Joining the conservative party.

The country’s next PM is going to be chosen by party members, currently 100,000 people.

Democratic, hey?

They might change the rules to stop post brexit joiners voting, but if you’re wondering if there’s anything else you can do, it’s worth a pop for £2.09 a month.

pfft.
paying £3 to vote for Corbyn to carry on as Labour leader is much better VFM

Remind us, how many people voted for Gordon Brown to be Prime Minister?

Democratic, hey?

Reminder: this isn’t the USA, you elect the party, not its leader

true, cfh, but there are plenty of people who are wishing they’d been more politically active before the referendum, and wondering what they can to change things now. well over 3 million of them, anyway.

This is something.

zokes: reminder: Cameron has resigned, triggering a leadership contest. this will be voted on by members of the party. The winner will be PM.

After the parliamentary party have down-selected all the candidates to two.

So knock yourself out and join up 🙂

What nedrapier says

zokes: reminder: Cameron has resigned, triggering a leadership contest. this will be voted on by members of the party. The winner will be PM.

Yes, got that. Be my guest by all means, my choice would be that Jacob peas-hodge fellow.

But please don’t winge about the Westminster system being “undemocratic” when apparently it was Westminster in its current form that everyone wanted to have more power

zokes: reminder: Cameron has resigned, triggering a leadership contest. this will be voted on by members of the party. The winner will be PM.

Maybe in terms of our perception, but still not in terms of system. The winner remains the party to which we, as a nation, gave a majority in the last election. Internally, they can put at the helm whomever they want.

There’s not much anti-democratic in that.

Has anyone agreed to stand yet or is it too much of a poison chalices for anyone?

Has anyone agreed to stand yet or is it too much of a poison chalices for anyone?

Poison chalice & none of the cowards will man up!

Fair enough, points taken on machinations of a democratic system. As has been pointed out, EU is also democratic, but not enough for some.

Feel free to ignore the middle sentence of the OP.

And usually, you vote for your local representative on the basis of their party’s manifesto.

We have no clue on what basis the Tory party candidates will be campaigning. One of them might even stand on a “No to Article 50” ticket.

We have no clue on what basis the Tory party candidates will be campaigning. One of them might even stand on a “No to Article 50” ticket.

In which case, vote for him 😉

But seriously, in this situation I think we really need a general election. No one who was elected a year ago has a platform for what comes next. Given that the referendum is advisory, parliament will have to debate it. It only seems fair that the people debating it are those the electorate want to carry out that task, and have some idea of how they’d go about it.

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Remind us, how many people voted for Gordon Brown to be Prime Minister?

Democratic, hey?

When Brown took over, he pursued a broadly similiar manifesto and policies, whereas the Tory manifesto was in tatters even before this vote- whoever takes over will be plotting a new course. There’ll be very little continuity. And more importantly, he certainly wasn’t taking charge of negotiating our way out of the EU- and though we’ve voted to exit, nobody’s had any chance to vote on what that should look like.

The basic point is absolutely true but the situation is very different.

Joining the tories to try and mess with them and the democractic process is exactly as contemptible as when people wanted to do it to Labour- why would you want to sink to that level? The tittering arseholes who thought that was a good idea will still beat you with experience, and along the way you’ll have given up any moral stance you could have taken, and only learned more about how to be a ****.

Not that surprising that none of them have announced over the weekend really.

I think there will be lots of tactically worded nominations. May has been touted as a Remain favourite. I don’t think a mainstream leader can say that they won’t sign A50*. But if they do sign they can say what form our exit would take. There is leaving the EU and leaving the EU.

Remember that over 50% voted to leave it is just that the remain camp is now very noisy. Probably a lot of Tory voters voted to leave and it would probably be political suicide at the next GE to stay. However, there are some vocational not just career MPs and it isn’t impossible that someone will stand up and be counted for principles.

If we call a GE I can see smaller parties and independents standing on pro EU manifestos as they have less to lose.

When Brown took over, he pursued a broadly similiar manifesto and policies, whereas the Tory manifesto was in tatters even before this vote- whoever takes over will be plotting a new course. There’ll be very little continuity. And more importantly, he certainly wasn’t taking charge of negotiating our way out of the EU- and though we’ve voted to exit, nobody’s had any chance to vote on what that should look like.

The referendum was in the manifesto and with two possible outcomes it is reasonable to argue that people who voted them in knew they would be dealing with the outcome of said referendum which ever way it went. This is going to be a shit storm in any case so it is going to be very difficult to do from gonvernment/parliament point of view if things need to be passed by majorities. IT would be fascinating to watch if it was a political drama, as it is, it is just scary.

please don’t winge about the Westminster system being “undemocratic” when apparently it was Westminster in its current form that everyone wanted to have more power

INdeed

The winner remains the party to which we, as a nation, gave a majority in the last election. Internally, they can put at the helm whomever they want.

There’s not much anti-democratic in that.
By majority you mean more of us did not vote for them than did vote for them? and they got what % of the actual vote again- remind me. Can you imagine if the EU was “ruled” like this?
We then get a leader we did not vote for , did not know would stand and is taken from a list chosen by the MP’s. I can only imagine how we would describe this process were Europe to do this for its leader
Truthfully its barely democratic as CFH point on Brown showed – though of course he cannot bear to make this point about the Blue lot as principles only go so far 😉

jy, this was carefully worded to avoid your following objection. It still stands as it’s written.

the party to which we, as a nation, gave a majority in the last election

Just a thought: if we do have a General Election to decide the party to lead us through/round/away from leaving the EU, there’s a very real chance of an SNP coalition being formed with one of the main parties to keep us in.

I believe the MPs pick the top 2 candidates and the members make the final choice. My guess May vs Jonhson

Just a thought: if we do have a General Election to decide the party to lead us through/round/away from leaving the EU, there’s a very real chance of an SNP coalition being formed with one of the main parties to keep us in.

Which is exactiy why there won’t be a general election. As the Tories have a majority why on earth would they themselves call an election they might lose ?

As the Tories have a majority why on earth would they themselves call an election they might lose ?

Pressure/Legitimacy for their decisions. Also if they need to legislate on Brexit I bet they don’t have a majority as there are going to be rebellions left, right and centre.

I thought Stephen crabs had put himself forward

Pressure/Legitimacy for their decisions. Also if they need to legislate on Brexit I bet they don’t have a majority as there are going to be rebellions left, right and centre.

MP’s are pretty thick skinned. Legitimacy is Tories where elected on a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum. Rebellion, not sure there will be a lot of legislation required for the next year or so ?

As the Tories have a majority why on earth would they themselves call an election they might lose ?

To kick the Labour Party whilst it is down down deeper and down and get an even greater majority.
My twopence is on a general election.

But please don’t winge about the Westminster system being “undemocratic” when apparently it was Westminster in its current form that everyone wanted to have more power

Not ‘everyone’. The current government hasn’t really been too hot on the old democracy thing – keeping decisions out of the hands of the people we’ve elected to represent us by avoiding lawmaking processes being either debated or voted on by MPs

Leaving the EU wasn’t about more democracy – the EU isn’t undemocratic and EU laws need to be voted into effect by national governments – for the main campaigning party its about about more power and less democracy

To kick the Labour Party whilst it is down down deeper and down and get an even greater majority.
My twopence is on a general election.

You could be right but I wonder if they will risk it ? They are already good till 2020 assuming no internal meltdown

whereas the Tory manifesto was in tatters even before this vote- whoever takes over will be plotting a new course

Really?

Wasn’t the Conservative 2015 manifesto to:

Seems that taking action to respect the outcome of the referendum is entirely within the manifesto agreement

There is no democratic mandate for anything brexit-related, apart from arguably a complete severing of ties (obviously the most straightforward interpretation of “Leave the EU”). It is inconceivable IMO that the tories could impose any sort of associate membership EEA deal without another vote, be it election or take-it-or-leave-it referendum.

It is inconceivable IMO that the tories could impose any sort of associate membership EEA deal without another vote, be it election or take-it-or-leave-it referendum.

To be honest I am at a bit of a loss here with your use of the word inconceivable. The whole Leave campaign was based upon a renegotiation. I would say I’d be happy with another referendum on any new deal so I can vote against if I don’t like it

ninfan – Member

Seems that taking action to respect the outcome of the referendum is entirely within the manifesto agreement

I was referring to the manifesto as a whole there not just the referendum part. Sorry, I thought that was obvious in the context or I’d have expanded a bit to make it clearer.

The referendum question was to leave or remain. Nothing related to the nature of the leaving, nor did it give authority to anyone in particular to do the negotiating (now that Dave is on the way out). Certainly no mandate for an EEA association.

The whole Leave campaign was based upon a renegotiation.

Odd that. The voting slip that I was given asked a simple question about whether the UK “should remain a member of the EU or leave the EU”.

I didn’t see anything about renegotiation – why base a campaign on something that we were not voting on, or is this another part of rapid VL back-peddling? Quick scorch the evidence of what was said…..we didnt mean any of it

#fakecontrol

I’d be pretty unhappy about having a prime minister with such a blatant track record of fibbing.

We had a PM who lied just *once* a few years ago and we’re still dealing with the mess that left behind.

The referendum question was to leave or remain. Nothing related to the nature of the leaving, nor did it give authority to anyone in particular to do the negotiating (now that Dave is on the way out). Certainly no mandate for an EEA association.

@thecaptain our governments can do pretty much what they want, thats their mandate. Always has been. Repeatedly govenments have signed EU treaties with meaningful changes in our relationship and they did so without asking. Brown declined to join the euro without a Referendum for example.

It is not uncommon for these things to be ignored or repeated…

linky if picture doesn’the show

@thecaptain our governments can do pretty much what they want, thats their mandate. Always has been

That’s odd. Only a couple of days ago I recall being told our government can only do what Brussels wants.