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  • The Panama Papers.
  • jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Well I never…

    Panama Papers: Spy agencies widely used Mossack Fonseca to hide activities[/url]

    Intelligence agencies from several countries, including CIA intermediaries, have abundantly used the services of Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca to “conceal” their activities, German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) says, citing leaked documents.

    Both “secret agents and their informants have used the company’s services,” wrote the newspaper, which earlier this month published online materials based on 11.5 million documents from the Panamanian law firm. It has been called the largest leak on corruption in journalistic history.

    “Agents have set up shell companies to conceal their activities,” the Munich-based newspaper reported, adding that there are CIA mediators among them.

    According to SZ, Mossack Fonseca’s clients also included some of those involved in the so-called Iran-Contra affair, in which several Reagan administration officials secretly facilitated arms sales to Iran in the 1980s in order to secure the release of US hostages and fund Nicaragua’s Contra rebels.

    The Panama Papers also claim to reveal that some “former high-ranking officials of the intelligence services of Saudi Arabia, Colombia and Rwanda” are listed amongst the company’s clients. Among them was Sheikh Kamal Adham, the former Saudi intelligence chief, who according to SZ, was “one of the CIA’s key intermediaries in the 1970s” in the Middle East region.

    The Panama leak claims to expose the offshore holdings of 12 current and former world leaders and provides data on the financial activities of 128 other politicians and public officials from different countries. Newspapers around the globe had plenty of world leaders to choose from, – from President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko to King Salman of Saudi Arabia and the late father of British Prime Minister David Cameron.

    With high-profile figures on the menu, the majority of the international media rushed to accuse Vladimir Putin of corruption, even though neither he nor any members of his family were mentioned in the Panama Papers leak.

    Last week WikiLeaks tweeted that the US government and American hedge-fund billionaire George Soros allegedly funded the Papers to attack Putin. According to the international whistleblowing organization, the US government’s funding of such an attack appeared to be a serious blow to its integrity.

    One former CIA officer told RT that the fact that the Western media has been unanimously using the Russian leader as the “face” of the Panama Papers leak can be explained by one simple look at the organizations behind these news outlets.

    Everyone in corporate press is controlled by corporations that profit on wars and have an interest in creating tensions – all these people in the Western press, like the Guardian, are blackening Putin [for being] a designated villain here. Curiously, his name is not in these documents,” Ray McGovern said, adding that it was “a major mistake made by the leaker” to hand the documents over to the corporate media, instead of leaking them to trusted independent journalists.

    There were many raised eyebrows particularly over little mention of the exposed offshore dealings of UK Prime Minister David Cameron’s late father. Last week the British PM admitted that he benefited from shares in an offshore trust set up by his father. Cameron, who is facing outrage over revelations concerning his private finances, told ITV that he had received £300,000 (about $420,000) in inheritance from his father, who died in 2010. Yet he claimed that he didn’t know whether any of that money came from an offshore source. A massive protest gathered in front of PM David Cameron’s residence at 10 Downing Street on Sunday, calling for his resignation.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    …sloppy Jezza…

    Jesus…is this another one of those things you’re going to write over and over and over again because you think it sounds hilarious? He made a mistake with his tax return. If you’re going to label every person who’s done that “sloppy”…be my guest…you’re going to have to do it a lot. I’ve done it. I’ve even had a few fines over the years for late submitting. Not since I employed an accountant to do it of course. Maybe JC should employ one though maybe he felt that his stuff was simple enough not to need one. Who knows? What’s that verse from your book of fairy tales you like to quote every so often? Rob 15:3 or something?

    Hard to follow isn’t it?

    It’s as hard as you want to make it seem to suit your agenda. I dunno…we either take everybody at their word, or we believe none of them. Or we believe those to whose policies we’re wed the most. The third option seems to be what most people here seem to be doing.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    but he has made a false return which at best is not a great look!

    Well, as I’ve done that myself, I’ll take Rob 8:15 on that too.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    I reckon Offshore Dave is better myself.

    Corbs could do with Cameron’s podh accountants it seems!

    I suspect the headlines will instead focus on a dead celeb and the standard Tory MP and prostitute scandal, tho I’m not sure that qualifies as a scandal any more? – I suspect that depends on whether he’s an innie or an outie

    mefty
    Free Member

    There is a serious point though. Ignoring policy differences etc, as leader of the opposition you are expected to exhibit a measure of competence, Corbyn continues to make silly mistakes that bring this into question. He needs a decent PA whose advice he is willing to accept, warts and all, if he is going to deliver anything for his supporters. I am not sure he is thick skinned enough for that.

    EDIT: McDonnell seems a far more effective politician but isn’t regarded as such a nice bloke.

    konabunny
    Free Member

    One former CIA officer told RT that the fact that the Western media has been unanimously using the Russian leader as the “face” of the Panama Papers leak can be explained by one simple look at the organizations behind these news outlets.

    First of all, Russia Today is like all Russian state-funded media: terrible. It’s worth watching some of the late night doccos that get broadcast on the Russian language service, they’re simply abysmal sub-Daily Mail smear jobs.

    Secondly, it’s only the Russian media that is making out that Putin is the main target of the Panama Papers coverage. First, it was the Icelandic PM; then in the UK it’s been Cameron and in France it has been SocGen.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Corbyn continues to make silly mistakes that bring this into question.

    He needs some decent PR too. Maybe Dodgy Dave can give him some lessons after his week of gaffes.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Secondly, it’s only the Russian media that is making out that Putin…

    Did I hear right or did someone in Russia come out with the word “Putinophobia” shortly after the leaks were reported? 🙂

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    the standard Tory MP and prostitute scandal, tho I’m not sure that qualifies as a scandal any more?

    Bit OT, but do you mean this?

    mentioned it months back

    glad it’s coming into the limelight, as there is a significant conflict of interest…

    similar in many respects to a director of HSBC being Chair of the BBC trust[/url]

    Or Gideon’s mate being head of BBC News:

    Wonder how far in advance the insiders got wind of the Panama Papers and how long they had to spin bollocks publish the truth

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    If it turns out Corbyn has underpaid tax (£1,500 – £3000 ? We don’t know what his other pension is or tax code / tax taken at source) whether due to a simple error, lack of understanding or wilful omission (unlikley) then I don’t see how he can survive as leader. Even the Labour party isn’t daft enough to boot him out a month before the Scottish elections surely or maybe they just write him off.

    Hamilton. My money is on him being domiciled offshore for tax, ie in Monaco.

    konabunny
    Free Member

    The BBC didn’t break or know about the Panama Papers until the ICIJ broke the story. HTH

    Hamilton can’t be a non-dom (afaik) as he’s British and so are his parents…

    Everything you said there was utter bobbins

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @jive I am sure even you realise those posts are distracting nobody’s attention from the issue of the hour. I’d save them up for when there is even a slight chance someone will pay attention.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    mefty – Member

    There is a serious point though. Ignoring policy differences etc, as leader of the opposition you are expected to exhibit a measure of competence, Corbyn continues to make silly mistakes that bring this into question.

    Agree with this tbh. This slip, if it’s just the return itself rather than an actual tax error, is complete trivia; but it’ll be like every other trivial slip or slur, blown up to a million times its actual size and used to attack him. It’s all “questions asked” and “doubts raised”, and people like Ninfan able to pretend it’s proof he’s dodged tax. He needs to be doing all he can to avoid this stuff- it shouldn’t matter but it does.

    Aside; Corbyn does his own tax return, by hand, like a normal person. How much does Cameron pay someone to manage his tax? I think a lot of people will be sympathetic to that; nobody likes doing their tax return. But it’s still a **** up.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    If it turns out Corbyn has underpaid tax

    Itll be the biggest right-wing nut-job circle-jerk in recent history. Gotta put my hand up to that* too (though not “wilfully” – not that they gave a shit whether it was wilful or not) so again, I’m taking Lee 12:16 on that one.

    *not the circle jerk thing.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @Northwind well Corbyn could have saved the £100 fine and this “slip” could well finish his career. With a pension pot worth £1.6m / £50k pa he can afford the few hundred quid an accountant would have cost to do his return, or he could have just paid attention and got his almost trivially easy return correct himself. Very expensive mistake

    mefty
    Free Member

    Aside; Corbyn does his own tax return, by hand, like a normal person. How much does Cameron pay someone to manage his tax?

    I think most do it online now, but Cameron is using someone in Lincolnshire who is probably pretty cheap – it is not some big expensive London firm.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    @jive I am sure even you realise those posts are distracting nobody’s attention from the issue of the hour. I’d save them up for when there is even a slight chance someone will pay attention.

    Thank you for your sage advice Jamby, I doubt my message will ever have any impact…

    The BBC didn’t break or know about the Panama Papers until the ICIJ broke the story. HTH

    You know how there are press embargos n stuff when a new bike component is released… what are the chances there are similar procedures with vast matters of international importance?

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I think most do it online now,

    Aren’t there some who can only do paper returns for security reasons or has that been changed?

    I read an “interesting” analysis of Dodgy Dave’s figures from Jo Maugham QC who’s been pretty interesting this last week or so. He’s worth looking up for temperate opinion on the whole thing.

    mefty
    Free Member

    My money is on him being domiciled offshore for tax, ie in Monaco.

    I will take a bet that he is not domiciled in Monaco or Switzerland.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    It’s all “questions asked” and “doubts raised”, and people like Ninfan able to pretend it’s proof he’s dodged tax. He needs to be doing all he can to avoid this stuff- it shouldn’t matter but it does.

    It matters because it was them who made tax returns an issue. We both know what would have happened if Cameron or Osborne misses something off theirs, Live by the sword, die by the sword I am afraid.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    mefty – Member

    I think most do it online now, but Cameron is using someone in Lincolnshire who is probably pretty cheap – it is not some big expensive London firm.

    When I say “manage his tax” I don’t just mean “do the tax return”.

    mefty
    Free Member

    I read an “interesting” analysis of Dodgy Dave’s figures from Jo Maugham QC who’s been pretty interesting this last week or so. He’s worth looking up for temperate opinion on the whole thing.

    I read him as well and have for many years as he is a frequent contributor to the professional press. This is not one of his better articles unless he is privy to information that I am unaware. First, like many lawyers, he got the numbers wrong, the tax is £80,000. Second, he ignores the fact that Cameron is one of four children so they may have received amounts that would have taken the estate over the threshold.

    mefty
    Free Member

    When I say “manage his tax” I don’t just mean “do the tax return”.

    On the basis of his return, there ain’t a lot to manage.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    greek shipping magnets (sic)

    Useful for sticking a shopping list to the side of your shipping. Really, sometimes I almost regret blocking jambaliar.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    On the basis of his return, there ain’t a lot to manage.

    Politics of snobbery …?

    oldnpastit
    Full Member

    This slip, if it’s just the return itself rather than an actual tax error, is complete trivia; but it’ll be like every other trivial slip or slur, blown up to a million times its actual size and used to attack him

    It’s not a trivial slip. I manage, and I go to a lot of trouble to get it right because it’s important, as do millions of others.

    – Can’t submit on time – disorganized
    – Forgot to add his pensions – can’t read or understand something that’s key to how government works (the form is crystal clear)
    – Doesn’t submit on-line? Still living in 1979

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Jesus…is this another one of those things you’re going to write over and over and over again because you think it sounds hilarious? He made a mistake with his tax return. If you’re going to label every person who’s done that “sloppy”…be my guest…you’re going to have to do it a lot. I’ve done it. I’ve even had a few fines over the years for late submitting.

    Thanks for the offer but Deadly has a better ring to it than sloppy^2 and we don’t want to overuse it. It’s like pictures of posh people in their clubs. Only works once doesn’t it?

    Not since I employed an accountant to do it of course. Maybe JC should employ one though maybe he felt that his stuff was simple enough not to need one. Who knows?

    Maybe he should – as we can see he earns enough. But in his defence his tax issues are really simple, so no excuse really is there?

    It’s as hard as you want to make it seem to suit your agenda.

    I only found it as hard as Corbyn’s spokesman – do you think we have the same agenda?

    dunno…we either take everybody at their word, or we believe none of them.

    Or we could judge them on what they do rather than what they say – so sloppy seems to fit the bill perfectly, unless of course there is more to it.

    Honestly, millions of honest hard-working people find time to fill in their tax returns correctly. Some even trickle thier hard earned dosh down to an accountant to make sure it correct. Sounds like one rule for the ruling classes and one rule for the rest of us….shocking 😉

    I appreciate the nerve is a bit raw here dd, but if you can’t see the blatant hypocrisy in all this then….

    It’s John 8:7 for the relevant fairy tale by the way, and for a “made up” story ironically relevant to the contemporary version in more ways than one.

    At last the story is warming up – common Andy and Emma, nothing to fear but fear itself.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    ..Dodgy Dave….

    Jesus…is this another one of those things you’re going to write over and over and over again because you think it sounds hilarious? He made no mistakes with his tax return. If you’re going to label every person who’s done that “dodgy”…be my guest…you’re going to have to do it a lot. I’ve done it. I’ve even had no fines over the years for submitting on time. Especially, after I employed an accountant to do it of course. Maybe DC should sack his one though maybe he felt that his stuff was complex enough to need one. Who knows?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    I will take a bet that he is not domiciled in Monaco or Switzerland.

    £10 sent to you (or +gift aid a charity of your choice) if you can post here his arrangements

    @grum who knew Frankie Boyie was Tweeting about Corbyn ?

    I smell a rat as all the majors have no website profile for this story this morning

    oldnpastit
    Full Member

    I smell a rat as all the majors have no website profile for this story this morning

    The Telegraph (which I normally avoid because of it’s Daily Mailesque qualities) have something, but yes, how come it’s nowhere else to be found?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/12/jeremy-corbyn-admits-failing-to-include-state-pension-income-on/

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    You seem upset thm. You ok hun?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    I smell a rat as all the majors have no website profile for this story this morning

    We’ve covered this, it’s coz he not leading the out campaign for the EU, therefore the press barons who tell the right wingers what to think aren’t bothered about him at the moment.

    Also there’s less mileage in ‘old guy fills out his pension tax return form wrongly’

    Than ‘Uber privileged Etonian PM who claims tax dodging is immoral as he destroys the welfare state, lies about secret company exclusively for the world’s elite dodging taxes on his offshore stash’

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Fine thanks DD, and you?

    Having said I also have a raw nerve this morning with a touch of toothache. Trying turmeric as a miracle cure. I will let you know how it goes. Meanwhile, we can all enjoy the law of unintented consequences playing itself out in all it’s glory.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Why all the hysteria over a late tax return then? Plenty of hard working people do it late every year. They get fined. It’s hardly immoral is it? (Accepting the non-hysterical point that it’s not a great look.)

    Anyway, do we know whether he’s dodged any tax yet?

    kimbers
    Full Member
    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    You keep talking about this plant hysteria, can’t see it myself

    As I said, so far these returns are all rather dull despite all the attempts to create Hysteria a story.

    But so far how many people have actually made any kind of error with them? Does that make Sloppy more in tune with ordinary people?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Does that make Sloppy more in tune with ordinary people?

    That’s exactly it, while Cameron lives in an entirely different world from the rest of us, he may as well be an evil alien overlord

    Politicians don’t know the price of milk – but they do know how to set up a shell company

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Well thats clear, back to him being different on the basis of wealth. The circle is complete.

    It’s a rarified groups of aliens – Dodgy, Benn, Millibands – who knows what Burnham and Thornbury are scared of?

    But the rest of the media are ignoring it – prefering a minister being spanked and one party dealing with some anti-semitism.

    binners
    Full Member

    That Frankie Boyle piece is bang on! 😆

    A standard rhetorical pose on the left is that austerity is not economic but ideological. Is it an ideology? Isn’t that giving a bit too much credibility to a philosophy that amounts to: “I think we should take everybody else’s stuff”? Describing austerity as an ideology suggests that people like Osborne and Boris have a misguided faith in free-market principles that is simply too pure for this cruel world, when they’re actually two drinks away from robbing a charity box in a pub.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    THM you are missing the point, is about the wealthy minoriry running the country to the benefit of themselves.

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