It may have hit the fan in Ukraine – passenger jet shot down

Recording of conversation (from Guardian piece liked above)

I find it difficult to believe they couldn’t or didn’t positively identify the target before firing.

Basically this.
Even a pissed up Russian conscript will have had basic training in using the weapon and if you have to point it at the object in question to fire it, you’ll have identified what that object is.
Wouldn’t you?

Listening to Samantha Power (U.S. Ambassador to UN) address the UN right now. She’s not exactly holding back – her finger is firmly pointing at Putin.

Hilary Clinton wasn’t exactly holding back either- way to go ladies 😉

this is where the designers of the system allow for the very real possibility of their high tech weapons falling into enemy hands…ISIS won’t be able to successfully fire US high-tech weapons, just the same as a pro-Russian rebel cannot fire a BUK missile without being allowed to do so by Russia.

If you were head of procurment, wouldn’t you consider it to constitute a major design flaw if someone left a back door open in your system that a smart enough enemy nation could utilise to neutralise your entire air defences at the flick of a switch?

Oh my giddy aunt! There are some crazy conspiracies going round about this one.
For example:
“This is part of the CIA’s covert operations meant to “turn the world against Russia”
“Is it really a coincidence that a controversial airliner shot down in a conflicted air zone right on the same day as Israel begins foot on the ground operation in Gaza ?”

Etc..

People eh? 🙄

Even if it was mistaken identity and they thought they were shooting down a ukrainian military plane, it’s still an act of terrorism.

I’d be surprised if a self-proclaimed army in uniform in open hostilities in a land war shooting down a marked military aircraft could be called terrorism.

(There is a special place in hell for any moron that says “one man’s terrorist”.

Any condemnation from the UK government yet? Or are Dave and George taking a moment to quietly reflect, once again, on the billions of dollars in dodgy Russian cash welcome overseas investment presently sloshing about being laundered in our nations glorious ask-no-questions and principled financial institutions?

“Is it really a coincidence that a controversial airliner shot down in a conflicted air zone right on the same day as Israel begins foot on the ground operation in Gaza ?”

No it’s not, but the causality is the other way around from what you suggest. The Israelis would doubtless have invaded anyway at some point – a snarling dog will eventually bite – but the airliner provides a convenient impetus to start now.

There is a special place in hell for any moron that says “one man’s terrorist”.

Then help us out by providing a logical definition of the word “terrorist” which doesn’t simply amount to ‘person we don’t like’.

trail_rat – Member

Its on the beebs site rich. Kiev requested changws to the approved flight plan on entry to their airspace.

And if for no other reason but that alone, the conspiracy theory is nonsense.

There is zero chance that Kiev deliberately diverted the plane so that it would be shot down. There would be no way that they could cover their tracks, the next day the BBC would be reporting it.

The alternatives in order of likelihood are imo : it was shot down by the rebels with or without Russian help because the thought it was a Kiev military plane, it was shot down by the Russians because they thought was a Kiev military plane, it was shot down by Kiev because they thought it was a Russian military plane, in all the cases it was clearly a mistake, and finally the least likely, no one shot it down and it was possible a terrorist bomb that happened to very coincidentally explode when it was over disputed territory. The last suggestion is obviously very unlikely but imo the fact that Malaysia Airlines have recently lost another plane in extremely suspicious circumstances adds a tiny bit of credence to it.

The was/is no conspiracy by any government.

Any condemnation from the UK government yet?

Who do you want them to condemn – person’s unknown ? Cameron has already done that by saying that those responsible “must be brought to account”.

Ernie, you make some sensible points there. You know the rules though, stop that.

you are right ernie but where the conspiracy starts is when they realised what they had done and they tried to cover it up.
Like you I do not for a second I do not think they meant to do this but the lack of admission is poor and the attempting to blame someone innocent even worse.

Junkyard – lazarus

The ones that still maintain some form of brain energy.

so you are not one then

You know where I stand on all issues related to zombie maggots. We are all zombie maggots with the exception that we don’t have BUK to mess with except messing with those brainwaves on STW forum. Yes, including you so just make sure your brain energy is 100%, which can be considered difficult to achieve considering that we are already born into this world as zombie maggots.

No, I don’t blame Dear Leader Putih at all. I doubt you can expect him to micro manage all his rogue zombie maggot commanders. Yes, he might have given the green light to support the militia but then the decision to pull the triggers are made by some half-wits zombie maggots with some brain energy on the ground.

The main issue here is those half-wits zombie maggots have just wiped the face of Dear Leader Putih on their backsides by making a fool out of his cool dude image (now face slightly brown – not cool man, not cool). I mean how can a cool dude like Dear Leader Putih let half-wits take charge of ground commands? If he is really a cool dude then none of this would happen because they would apply common sense.

So Dear Leader Putih you should cull them now especially the half-wits who pulled the triggers and the plane spotter(s) on the ground before they make you into a circus clown.

In the history of all Dear Leaders none would let half-wits zombie maggots make a fool out of Dear Leaders. Fact!

Do the right thing and cull them Dear Leader style, otherwise it is not cool man, not cool for shooting women, children, babies and unarmed civilians plane out of the sky.

Check the Youtube clip to identify the half-wit zombie maggot that made the comment that the passenger airline carried spies, this particular half-wit zombie maggot should be the first to be culled. He has the least brain energy. Waste of space.

🙄

Well said chewkw.

Thu ·

WE HAVE OUR FALSE FLAG EVENT!

MANY OF US KNEW SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. IN SEPTEMBER LAST YEAR I PREDICTED THE KITCHEN SINK WOULD BE THROWN AT PUTIN WHEN HE STOOD UP TO THE US FLEET & EFFECTIVELY SAVED SYRIA FROM THE SAME FATE IRAQ & LIBYA SUFFERED! THE PLAN TO DESTROY ALL OF ISRAEL’S ENEMIES MAY HAVE BEEN PUT ON HOLD BUT LOOK WHAT’S HAPPENED SINCE?

LET’S NOT FORGET THIS HAS COME AT A CONVENIENT TIME FOR THE ISRAELIS. THEY WANT TO WIPE THE PALESTINIANS OUT – PLAIN & SIMPLE! IF THE WORLD’S ATTENTION IS FOCUSED ELSEWHERE ALL THE BETTER TO CRACK ON WITH GENOCIDE! THE THING IS FOR ME THERE’S A GLARING COMMON DENOMINATOR WITH ALL THAT’S GOING ON – WE HAVE NETANYAHU THE ULTIMATE LUNATIC; THE NEW MAN IN CONTROL IN UKRAINE POROSHENKO IS A ZIONIST TOO & OF COURSE THE LIES WE’RE BEING TOLD IS BY THE MSM WHICH IS ZIONIST CONTROLLED!

AND WHAT OF THIS SCUMBAG POROSHENKO WHO ILLEGALLY SEIZED POWER IN UKRAINE & IN NO TIME SHOWED HE’S EVERY BIT AS RUTHLESS AS NETANYAHU KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS LEFT, RIGHT & CENTER? HE SAYS THE RUSSIANS DID IT & WE NOW HAVE TO TAKE THIS PIECE OF SHIT’S WORD FOR IT? DON’T THESE IDIOTS IN THE BBC, ITV & CHANNEL 4 NEWS KNOW THE LIES THEY’RE TELLING US COULD RESULT IN AN ICBM WIPING OUT LONDON OUT? THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING.

YET WITHOUT ANY INVESTIGATION THE MSM IS ALREADY POINTING AN ACCUSING FINGER AT RUSSIA BY FLAT OUT SAYING THEY MAY HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR DOWNING THIS MALAYSIAN PASSENGER PLANE! WHAT EARTHLY REASON WOULD RUSSIA HAVE TO DO THIS ESPECIALLY WHEN PUTIN KNOWS THE WEST IS TRYING TO GOAD HIM INTO A FIGHT?

I’M IN NO DOUBT – THE ZIONISTS ARE THE MOST EVIL, DELUDED MANIACS! THEY ARE A CANCER ON MANKIND BUT NOW, LARGELY THANKS TO THE INTERNET, THEY REALIZE THEY’RE LOSING THEIR GRIP. THEY ALSO KNOW THAT IF THIS HAPPENS, THE WORLD WILL QUICKLY DISCOVER THE GHASTLY TRUTH THAT THEY ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS! SO……… THEY WILL DO EVERYTHING & ANYTHING TO MAINTAIN THEIR STRANGLEHOLD……… EVEN BY ENCOURAGING WW III!

is this your attempt to look more detached from reality than Chewkw?

shit just got real trailhound

Is this a competition to post bollocks ?

At least chewkw treats his as an art form with an interesting use of words, not a raging rant with no redeemable qualities.

trailhound – Member

YET WITHOUT ANY INVESTIGATION THE MSM IS ALREADY POINTING AN ACCUSING FINGER AT RUSSIA BY FLAT OUT SAYING THEY MAY HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR DOWNING THIS MALAYSIAN PASSENGER PLANE! WHAT EARTHLY REASON WOULD RUSSIA HAVE TO DO THIS ESPECIALLY WHEN PUTIN KNOWS THE WEST IS TRYING TO GOAD HIM INTO A FIGHT?

FFS! Not Dear Leader Putih but rather his half-wit (even worst than normal zombie) zombie maggots commanders that are to blame. Yes, everyone points fingers at Dear Leader Putih but no way can he be the one giving the order to shoot civilian plane(s). Even past Dear Leaders would not give such an order. 🙄

edit: FFS! What’s with all the shouting … you need to breath if you shout like that. Breathhhhh … in …. out … in … out.

Still, I bet those 298 people will rest easy knowing they’ve given conspiracy bellends something fresh to be bellends about.

Junkyard – every Friday night is spent detached from reality for me! Do you know EXACTLY what’s going on re Russia/Ukraine/Israel/Palestine, of course you don’t, nor do any of us on here it’s all just our own opinions based on our political preferences, religion, upbringing, newspaper we read etc. and what we choose to believe. You could spend all night presenting “facts” to support any theory you wanted to. Fact is none of us actually know what the real deal is but as Kimbers says – the shit is getting real!

chewkw, what is it you find so compelling about Putin? His masculinity, his ripped physique? The man is a monumental arsehole of the highest order. He’s a control freak. Don’t make excuses for him.

says – shit is getting real!

How so?

Not me shouting, copied someone else’s post just to stir it up a bit, I have no idea who’s doing what, just feel bad so many innocent people are drawn into what are little more than power games 🙁

Do you know EXACTLY what’s going on re Russia/Ukraine/Israel/Palestine, of course you don’t, nor do any of us on here it’s all just our own opinions based on our political preferences, religion, upbringing, newspaper we read etc. and what we choose to believe.

I don’t claim to know everything but I am 100% certain that the Queen isn’t a lizard (despite being called Lizzie) and there isn’t a global Zionist conspiracy. I base these beliefs on a thing called “commonsense”, you ought to try it.

.

copied someone else’s post just to stir it up a bit

It’s always a good idea to “stir it up a bit” when there’s been a tragic event. Specially if you can blame it all on a “global Zionist conspiracy” :rolls eyes:

slowoldman – Member
chewkw, what is it you find so compelling about Putin?

As a counter balance to other superpowers. i.e. Power should not reside on one side only.

In fact power should be dispersed all over all with everyone having the ability to nuke each other to kingdom come.

His masculinity, his ripped physique?

I am not attracted to same gender I am afraid but he does know karate or judo and I would like to ask him if he like drinking warm bitter. Yes, a pint of warm bitter.

The man is a monumental arsehole of the highest order. He’s a control freak. Don’t make excuses for him.

Ya, that’s a good thing to be honest because I rather he controls his people like our young Dear Leader at North Korean, then having the burden on the entire world to feed them. Bear in mind, we already have some zombie maggots with zombie ideologies running wild in middle east and frankly I don’t need the extra burden.

For example, when is North Korea a nuisance to the world? When is Russia a problem to the world apart from Russia trying to recreate CCCP again and to refuse the so called Demoncracy? Who are we to say that they are wrong? Let their own people decide …

On the other hand if all adopt Demoncracy then all you have created is an even bigger problem with one single ideology that no one dares to counter. I don’t believe in this.

But shooting down unarmed civilian is not cool man, not cool … those half-wits that pulled the trigger Must be punished medieval Russian style.

🙄

You could spend all night presenting “facts” to support any theory you wanted to

I could not personally; I prefer to let the facts form my theory, you should try it.

I would like to ask him if he like drinking warm bitter.

If this is not a euphemism he does not drink

Junkyard – lazarus
I would like to ask him if he like drinking warm bitter.

If this is not a euphemism he does not drink

No euphemism there. I really like to see his comment on drinking traditional British warm bitter/ale whatever. I want to see his comments. Could be funny put it this way – good or bad. I have offered some of my friends from other part of the world a pint of warm bitter in the past and the expression on their face can be rather funny.

I mean it would be wrong to disrespect another culture/custom is it not? A powerful person like him cannot even compromise on drinking a pint with me? So if I happen to invite him for a pint of warm bitter in GeordieLand that is what I intend to do. I mean if I visit Russia I would not dare to offend him by not drinking vodka if he offers me even if I only consume alcohol once in every few months in GeordieLand.

In fact I would like to invite all the leaders/Dear Leaders of the world for a pint just to see what they say. Nothing I would like to change them and they should be as they are. 😀

Ernie has it; this is simply a devastating and shocking consequence of the confusion of war and allowing a bunch of steroid-crazed idiots to get control of sophisticated weapons. Substitute uranium for missile and you have the apocalypse that everybody has been dreading since the 1950s.

Putin is indeed a grade one areshole but he’s the strong leader reincarnation of Stalin, Gadaffi, Saddam, whoever you like. How many republics and ethnic groups would now be clamouring for independence if he wasn’t the president?

For example, when is North Korea a nuisance to the world?

You mean, other than when the kidnap Japanese and South Korean nationals from their home soil? Or maybe when they torpedo South Korean warships in territorial waters? Or possibly when constructing nuclear weapons and letting them off underground? Or maybe when building rockets that could put one of those warheads onto other people?

And that is apart from the Kims being completely bonkers and starving their own population to keep them cowed and suppressed.

How many republics and ethnic groups would now be clamouring for independence if he wasn’t the president?

I know that some people like to portray Putin as some sort of hated and mad dictator which, if only they could, the Russian people would like to rid themselves of, but the stark reality is that Putin has personal approval ratings which western leaders can only fantasize about.

This isn’t a recent phenomenon either, Putin’s personal approval ratings have consistently been far higher than any other major world leader.

And no, this isn’t based on dodgy Russian state polls, it’s based on reliable independent polls which the western media recognizes as such.

Putin’s Approval Rating Reaches Record High in Russia[/url]

Why Putin Is in Trouble With 86% Approval

Vladimir Putin’s Approval Rating Is Still Higher Than It’s Been In A Long Time[/url]

Can anyone imagine Obama, Cameron, or Hollande, enjoying approval ratings over 80% ?

Russian elections might be corrupt but that goes back to Boris Yeltsin, the corrupt alcoholic which the West approved of so much. Unlike Yeltsin Putin doesn’t actually need to fix election results.

Putin does indeed preside over a repressive administration, there’s no doubt about that, but it’s almost certainly less corrupt than Yeltsin’s was, or the Ukraine is today. And much of the repressive nature of his administration meets with public approval, in fact when it comes to gay rights opinion polls show that the Russian public is more homophobic than the government.

Some people need to accept that many Russian are unimpressed by the west, and hard as it might be for them to understand many ethic Russians in Ukraine don’t want to be part of the EU and NATO, they feel closer ties with Putin’s Russia with which they have cultural links and which provides them businesses opportunities and livelihoods, unbelievable eh ?

Haven’t read all of this thread but while the conspiracy theories abound don’t lose sight of the fact that on top of the huge personal tragedy for all those involved, it now looks like up to 100 of the victims were delegates heading for a huge AIDS conference in Australia.

“This will have ramifications globally because whenever you lose a leader in any field, it has an impact. That knowledge is irreplaceable.

We’ve lost global leaders and also some bright young people who were coming through. It’s a gut-wrenching loss.”

The death of Joep Lange, a leading researcher into anti HIV drugs, has been extensively reported. The victims will also include activists, administrators and reporters who influence governments to change policies and improve research into and treatment of all sorts of potentially horrendous epidemics.

In a world were we are faced with increasing concerns about infection and drug resistance, this has ramifications for all of us, conspiracy theorists, zombie maggots, humans of all species.

Forgive the goodwin but Hitler also won elections,
You can be a baddy and still be popular with your electorate.
Slobodan Miloševi? committed genocide and won elections on a number of occasions.
There are other examples if you really want them.
Being popular does not mean you are not a baddy willing to cover up ethnic russians , you arm, shooting down a civilian plane whilst you try to annex yet more of the country of Ukraine.
Why the difference here between your attitude on Israel and Russia? I do not see that much difference tbh in tactics being used.
He is popular no one can deny it
Israel policies are popular with [many] Israelis but they are equally morally wrong.

The intellectual firepower in this thread has sent it waaaay over my head.

No pun intended.

I’ve had a think.

Has anyone considered it could be the drug companies?

The flight was apparently only at 300m, making it an easy target (well, as easy as something flying at 500mph can be).

Onboard were 100 AIDS researchers.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a cure for AIDS is just around the corner, thus meaning that drug companies will lose millions they currently make on selling ‘make comfortable’ drugs?

Is this suitably far-fetched?

It’s extremely sad that 100 aids experts are dead. Are the other dead less sad? I think not. RIP all who died

I think this may be a new low in STW threads. Some of you should be ashamed.

that is all…

Apologies for interrupting the lunatic conspiracies with some facts but here is a link to official page from Ukraine’s MOD denying separatists have their hands on SAM launchers (in Ukrainian, use Google to translate)

http://www.mil.gov.ua/news/2014/06/30/teroristi-ne-zahoplyuvali-bojovu-tehniku-chastin-protipovitryanoi-oboroni-zbrojnih-sil-ukraini-v-doneczku/

If true and not an attempt at face-saving this leaves only two potential actors – Russia (either from their territory of by supplying rebels) and Ukraine.

Sorry for the interruptions, please disregard these facts if you believe in conspiracies and carry on.

Given they have shot down planes and helicopters no one can seriously doubt the [ rebles/ethnic russians/whatever we are calling them] have the capability to do it.

Junkyard – we’re talking specific SAM launchers here, the self-propelling kind.