped in Dumbarton there was a bottle of vodka in the front seat and a garden hose in the back seat. This drunk driver had been on his way to park somewhere at LOch Lomond and commit suicide. I’m glad that person made the report. One life saved.

Every drunk driver stopped is a potential life saved. What other reason do you need?

Why report a drunk driver? Hopefully so the police stop him before he kills someone.

Read the post above your last one. 😉

Hopefully so the police stop him before he kills someone.

The cops already know where they go. If they wanted to stop them, all they’d have to do is take a 20 min drive around the usual spots up on the moors.

Making a huge generalisation but it is uusally driving too quickly/bravado/ /distraction/overconfidence that results in accidents.

I’m pretty sure that these are not the behaviours exibited by drivers who have had a spliff or two. They’re more likely to be driving at 15mph with their eyes pinned to the road scared that the huge hedgehogs will get them if they so much as wobble over the white line.

I’m pretty sure that these are not the behaviours exibited by drivers who have had a spliff or two. They’re more likely to be driving at 15mph with their eyes pinned to the road!!

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/does-marijuana-use-affect-driving

Making a huge generalisation but it is uusally driving too quickly/bravado/ /distraction/overconfidence that results in accidents.

I’m pretty sure that these are not the behaviours exibited by drivers who have had a spliff or two. They’re more likely to be driving at 15mph with their eyes pinned to the road scared that the huge hedgehogs will get them if they so much as wobble over the white line.

This is the stereotypical opinion of weed, but I have to say from being driven once by someone who was most definitely impaired, it’s not correct. We had one near miss that could have ended very badly which I still remember to this day despite a few years’ involvement in motorsport and consequent masses of experience of driver optimism/bravado.

Edit – I still wouldn’t report them though as I think the negatives of that would outweigh the positives, and the police would ignore it anyway unless they had a vendetta against one of the yoof already.

Sorry, I was being a bit tounge in cheek. I’d agree that driving under the influence of anything will impair judgement, thus increasing your likelihood of crashing etc.

Just what society needs – increased domestic surveillance – Stasi Track World ! – Because things aren’t nearly panopticonic enough right ?

Report them.

Driving under the influence of weed is just as bad as driving whilst under the influence of alcohol.

From the link Drac posted:

“Marijuana significantly impairs judgment, motor coordination, and reaction time, and studies have found a direct relationship between blood THC concentration and impaired driving ability”

&

“Marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently found in the blood of drivers who have been involved in accidents, including fatal ones9 Two large European studies found that drivers with THC in their blood were roughly twice as likely to be culpable for a fatal accident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol.10,11 However, the role played by marijuana in accidents is often unclear, because it can remain detectable in body fluids for days or even weeks after intoxication and because users frequently combine it with alcohol. Accident-involved drivers with THC in their blood, particularly higher levels, are three to seven times more likely to be responsible for the accident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. The risk associated with marijuana in combination with alcohol appears to be greater than that for either drug by itself.7”

References

So how many people were killed on the roads this year as a direct result of cannabis use, must be hundreds at least?

Edit – I still wouldn’t report them though as I think the negatives of that would outweigh the positives, and the police would ignore it anyway unless they had a vendetta against one of the yoof already.

No they don’t certainly not around here.

And the rest of that page that you didn’t copy and paste, mrlebowski:

a large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) found no significant increased crash risk attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers’ age, gender, race, and presence of alcohol.16

So cannabis on its own may not increase the risk of crashing a car.

Several meta-analyses of multiple studies found that the risk of being involved in an accident significantly increased after marijuana use12—in a few cases, the risk doubled or more than doubled.13–15

The rest of the paragraph you didn’t copy and paste glasgowdan.