Yes he needs to get his message across more effectively but as Dazh said going on the Today program and getting the same old “so I hear you’re a racist now” questions do not get a message across in any way.

And we’re back to Berger again. There’s one LibDem I hope wins her new seat. A reminder of how Corbyn not addressing issues, and answering questions, just because they are tricky, isn’t good for the Labour Party.

 and getting the same old “so I hear you’re a racist now” questions do not get a message across in any way.

This gets bought up because of two things 1. No party before has ever been investigated by the ECHR, like it as not, it’s a live news story that effects what people think of the Labour party and it’s leadership, by not addressing this head on, he (quite rightly IMO) faces accusations of hiding from questions about it. and 2. the news, as every fule no, is a 24 hour rolling beast, if he was on more, this would addressed, and everyone would move on to more current events. but as he’s never on the telly or radio, they would be derelict not to ask him about the Antisemitism that clouds his party at one of the few opportunities they get.

He has only himself to blame for this. How will he cope with difficult questions as prime minister if he can’t as the opposition leader?

That’s the world of the opposition leader, by vacating it, he hands the airwaves to the Tories.

Who also avoid the setpiece interviews. So it might be slightly more complicated than you claim.

Who also avoid the setpiece interviews.

Weird how that’s *not* a MSN conspiracy, but Labour avoiding them *is*.

Sure, I’m not saying I have all the answers, but I don’t think his absence on the telly is doing him any favours.

Also on a more personal note, my partner is Jewish. When I dropped her off on Wednesday for Yom Kippur service the news broke that 2 Jews had been murdered outside their schul in Germany. Far right fascism is on the rise all across Europe, and without indulging in too much hyperbole shes is on the front line. I’d very much like the leader of the party to whom I give money and my vote to answer the charge that currently he looks the other way when it’s inconvenient for him to act.

So yeah, get on the telly and tell us all that “you’re not a racist now”

Surely he would do better by visitng each voter, individually. The persoanl touch is so much more effective than meeting a small group of people. I can make next Thursday but my wife can only do Friday afternoon, better if it’s after 4 o’clock.

So yeah, get on the telly and tell us all that “you’re not a racist now”

I think he’s done that many times already hasn’t he? Doesn’t seem to cut through though because the news report what they judge the story to be, not what the story actually is. This isn’t exclusive to Corbyn, they do it with everyone else too, but Corbyn is an easy target. The reporting aspect has waned in favour of narrative and speculation. Peston is a great example, how many times do we see him postulating ‘theories’ about what might happen or has happened, only for him to be completely wrong. That’s not news, or even analysis, it’s just story telling. The politicians can either join in to gain air time, or they can do something more productive. It’s illustrative that the politicians we repeatedly see on the news are those who revel in the attention, like Jess Philips, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Anna Soubry, Chukka Umunna, Mark Francois etc.

my wife can only do Friday afternoon, better if it’s after 4 o’clock.

Fx:- OOB brushes off his best suit, dabs on some aftershave, combs his hair and makes a mental note to stop at the garage for some flowers on the way…

Corbyn is an easy target.

Which is not a desirable feature in a leader…

Which is not a desirable feature in a leader…

He’s an easy target because not only is the history around him a more interesting story than the usual rent-a-quote media-darling, but because he doesn’t play the game. Do we want political leaders who are frightened of the press and play their game, or someone who actually gets on with the job of engaging with voters and listening to their concerns? I know what I prefer, I’d rather he was talking to nurses in Newcastle than massaging the ego of Robert Peston.

I’d prefer a labour leader in No. 10 rather than Boris. Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll get what I’d prefer.

Weird how that’s *not* a MSN conspiracy, but Labour avoiding them *is*.

I am not sure what point you feel you were making?
That senior politicans have been tending to avoid setpiece interviews has been raised several times by various people. I think there are various pros and cons to why someone would choose not to engage.
The question at hand though is the other time dedicated outside of those setpiece interviews and also whether or not someone is accurately reported.
Corbyn for example did well in the election campaign when it was required to pay more attention to him and not do handy summaries of what he said.

I’d prefer a labour leader in No. 10 rather than Boris. Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll get what I’d prefer.

Becoming PM is not dependent on being the today programme or the ITV news all the time. If it is then we’re all f***** in any case and can stop worrying about it.

It’s illustrative that the politicians we repeatedly see on the news are those who revel in the attention, like Jess Philips, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Anna Soubry, Chukka Umunna, Mark Francois etc.

you could also argue that they’re filling the void left by more sensible politicians who won’t.

Becoming PM is not dependent on being the today programme or the ITV news all the time. If it is then we’re all f***** in any case and can stop worrying about it

No, but it is about getting your message out there and giving a clear view on the major topics of the day. And he simply doesn’t do that.

It goes back to the age old point, we have the most divided and divisive Tory government in recent memory who are trying to throw the country off a cliff and Labour are still not running away with any polls, many are in fact still showing the Tory’s still ahead. Blame who you want but if I was the leader of Labour right now I’d be ashamed of myself and would have checked out long ago.

not only is the history around him a more interesting story

Interesting isn’t always a good thing.

Interesting isn’t always a good thing.

I never said it was, it was just an explanation as to why the media report on him as they do.

and Labour are still not running away with any polls

Yes of course, it’s really very easy isn’t it. You should get yourself down Labour HQ and offer your services, I’m sure they’ll pay a premium to know what the secret formula is :-/

Yes of course, it’s really very easy isn’t it. You should get yourself down Labour HQ and offer your services, I’m sure they’ll pay a premium to know what the secret formula is :-/

Why? I’d be no use at all, I’m pretty good at my job but it isn’t my job to win an election, its Corbyn’s. He’s been in politics since the 70’s, 40 odd years of experience and he still doesn’t know how to make any headway against this incompetent Tory government. Surely you can see how he should be questioned for this?

He’s been in politics since the 70’s,

Present, but not involved.

You have to chuckle at the idea of resigning after he loses the next election.

Here’s a crazy idea, why not resign before the loss and let someone the voters rate *WIN* the next election…

It’s too late to replace him before the next election, sadly.

Actually… scratch that… it’s just “conventional thinking”… something unusual has to happen to shake up Labour’s election chances… why not try and hit an election with a brand new unproven leader? It would normally be madness… but something has to happen… these are crazy times politically. It’s down to him though, if he wants to stay on then realistically there is no way to replace him in time.

Surely you can see how he should be questioned for this?

Of course but poll ratings are not the only consideration. Quite frankly there are more important things to worry about, like holding the party together in the wake of brexit and the fundamental splits in both the party and it’s voters which could easily have torn it apart. The fact the labour party still exists as a party capable of winning an election is something of an achievement in these crazy times, and that’s largely been down to Corbyn.

It’s all very well saying things should be much better, but many forget that they could be much, much worse. And even despite the polls it’s very possible that labour could win. Given the choice between a truly radical and transformative labour party which is harder to elect, and a pale imitation of that with a better chance, I’d choose the former every time. Another centrist labour govt with very little ambition beyond being in power doesn’t interest me one iota. If it takes longer to get there, then so be it.

How utterly pathetic. You’d rather have Johnson for five years and all the damage of Brexit than have Labour stand for enough people for them to be in government? People like you are the problem. I don’t think that a Corbyn replacement even needs to move rightwards anyway, just widen the appeal of the party beyond people who chant his name. Lots of ways to do that, for a start we need someone who can appear competent and ready for office.

Fanatics always gonna fanat

Respect that answer Daz, don’t agree entirely but absolutely get it.

Given the choice between a truly radical and transformative labour party which is harder to elect, and a pale imitation of that with a better chance, I’d choose the former every time. Another centrist labour govt with very little ambition beyond being in power doesn’t interest me one iota

I guess the frustration from the perspective of someone who’s a centre-left remainer is that I feel there’s a whole mass of voters like me who Labour could hoover up with a few changes in policy and clearer Brexit stance. And those changes could get them into power. It doesn’t have to be Blairite or centrist, just a few concessions to those on the right of the left to drawn in some of those towards the centre ground. And by god do we need someone else in power right now.

As it stands if there was an election tomorrow I may well vote Labour but it would be in spite of Corbyn not because of him. With a different leader I feel they’d be in a different ballpark to The Torys.

How utterly pathetic.

Calm down man!

You’d rather have Johnson and Brexit then have Labour stand for enough people to be in government?

And where did I say that? I’ve said many times I couldn’t care less who the leader is, it’s a matter for the party democracy to decide that, and I’m not even a member. I do however want someone to fundamentally change the politics in this country towards a more egalitarian, sustainable and democratic system. Labour policies almost achieve that, but in truth they’re still not radical enough. I’d welcome a more radical leader that’s for certain, but I doubt that’s what all you Corbyn haters are talking about. Instead you’re thinking about a return to the insipid, uninspiring and completely ineffective policies of the likes of Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham.

Corbyn haters

And those who’ve waited years for him to come out from the shadows and inspire a nation. It’s not going to happen, is it? He and his fellow travellers may have done a great job of working the party machine, but their heights should be set higher. Johnson has got such an easy ride ahead, hasn’t he? So depressing. Still, the Labour Party still exists. That’s just great. Such a low bar for any party leader.

Corbyn haters

For the record, I don’t hate him. Hate is far to strong an emotion for the complete antipathy I have for him.

I do however think he’s the wrong leader and the wrong time. And that without him we’d be much less likely to have a Tory government next time and therefore less likely to have an extremely damaging Brexit.

And those who’ve waited years for him to come our from the shadows and inspire a nation.

You really thought that was going to happen? Even despite the evidence of the previous 40 years? If you think labour members voted for Corbyn because of his charismatic personality then you really don’t get it.

Well, if they elected him to avoid having to be in government, then job’s a good ‘un. I thought that he was chosen because he could move the party to the left, and inspire people to support him and it. If he isn’t up to that task, and the evidence suggests that to me, he’s a block on Labour getting a chance to make a difference in the lives of those that need them to be effective.

For the record, I don’t hate him.

And for the record I wasn’t really referring to you, but more the usual suspects on here who seem to be completely obsessed with him. 🙂

With a different leader I feel they’d be in a different ballpark to The Torys.

Depends on who it is. One thing for certain is that the blairites haven’t gone away. They will seize the first opportunity they get to return the party to the days of being in power but with no purpose beyond that. There are too many problems which are too important (climate change being the primary one) to go back to those days. Question for the anti-Corbynites, would you support someone like Pidcock with the same or even more radical policies?

completely obsessed with him

Time to disengage with a thread about Corbyn if commenting in it, on him, is being “obsessed”. Have fun folks. See you after the election. I will vote Labour, and if you’re in a seat where a Labour candidate is well placed to keep a Conservative candidate out of parliament, please vote Labour as well. Don’t be put off by the likes of @dazh … do whatever you can to get Johnson out of office. Don’t worry about Corbyn, he’s harmless really, and the chance of him getting a majority is just about zero anyway. This election is about stopping Johnson, he will not serve your interests, or the interests of anyone you care about. Get. Him. Out. Vote tactically if you must.

Another centrist labour govt with very little ambition beyond being in power doesn’t interest me one iota. If it takes longer to get there, then so be it.

Perfect is the enemy of good. I would far far rather have a left of centre Labour govt than the Tories every day of the week and twice on Sunday. As per most far left  you’re more interested and committed to a idealistically pure Labour than will 1, never happen in the way you want, and 2 will remain out of No.10 until the heat death of the sun. This country will never vote a party like that into power.

I thought that he was chosen because he could move the party to the left, and inspire people to support him and it.

Not even that IMO. You’re getting closer though. Essentially the election of Corbyn was the result of one thing, and that was a complete rejection and revulsion by party members of the morally bankrupt, unambitious, uninspiring and largely ineffective Blair and Brown governments, and the huge missed opportunity they represented. I know I’ll get flamed for ‘banging on about Iraq’, but try to understand the utter horror felt by grassroots labour supporters and members that their government, their MPs, and their PM could be responsible for a million deaths and collaboration with the likes of G.W. Bush and his ultra-right colonialists. Corbyn may not have been the best choice of leader in terms of his leadership skills, but he represented the complete and utter determination to never allow horrors like Iraq to be done in their name again. That’s why they won’t allow the blairites to regain control, even if it means waiting a bit longer to be back in government.

I would far far rather have a left of centre Labour govt than the Tories every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

And me too. But I’m also willing to risk a bit more or wait a bit longer for a much greater prize. It’s really not about ideological purity, but about solving intractable problems like climate change and wholescale poverty and inequality. The past 30 years of neoliberal economics and poltical inertia have made things much worse, and there is very little evidence that more of the same is going change the trajectory.

The fact the labour party still exists as a party capable of winning an election

They don’t. They might exist, but no way will they win as long as they keep repeating the same experiment.
Corbyn just doesn’t embrace the idea that interviews are pugilistic these days, which is fine, but if you want your message to get across, you need to be on that box in the corner of the room. If you can’t stand up to that and still push your message home you don’t deserve it.

As per most far left

Seriously? Labour’s policies are resolutely mainstream.

Seriously? Labour’s policies are resolutely mainstream.

The Overton Window has shifted so far to the right that simple things like having a state-owned railway are now seen as far left. It’s shifting back though, and this is why policies are important. Even out of power, radical policies shift the window in their direction. There’s a reason Johnson and the tories have abandoned austerity, it’s not because the debt has been reduced (it’s bigger now than ever!), but because it’s acceptable again, due largely in part because labour policies have more support than they did before.

state-owned railway are now seen as far left.

In what world? Anyone who looks at the history of the East coast line over the past ten years can see it’s not such a bad idea.

So at last dazh admits he is a lexit supporter, happy to let the far right burn down the house for the insurance money, just for the unlikely chance that pixies will rebuild it as a socialist utopia.