Kettling

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/14/tuition-fee-protest-and-human-rights?INTCMP=SRCH

Yeah I saw that letter in the Guardian this morning, and whilst part of me is appalled by the heavy-handed/violent police tactics and the use of kettling/temporary imprisonment, I am very aware just how counter-productive all that is. Because whilst it might in the short-term solve a “problem”, long-term it is simply further radicalising students, school children, and very likely, their parents too. And also in this case, possibly even university professors.

So I struggle not to also feel a slight element of snug satisfaction. For far far too long imo, the British people have lacked any radical approach, preferring instead to meekly comply whilst they are being shafted. I reckon we are witnessing a fundamental change in that attitude. And it is to a great extent, thanks to this government of the very privileged, unprecedented assault on British society.

It’s just a shame that many will see the police as part of the problem, they are not, even if coppers themselves don’t realise it right now……..the police will not be exempt.

Here here 😕

Just seen this on BBC. Made me pretty angry, could the interviewer have been any more of a cock?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11993680

^No. Interviewee ftw. Dealing with the types of people who may spit in your face and strike you with a weapon then okay the use of force is understandable but hauling that boy out his chair. FFS, not necessary, surely a bit of common sense on the Police’s part would have been the call.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/this-has-left-me-speechless

Just seen that clip edsbike, the guy was bloody brilliant. Quite unbelievable the questions he was being asked, “did you throw anything at the police” FFS. Any interviewer who thinks that was a sensible question, really needs to find another job.

Agreed, don’t think he could have handled himself any better at all in the face of such idiotic questioning. Massive respect.

Choice quotes from poor little victims blog:

“People began running toward the far end of Parliament Square, and we followed.”
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_smile.gif
“Eventually, around 30 of us managed to break our way through into the Treasury.”

“However, we were out to ruin their plan. After shutting down an ITV reporter who tried to tell the country that “the police have begun to let people out”, a complete and utter lie, I was interviewed live by Sky News.”

“All of a sudden, the bicycle burst out of the crowd, rushing through the pair of armed police guarding the private road of the Treasury. A group of 200 followed, including me in my wheelchair, and Finlay pushing at full speed.”

“We continued down the sixty stone steps at the other end of the Treasury road without so much as a pause for breath. We were on the rampage.”

” The crowd was swaying. “They’re smashing the windows…” Me and Finlay looked at each other. We knew that we had to make it to the front. “

“Two policemen blocking a tiny door were soon brushed aside, and around fifty of us forced our way through before they had a chance to re-seal the entrance. It was an epic mission to the top. Nine floors; eighteen flights of stairs. Two friends carried my wheelchair, and I walked. We couldn’t give up now.”

🙄

Now, a quote from an independent photographer:

A series of shots taken during the afternoon of the latest student protest in London. The young man in the shots, Jody McIntyre claims he was assaulted by the police.
This claim relates to an event later in the evening, however, these shots show the way the police dealt with Mr McIntyre in the afternoon.
At the time these shots were taken the police were under a barrage of bricks, bottles and metal fence panels, as well as being involved in hand to hand fighting with the crowd.
Mr McIntyre was in the front row of the crowd and in a very precarious position, especially as he is wheelchair bound.
It was clear from my vantage point that the police moved him as gently as possible and in doing so the officers put themselves in personal danger from the hail of missiles.
Once he had been moved away from the front line to a safe distance, the officers sat him on a low level wall. Mr McIntyre got up and started arguing with an officer. He was so wound up that he eventually tried to strike an officer and was only stopped from doing this due to the intervention of a female passer-by.

stupid or not , the question needed to be asked imo.

The interviewer had clearly read his blog, which tells a different story to the one he’s trying to put out, so was pushing him to answer questions on that.

The guys an arsehole, using his disability to further himself as a professional revolutionary.

Now, a quote from an independent photographer:

“Quote” ratty ? A QUOTE ? We don’t want a “quote”.

He was a photographer …….he must have had a camera. We want PICTURES !

Pictures of this guy launching his vicious attack against the police……….where are they ??????

Choice quotes from poor little victims blog:

Yeah what you fail to mention is that those “choice quotes” which you have so laboriously culled out of context, are from different incidences, on different days, on even different months !

Here is an unedited version from his blog of that incident :

It wasn’t long before my qualms were settled. People began running toward the far end of Parliament Square, and we followed. As we got to the front of the crowd, it was clear that the police were desperate for violence. This does not come as a surprise; of course, it is the job of the police to protect the government. Nothing is a bigger threat to the government than the scenes we saw on the last student march of November 30th; thousands of students spontaneously marching across central London, without permission from the police, and not an ounce of violence. So how do they combat that threat? They attack us.

When we reached the front, the batons began to fly. One came landing straight onto my left shoulder, sending a sharp, shooting pain down my arm. Others were taking blows to the head. Children, women, men, all being brutalised by the police. Then the horses came, horses that could easily kill people, but we would not budge. We held our ground.

Suddenly, four policemen grabbed my shoulders and pulled me out of my wheelchair. My friends and younger brother struggled to pull me back, but were beaten away with batons. The police carried me away. Around five minutes later, my younger brother was also forced through, the wheelchair still in his hands.

A crowd of around 200 had by now gathered on the other side of the police lines. We turned, and began marching, running, in the opposite direction. Morale was high. Anger at the government was even higher. Kicks and punches were thrown as we passed the Department of Education.

Eventually, we found ourselves back at Parliament Square, this time approaching from the side of the now-infamous Millbank. Riot police came charging our way, but now they looked weak. Mounted police were just behind, waiting to charge.

Somehow, me and Finlay managed to weave our way through the police line. We found ourselves in a large no-mans-land, in between the riot police trying to stop the crowd, and the police horses getting ready to charge. I turned in my wheelchair to face the police. “Move out of the way!” one of the mounted police shouted at me. I shook my head.

From the corner of my eye, I spotted one of the policemen from the earlier incident. He recognised me immediately. Officer KF936 came charging towards me. Tipping the wheelchair to the side, he pushed me onto the concrete, before grabbing my arms and dragging me across the road. The crowd of 200 ran and surrounded him. I got back up and stood in front of the horses.

When I finally got home at 5am, exhausted but pleased at what can only be seen as a victory, I found that the picture of me being pulled from my wheelchair had been creating a bit of a storm online. But I am not the real victim. The real victims of yesterday are people like Alfie Meadows; a 20 year-old student who was rushed to hospital for emergency brain surgery after internal bleeding caused by police truncheons.

We need a change, and we need it now.

The interviewer had clearly read his blog, which tells a different story

It doesn’t tell a “different story”. Read it.

It doesn’t tell a “different story”. Read it.

The story he’s telling is of a poor innocent disabled man unable to move by himself was viciously attacked out of the blue by a police officer on two occasions.

His blog says he was obstructing police and is capable of climbing 18 flights of stairs unaided?

“Quote” ratty ? A QUOTE ? We don’t want a “quote”.

He was a photographer …….he must have had a camera. We want PICTURES !

Pictures of this guy launching his vicious attack against the police……….where are they ??????

Pictures of this guy launching his vicious attack against the police……….where are they ??????

Good point actually. Where are the pictures of this man ‘viciously attacking police’?

‘Ve vas only following orders….’

Yeah you’ve posted a picture of an extremely relaxed looking copper standing in front of a man with cerebral palsy…….what’s your point Andituk ?

I asked for “pictures of this guy launching his vicious attack”.

So where are they ?

Or are you suggesting that is it?

BTW, have you noticed that another copper has casually got his back to the whole “vicious” incident ? …….he doesn’t seem much bothered does he ?

Come on, this was apparently a professional photographer, I want at least pictures of him throwing stuff at the police. And you say that the “interviewer had clearly read his blog, which tells a different story” So where in his blog does he say he was ‘throwing things at the police’ ?

If you want smear someone, I suggest you produce some evidence 💡

Ernie, have you seen this:

The Tory cuts are the deepest.

Doesn’t really surprise me tbh.

Where did I say it said that?

There’s two photographs of the man with his arm raised and a witness account saying he had to be restrained from hitting a police officer. What evidence would you like? There’s no pictures of him throwing anything but nobody said he did?

Your mind seems to be made up, but to me there’s plenty to show he’s not telling the whole truth. He’s twisting the story and using his disability to further his cause, but then what else would you expect from a self proclaimed revolutionary who’s compared the events to Tiananmen Square.

Oh come on; you’ve seen the geezer interviewed on TV. Do you honestly think he is capable of launching a ‘vicious attack’ on a fit, able-bodied armoured riot copper?

Your denouncement of him betrays your own prejudiced agenda.

Vicious? Only Ernie used that word. There’s evidence that he took a swing at a cop though.

He admits himself that he was being obstructive and that he’s capable of climbing 18 flights of stairs, neither of which was the impression he was giving in his interview.

I’m not sure what agenda you think I have, I just think he’s making out as if he was completely innocent and was picked on because of his disability, which I don’t believe is true.

I just think he’s making out as if he was completely innocent and was picked on because of his disability

I don’t think he’s saying that at all. His disability is an issue, in relation to the level of force the police used. You seem to be suggesting, because the guy claimed he walked up the stairs of Millbank Tower, that he isn’t actually disabled?

I’m not sure what agenda you think I have

OK:

but then what else would you expect from a self proclaimed revolutionary

I’m not really sure what to expect form a self-proclaimed revolutionary, actually. Please, as you seem such an authority on such things, please enlighten me.

I’ll read it in’t morning. If I remember that is. Nighty night.

I’ve not suggested anything of the kind. If I didn’t believe he was disabled, why would I have specifically mentioned it? I believe he’s using his disability to further his own cause, as I said.

My point about the stairs is that he makes out as if he is defenceless and unable to move himself, when that’s clearly not the case.

My opinion is that he’s twisting the story and not telling the full facts.

That’s my opinion, you don’t have to agree, I’ve never claimed to be an expert, I’m not trying to smear anyone and I don’t have any agenda, I just dislike the way he’s gone about this whole incident.

Elfinsafety – Member

‘Ve vas only following orders….’

I believe, in internet terms, you lose. Any further comment from you is null and void on this topic.

All I want to know is what Tyres on that wheel chair for such awesome climbing ability?

‘Ve vas only following orders….’

I do hope you’re not making a predudiced and racist slight on the German people there 😉

Walking up 18 flights of stairs when you’re wheelchair bound ? Awesomeness 🙂

Perhaps he doth protest too much 🙂

I just feel reassured that there are still some police officers working to protect us from such vicious thugs like Jody McIntyre.
In the past I’ve been lucky enough to witness a similarly like-minded police officers protect us from an old man by repeatedly hitting him over the head,shoulders and stomach with a baton while he peacefully tried to move away from a police line, 5 policemen protect us from a lady lying on the ground by repeatedly kicking her instead of restraining her. Unfortunately I have also seen a policeman attack someone in a wheel chair (though I didn’t see why so maybe that was justified).
I thought that behaviour was a thing of the past.
After experiencing first hand,the unnecessary thuggery of some police officers towards passive protesters, my heart sank hearing some of the reports from some of the protesters and official police spokes people.

Some of the real victims in situations like this are the decent police officers who are genuinely trying to improve and help people and society. It would appear they have been given yet another backward step because of some vulgar thugs in uniform.

Andituk, regardless how you feel about people with disabilities, do you honestly think that the officers involved in hitting the chap in his wheel chair and dragging him along the road acted in the best way possible? They had no other option in dealing with the incident?

Some of the real victims in situations like this are the decent police officers who are genuinely trying to improve and help people and society. It would appear they have been given yet another backward step because of some vulgar thugs in uniform.

Some other real victims are the peaceful protesters who had their demonstration hijacked by subversives, fringe groups and idiots who got swept up by the mob mentality (many arrested had no previous).

The guys an arsehole, using his disability to further himself as a professional revolutionary.

+1 😕

There’s two photographs of the man with his arm raised and a witness account saying he had to be restrained from hitting a police officer. What evidence would you like?

Well not evidence of a guy with cerebral palsy remonstrating with a police officer. I was hoping of a picture of the guy attempting to assault an officer. After all, we are told that there was a professional photographer with a camera witnessing the whole event.

What you have posted clearly does not show that – there is no evidence of the copper taking any evasive or defensive action, he is in fact clearly relaxed. Or are you going to suggest that the guy with cerebral palsy was simply too fast for the copper and he didn’t have time to react ?

And why wasn’t he arrested for his riotous behaviour and attempting to assault a police officer ……..again, was he a bit too quick and managed to escape ?

He admits himself that he was being obstructive and that he’s capable of climbing 18 flights of stairs, neither of which was the impression he was giving in his interview.

Are you pretending to be stupid, or have you really never seen anyone with cerebral palsy before ? The “impression” I got when he was giving in his interview was “there is a man with cerebral palsy”. I had no reason to believe that he couldn’t walk, talk, or even throw something if he put his mind to it.

Have you seen someone with cerebral palsy walk ? It appears a torturous excise which is both slow and very badly coordinated. They can talk too, although again, it appears to be with great difficult. And yes, I’m sure that if they put their mind to it they can throw something as well, although I would be very surprised if it even remotely went near its intended target or travelled much more than a few inches.

The suggestion that someone with cerebral palsy could pose a threat to a fully kitted and armed riot police is utterly ludicrous. And anyone one notch above being an idiot, realises that.

a professional revolutionary……….a self proclaimed revolutionary

You seem to believe that being a “revolutionary” is sufficient grounds for the police to assault someone (irrespective of whether or not they are disabled) what sort of country do you actually think you live in Andituk ? Maybe the analogy with Tiananmen Square isn’t a bad one after all eh ?

A witness says he had to be held back by a female as he attempted to strike an officer, pictures accompanying the witness’s claims show him with his arm raised in front of a police officer being held by a female. If you choose not to believe that statement, then thats your choice. Why is the police officer standing so calmly? Perhaps because he’s being held back by the female, perhaps because he doesn’t think he’s going to come to any harm, perhaps because he’s in full protective equipment, make your own mind up, it seems you already have.

I’ve never said anyone was a threat, I’ve never justified anyone assaulting anyone else. I said I believe he is twisting his story, not telling the full truth and making out as if he was a defenceless victim, which there is plenty to suggest he isn’t as defenceless or innocent as he makes out.

I find the way he uses his disability when he claims to see himself as an equal offensive.

If he was fully able, well bodied person in full fitness, and the police moved him out of the way when he tried to obstuct them, would he be in the news? No.

He’s obviously an intelligent person doing all he can to get air time for what he sees as a revolution, fighting against some oppresive regime. Unlike Tiananmen Square, there were no tanks in westminster, no soldiers, and no one was killed.

Hey look, I managed to reply without calling you stupid or an idiot 😉

f he was fully able, well bodied person in full fitness, and the police moved him out of the way when he tried to obstuct them, would he be in the news? No.

It all depends on if the force is reasonable but clearly a disabled person is better able to get on the news. Plenty of film clips of other people being detained and hit but the more vulnerable the person the better the news value. He used this to his advantage.

reasonable force to some extent depends on the threat. If a 18 stone body-builder comes at you its reasonable to do almost anything. if a 6 stone little old lady swings her handbag reasonable force is clearly much less

The only point of contention here is was the force the officers used reasonable in the circumstances? They clearly were entitled to use reasonable force to remove him. However I do not believe that knocking him out of his wheelchair and dragging him across the road is reasonable. He could have been safely removed with much less force.

The suggestion that someone with cerebral palsy could pose a threat to a fully kitted and armed riot police is utterly ludicrous. And anyone one notch above being an idiot, realises that.

Depends what you call a threat Ernie. Obviously he’s not going to do a Bruce Lee impersonation (not intentionally anyway) but there is a chance he could potentially throw a decent punch. Why should a copper doing his job risk injury?

TJ
I’m a bit disappointed that you can make such an unequivocal statement without actually being there and having full knowledge of the circumstances!

unequivocal? Just my belief that it was unreasonable – clearly my only info is what is in the public domain.

I thought I outlined the point of debate fairly then gave my opinion.

Some of the real victims in situations like this are the decent police officers who are genuinely trying to improve and help people and society. It would appear they have been given yet another backward step because of some vulgar thugs in uniform.

If you were objective, you could substitute students and protestors for rozzers in that sentence.

Neither side has the moral high ground; there were thugs on both sides happy to have a ruck and cobblers to the reason they were there.

He could have been safely removed with much less force.

You should know better than that TJ given your employment history. I can think of a couple of instances quite recently (one of which involved someone with the same condition as the ‘victim’) where myself and others have had to use considerable reasonable force to move someone with a mental or physical disability in order to prevent injury to either parties.

I find the way he uses his disability when he claims to see himself as an equal offensive.

I can’t see he’s done that at all. Why don’t you watch the full interview ?

And the analogy with Tiananmen Square is perfectly reasonable, because according to you, just the fact that he is supposedly a “revolutionary” makes him a legitimate target. Whether he supports the system, or wants it replaced, is utterly irrelevant.

Hey look, I managed to reply without calling you stupid or an idiot

But you apparently couldn’t give an opinion without calling the guy an “arsehole”. It was on those grounds, that I reserved the right to ask you whether you were “pretending to be stupid”. A question which incidentally, you still haven’t answered.

Woody – thats my opinion. I am trained in control and restraint ( but obviously in a different way to cops)

Reasonable force can be considerable even injurious. I just think from what I have seen that was not reasonable in this case. My opinion. Others may have different opinions. Ultimately a jury will decide

He had to be held back by a female?

You mean the old granny holding his arm, who looks like she is holding him up as much as back?!

What a threat he must pose… 😆

I have watched the full interview, its quite long, he uses the air time given to him because he’s disabled and apparently an innocent victim to promote his political cause. I don’t believe an able bodied person would have had that opportunity.

I’ve never once said he was a legitimate target, I’ve never once mentioned justification, I’ve never once mentioned anything of the sort.

I’ve said, and I’ll say it again, that it is my opinion that he is twisting his story, and not being fully truthful in order to further his political cause. I stand by my opinion that he as an arsehole for doing so.

Am I pretending to be stupid? No, I’m claiming to have an opinion on a matter.