Jeremy Corbyn

People switching from Labour to UKIP clearly never understood what the Labour party represents

Not true original working class trade union Labour was anti EU and wasn’t very supportive of immigration. So people with those values will see UKIP as a natural move.

Labour is really 2 parties in one, the working class of the North and Wales and then the metropolitan studenty liberal left lot. Speaking in generals they maybe aligned on the NHS but they aren’t on the EU.

I don’t suppose there was a regional breakdown of voting in the Labour Leadership election? I’m wondering who the northern, anti-EU candidate was.

Corbyn and McDonnell are anti EU they just won’t fully admit it.

The EU stance of McDonnel and Corbyn is a really special and unique kind of bonkers.

They’re not bothered about access to the single market (I mean, why would you be?), in fact they’re hostile to it, but they then absolutely insist on unlimited freedom of movement.

Finger on the pulse of the mood of the country there chaps

Finger on the pulse of the mood of the country there chaps

Is that how policies should be decided? By that token maybe the Labour Party should stake out a position as the capital punishment party. Guaranteed vote winner.

But that’s politics, you either lead public opinion or you follow it – but there is nothing the voters dislike more than politicians sitting on the bloody fence

@binners is spot on. Corbyn and McDonnell’s stance makes absolutely no sense. They have always wanted out of the EU (with its anti state support rules) but they have painted themselves into a corner and regard “freedom of movement” as a badge of their anti-racism stance. It’s non-sensical. They’d have more credibility if they embraced a global immigration policy with equal access rights for all – clearly that can’t be complete freedom of movement so they get stucknas there has to be a limit or a visa system.

As above a by-election in Sellafield with a narrow majority over the Tories and which voted Leave is a perfect storm for them.

Is that how policies should be decided? By that token maybe the Labour Party should stake out a position as the capital punishment party. Guaranteed vote winner.

No. But the way that democracy works is that you map out a series of policies that will appeal to enough people to get you elected. What Laurel and Hardy have done is looked at the EU issue – the one through which everything else is presently judged – and cunningly concocted a policy that provides the worst of both worlds, and will appeal to precisely no-one. On account of it being completely bonkers!

Its quite an achievement. Never underestimate how truly unhinged the Peoples Front of Judea present labour leadership actually is

enough people to get you elected.

Don’t be silly, Binners. Jeremy has a mandate, and is a conviction politician. That’s far more important than actually ever being in government and being able to implement policies.

Far better to hold some placards and complain about lot.

Very true. You may lead the party to electoral armageddon by utterly rejecting the concerns of your core (ex)vote, but you can hold your head up high at the branch meeting of the Friends of Palestinian, one-armed, organic lesbian society, and all sing the red flag … comrade

And thats what matters.

Still need to find myself a bookie who’ll take my bet on Labour retaining less than 100 seats at the next election. At this rate its a dead cert!

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/81968/owen-smith-reveals-lots-death

Peoples Front of Judea

Do us a favour, binners, and leave that very old and unfunny joke behind in 2016. Make it your new year resolution to find something new and amusing to say.

I’d that the age of the joke is relevant here. When the Pythons parodied the left back then, it was because of the long history of left wing parties dividing like bacteria in a petri dish. It’s still funny because it’s still the same situation!

Oh come on. They really do scream out for the glaringly obvious comparison to be made though.

As a lifelong labour voter I think it’s an absolute tragedy what these muppets are doing – marching off into a self-indulgent electoral wasteland, at a point where the Labour Party has never been more needed – and I’ve got to the point where I have to laugh unless I’d cry.

Whether you like it or not, this is about as competent and electable as Corbyn and chums look at the moment. And theyre becoming more Python-esque by the week…

It was mildly amusing, in a predictable way, the first time you said it. Endless repetition doesn’t make it funnier. Or your added commentary more incisive.

I do apologise. All hail Reg eh?

Maybe we could all pay 10p and vote on whether the comparison is funny or not ?

Endless repetition doesn’t make it funnier.

Are you talking about the life of Brian reference, or the direction of the Labour Party in general there? 😀

When you get to the point of asking people not to take the piss out of your chosen messiah, it is time to go looking for a new one.

He’s not the Messiah…..

He’s a very naughty boy!

An old joke thats been endlessly repeated, and really isn’t funny any more? It’s almost like a metaphor….

😆

When you get to the point of asking people not to take the piss out of your chosen messiah, it is time to go looking for a new one.

I think CFH has it, there is no such thing as a new Messiah. There can be only one ? If he didn’t cut it he’s not the Messiah.

When you get to the point of asking people not to take the piss out of your chosen messiah, it is time to go looking for a new one.

I’m not doing that at all – just expressing the view that endless repetition of old Monty Python sketches is not funny any more, and hasn’t been for about twenty years. Corbyn offers great scope for piss-taking – surely you can come up with something a bit less boring?

We not doing ironing today then? The point i”m making, that shouldn’t really need explaining, is that Corbyn/the Messiah has, in the space of a mere twelve months, managed to perfectly replicate the exact same conditions within the Labour Party that John Cleese and the rest of the Pythons saw as so ripe for mockery at the end of the 70’s. with the same electoral results to follow shortly. Actually, it’ll be far worse, because as you’ve pointed out, it’s an old joke that didn’t need repeating

Yes. You said that. Over and over and over and over again. Maybe you’re right. Maybe you’re wrong. But you’re sure as hell boring.

Corbyn/the Messiah has, in the space of a mere twelve months, managed to perfectly replicate the exact same conditions within the Labour Party.

Binners nothing will change while this simplistic and frankly self-serving rationale exists. It’s clearly not all Corbyn’s fault. It’s a complex mix of the legacy of new labour, external economic and political forces, and the failure of successive labour leaders (including Corbyn) to come up with a strategy to transform the party into something relevant in the 21st century. Instead of shouting ‘it’s all his fault’, Corbyn’s critics could do worse than offer a positive alternative beyond the old 1997 cliches. I’ve yet to see or hear anything that suggests they have a clue as to what that is.

to come up with a strategy to transform the party into something relevant in the 21st century. Instead of shouting ‘it’s all his fault’, Corbyn’s critics could do worse than offer a positive alternative beyond the old 1997 cliches.

What’s the point, the membership wants him as leader, no much going to change that. One of the observations though for left sided parties across the world is more how they are more of a loose coalition of different groups. Managing them is like herding cats, after 18 years in the wilderness was simple for Blair, show a way to power. Once in they was not as much to complain about JC could vote against the government as much as he liked as there was a majority etc. They have not been starved enough to decide to play nicely together yet.

It’s not boring at all. Not in the slightest. As for repetition Binners must make make the comparison once every few weeks ? As someone who gave credibility to internationally recognised terorrist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah by describing them as friends and inviting them to Westminster drawing a parallel to a fictional Middle Eastern anti-government group seems highly relevant to me. Or maybe we shoud just call Corbyn’s Labour Party the London branch of Sinn Fein ?

It’s not boring at all. Not in the slightest. As for repetition Binners must make make the comparison once every few weeks ? As someone who gave credibility to internationally recognised terorrist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah by describing them as friends and inviting them to Westminster drawing a parallel to a fictional Middle Eastern anti-government group seems highly relevant to me. Or maybe we shoud just call Corbyn’s Labour Party the London branch of Sinn Fein ?

Quoting for prosperity.

As someone who gave credibility to internationally recognised terorrist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz………….

What’s the point, the membership wants him as leader, no much going to change that.

I’ve always seen Corbyn as a symptom rather than the cause of the malaise in the party. That malaise is evidenced perfectly by the inability of Corbyn’s opponents to find a credible candidate to put up against him. If Owen Smith and Angela Eagle were the best they could find, then it’s plainly ridiculous to suggest that all the party’s problems are the fault of Corbyn. For all his faults, Corbyn offered an alternative to the out-dated and failing new labour status quo which actually addressed member’s concerns. His opponents need to do the same. If they do, I’m pretty sure they won’t need to beat him, he’ll step aside of his own accord long before 2020.

Isn’t the problem now the ‘membership’ and the endlessly repeated ‘mandate’ they provide for Jezza?

Basically a ridiculously ill-conceived change to the electoral rules allowed the party to be rapidly colonised by interlopers, who are simply not representative of the broader labour movement,and certainly not of the electorate. Hence the present catastrophic polling, which gets worse by the week?

The tail is now well and truly wagging the dog, and the present rules mean there is no hope of change, even when (not if) the Labour Party is completely wiped out as a political force at the next election.

I expect that Mr Reed won’t be the last to tire of banging their heads against a barking mad lefty wall, and simply leave to find something less hopeless to do

Mandate my Ass…

Surely relying on the argument that the leadership of the Labour Party is an issue for the membership alone is to ignore Clause i of the party constitution.

(See also clause V regards formulation of policy)

Why all this “wiped out at the next election” stuff, there is plenty of time for the Tories to mess up particularly on Brexit and mess up the economy. If Corbyn can capture the public’s disatisfaction with tax avoidance, high pay for the few and jobs for ordinary working people in the north (UKIP voters?). He may start to bring things round, maybe even try for a bit of populism.

Well he’s had all those yawning open goals in front of him for the past 12 months. I see no signs that he’s ready to stop spooning it into row Z every time, just yet.

The bottom line is that he’s just an inept and totally ineffective politician. And the public can see that. Hence all those anonymous decades on the back benches.,There is absolutely no chance of coming back from poll ratings as awful as his.

Who do you think should replace him?

The immigration issue is just the most visible way in which the now totally London-centric Labour Party has totally lost touch with the concerns of its core northern voters in their post-industrial (former) heartlands, in favour of the issues that tend to trouble the metropolitan contributors to the Guardian letters page.

It’s been going on for a lot longer than Corbyn, but he, and the likes of Dianne Abbot, are the living embodiment of this disconnection. A lot of the time it feels like they’re telling working class voters off, or pitying the poor thickos, for not sharing they’re more enlightened cosmopolitan opinions. A real vote winner!

Yes, but the real problem is that without the welfare state and the public sector people would’ve just left these places and gone to the ones with jobs, as people did a century ago – and how they do it in places with no/little safety net. You’ve only to look at the depopulation in places like Detroit (well documented) to see what can happen. 1.8m to 700k in 60 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit

Consequently of course they feel let down by places like London, but then London/SE is full of people who use to live in the north (I went down first 1986-1988 and then again 1998-2012. So stop moaning and do something (positive) about it.

Basically a ridiculously ill-conceived change to the electoral rules allowed the party to be rapidly colonised by interlopers

And there is one of the answers to whether ‘it’s all Corbyn’s fault’. The change to the membership rules was brought in by blairites to water down the union influence in the wake of David M being beaten by his brother with the union block vote. Aside from that though, I just don’t see that it’s a weakness. Time will tell, and as THM says the labour party is as good at losing members as gaining them. But assuming these new members are for real then that’s a lot of new blood, new ideas and crucially new energy that could be effectively harnessed to win an election. Dismissing them all as student trots is just daft. Until MPs and the ‘grandees’ who think they own the party accept this, nothing will change Corbyn or not.

The leadership voting debacle was Ed’s gift, no ?