[Closed] Is the UK a Christian Country?

I agree with you, but at the same time, it's more christian than it is muslim.

He's obviously oblivious of whats happened in this country over the past (quite a few) years

either that or he's a clueless moron.

[i]it's more christian than it is muslim [/i]

For now.

Is it more non-believer than it is christian? Are ther more christians than all other faiths or beliefs put together?

I think that there is a little more nuance to it but ultimately I guess your suggestion is right.

Lot's of people will give their 'deomination' as christian even if they aren't practising. I think the figures for people who attend church regularly is something like 13% or thereabouts.

How apt that David should share this today.

Describing himself as a [b]"committed" but only "vaguely practising" [/b]Christian, the PM[b] admitted he was "full of doubts" about big theological issues[/b].

David Cameron, politician

religion is [i]"violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry",[/i]

Christopher Hitchens, thinker

Irrespective of my personal beliefs, give me a bit of commitment over the wishy-washy fence sitting bs anyday.

It certainly is and should not be forgotten

If it isn't one, that Hitchens fella will tell us so. If he keeps quiet, then it must be.

esselgruntfuttock - Member
it's more christian than it is muslim

For now.

troll?

If not, how much do you think things could have changed in 10 years?

72% of the population (41m) identified themselves as Christians in the 2001 census. Almost 3% identified themselves as Muslims.

15% said no religion
8% didn't answer the question

Not in my house it isn't.

I'm with Hitchens and Dawkins.

slainte ➡ rob

I think it is but to me its more of a cultural thing than pure religion or theology. To me Eurpoe = christian. I expect an Arab to be a muslim and a Chinese a buddhist etc and find the whole concept of conversion quite wrong. Clearly all religions are equally dima nd only existed at all as a means of control and prhaps explaining stuff that science now can explain so in a modern world there is no need for it at all.

I live next to a mosque and enjoy the multi culteralism we have but at our core we are christian. That said none of it bothers me much. Apart from zealots and other people that try to claim their religion is right or best because that is wholly illogical IMO.

Strange how failing politicians turn to religion when all else fails, tony bliars name comes to mind.

I also wonder what religion worships at the out of town shopping centres every sunday.

I'm not, and so isn't my wife.

I have now read the article in full and can confidently confirm that he is a buffoon of the highest order. Carry on as your were.

Go on then haterz - explain to me exactly what he said in that article is wrong and why.

^How about this bit?

"the tolerance that Christianity demands of our society provides greater space for other religious faiths too"

Most of the serious Christians I know think Islam is a competitor, and wrong, and have no idea that it's really the same as Christianity. I don't think this is due to being Christians, rather they are ignorant pricks who happen to be Christian.

I don't think of it as one, but I recognise there are many Christians (as well as other religions) in it who have a say about the the UK's values (although I still think anyone who believes religion is bonkers).

WGAF? come up with you own ideas and thoughts and follow them. no need for a government to tell you how to pour milk properly. I've killed 3 rabbits and a tarantula today.

Before people get the wrong end of the stick, I am not against any religion. People can have faith in whatever t hey want to have faith in as far as I'm concerned. Religion and politics should never meet though.

What's the preceding para say, Rob?

Religion and politics should never meet though.

But they do. Live with it. At the level it happens in this country it's not like it's an awful thing. If we lived in the US you might have a point.

Most of the serious Christians I know think Islam is a competitor, and wrong, and don't see how it's really the same as Christianity. I don't think this is due to being Christians, rather they are ignorant pricks who happen to be Christian.

Not sure how you work that one out, it's definitely a serious competitor, and wrong. Where they get it wrong is in thinking that christianity is right.

"What's the preceding para say, Rob? "

You mean this?

"Many people tell me it is much easier to be Jewish or Muslim here in Britain than it is in a secular country like France," he said.

Not sure that's down to

"the tolerance that Christianity demands of our society"

i find the assertion christianity has a monopoly on a certain set of values pretty stupid.

The monarcb is the Defender of the Faith, yes, christianity is still the 'official' religion of the UK. Church of England to be axact, courtesy of Henry VIII, before him it was a catholic country, but he wanted to divorce (Catherine of Aragon I think), catholicism did not permit divorce so HVIII flipped Rome the bird and started his own branch of christianity, and here we are now.

SBZ are you just trying to wind people up tonight?
Or do you always try and pick contentious subjects? Like [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rough-justice ]HERE[/url] You've deliberately tried to wind up another forum member this eve. [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/is-there-a-jhw-fantasy-thread-forthcoming ]OR HERE[/url]

religion and politics are not quite the same thing but follow a similar agenda. Belief and control.

Not sure that's down to

In your opinion - I hardly think that because his opinion differs from yours that justifies calling him a buffoon (I know those weren't your words, but they were the words I was asking for justification for).

Here come the Angry Atheists again. Duller and more fundamental than a religious fundamentalist.

SBZ are you just trying to wind people up tonight?
Or do you always try and pick contentious subjects?

Been here long, bigyinn? Heard of Trolling Zoo Fighter, smee, glupton etc.?

esselgrunts trolling,no one is that stupid!

i find daves waffle offensive
religion is an anachronism, jesus ! homosexuality was ilegal 50 years ago we're still struggling with the legacy of so many repressive inhibitions from some ancient ramblings invented to subjugate society.
the bible has to be 'interpreted' to ignore all the slavery, murder, sexism, racism, prejudice and general nastiness
and the history of science is pretty much a battle with religious ignorance.
I dont need to be told that murder is a sin by institutions that have spent the last 50 years systematically covering up the worlds biggest paedophile rings

the sooner that we evolve out of the need for this psychological crutch the better we will be

i do like old churches though!

Here come the Angry Atheists again

Except that I would (and did) argue that atheists have reasonable cause to be angry about some things - see which side I'm arguing here (and that's not [b]just[/b] because I like being contrary).

"Not sure how you work that one out, it's definitely a serious competitor, and wrong. Where they get it wrong is in thinking that christianity is right."

Both have the same root, which they don't follow. If your religion is based on another religion which you don't believe in your religion has no foundation. If it did you'd go for the original religion. Surely?

How I work out they're not competitors is that they both picked bits they liked from Judaism (which probably picked bits from something else) and made up some other bits and called it "right".

So are they not both as wrong as each other. The same thing???

Not trolling. Simply like to start discussions on articles or videos that I think are quite controversial. It's good to use STW as a barometer sometimes.

No one realy knows at the end of the day, stats are stats and as such are usually a load of b*ll*cks anyway, but to be fair, religion plays very little part to most peoples lives these days (unless you are above a certain age) the general consensus is that its so outdated its quite laughable and quite frankly a load of b*ll*cks to boot. So to sum it up: load of b*ll*cks 😛

"In your opinion - I hardly think that because his opinion differs from yours that justifies calling him a buffoon (I know those weren't your words, but they were the words I was asking for justification for)."

I'm pretty sure there are Christian countries out there that aren't as tolerant as the UK, therefore it's not the Christianity that makes them tolerant. My point here being that out of the however many countries there are religion isn't necessarily the main factor in the tolerance level enjoyed, but other social aspects could play a very large part. As religion is on the decline in Britain it may be other aspects that are more largely responsible for our "tolerant" society?

EDIT: And re the buffoon thing. DC knows he has to used a measured approach in EVERYTHING he says. I, you, she etc. might think he's a cockbag, but I always have some level of respect for anyone leading our country as I just can't get my head around how they handle not going postal and screaming at everyone to just **** off when they've got a seriously stressful job - which he WILL be trying to do to the best of his ability whilst all the while getting criticised and monitored for every little thing he says and having to have an opinion on every little thing that he quite possible couldn't give a shit about, but has to answer the nice peoples' questions otherwise he'll be dogged by the press and never be left to get on with what he's supposed to be doing.

EDIT 2: Self scoring a 7.3/10 for that 🙂

Religion is pretty much like smoking...theres no need for it, its pretty disgusting and inevitably leads to harm.

WGAF x2
Saying that the UK is a Christian country means FA. It doesn't change the people in it, their choices or how they behave. It's like suddenly calling my dog dave. Still the same dog.

Surrounded By Zulus - Member

Not trolling. Simply like to start discussions on articles or videos that I think are quite controversial.

[b]From da rulz[/b]

No posts which in the opinion of the moderators are solely intended to, or are likely to provoke or abuse any individual or group.

Both have the same root, which they don't follow. If your religion is based on another religion which you don't believe in your religion has no foundation. If it did you'd go for the original religion. Surely?

I doubt muslims think their religion is "based on another religion" - it's the word revealed to their prophet. Christians might agree that christianity is "based on" judaism, I suppose...

No posts which in [b][i]the opinion of the moderators[/b][/i] are solely intended to, or are likely to provoke or abuse any individual or group.

This is the key thing. The opinion changes, depending on wether it's grown up teh mods or tellytubby teh mods.

yes we are all deeply devout hell even I went to church today and it was not for a funeral or wedding or anything

if you had to push people on it alot would say they believed in a god or gods.

believing in little baby jesus is a totally different matter.

I do feel like killing someone, who shall we kill? I mean we have to kill someone, I've got a big stick, I'm a bit confused....

hopefully on a huge plot of oil. WOO-YAY! just religionify it to make it "right"

"I doubt muslims think their religion is "based on another religion" - it's the word revealed to their prophet. Christians might agree that christianity is "based on" judaism, I suppose..."

These would be Muslims who aren't aware that Islam is rooted in Judaism then. Both Islam & Christianity trace back to Abraham.

the general consensus is that its so outdated its quite laughable

The general consensus in your head? Amongst your mates? On the STW forum? Because I'm fairly sure it's not the general consensus amongst the population at large.

[i]esselgrunts trolling,no one is that stupid![/i]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html

I don't usually do a TJ & don't normally read much news or media TBH, & don't even know how much of this item is true/untrue.
Don't troll either. can't be arsed.

[img] [/img]

Nick Cave has not won a boxing tournament.

"the general consensus is that its so outdated its quite laughable"

If it was right then, it'll be right now? Don't think there's a shelf-life on beliefs.

These would be Muslims who aren't aware that Islam is rooted in Judaism then. Both Islam & Christianity trace back to Abraham.

Don't get me wrong: I personally don't doubt that islam is rooted in the religious "landscape" around when it was born - including judaism - but I'd be very surprised to find a practising muslim saying their religion is based on another.

Nick Cave has not won a boxing tournament.

I haven't read the thread but that is quite beautiful

"the tolerance that Christianity demands of our society provides greater space for other religious faiths too"

actually the bible says unless you except Jesus as you lord and saviour you will go to hell, to fundamentalist Christian being a Muslim is the same as worshipping the devil.

"I'd be very surprised to find a practising muslim saying their religion is based on another."

Sounds like a challenge!

*Dons special Muslim hunting outfit*

From: http://answering-islam.org/Green/onbible.htm

The Qur'an teaches that Islam is the continued faithful religion in the same line as the Prophets who were before Muhammad: The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah ... and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (42:13 AYA). The result of this view is that the scriptures given by these Prophets are considered to be genuine scriptures from God: But say, "We (Muslims) believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you (Jews & Christians); our Allah and your Allah is One" (29:46 AYA).

Rob - where were you on my angry atheists thread? I'm sure you could have contributed something there 😉

OK so tell me why religion is NOT outdated then? If people still take the bible to be a good or true reflection of modern life, I find that incredibly hard to believe and also quite unerving!

I probably should have put 'the general concensus amongst rational free thinkers is...'

OK so tell me why religion is NOT outdated then? If people still take the bible to be a good or true reflection of modern life, I find that incredibly hard to believe and also quite unerving!

I guess it's not that it's a reflection of modern life, it's that it helps people cope with issues that appear in any life, at any time. Birth, death, stuff like that. I don't know any Christians (or, indeed, anyone of any religion) who actually believes the word of their religious book.

scientlogy is not outdated it is al Sci - fi ,aliens and space travel and all those modern memes we have from science/improved knowledge of the world

"Rob - where were you on my angry atheists thread? I'm sure you could have contributed something there "

I don't doubt it! However it was a bit long when I spotted it and I don't like to be late to the party 🙂

Yeah, but Scientology was made up by LRH as a joke - he'd think it's the funniest thing ever that people take it seriously.

The Qur'an teaches that Islam is the continued faithful religion in the same line as the Prophets who were before Muhammad: The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah ... and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (42:13 AYA). The result of this view is that the scriptures given by these Prophets are considered to be genuine scriptures from God: But say, "We (Muslims) believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you (Jews & Christians); our Allah and your Allah is One" (29:46 AYA).

"Same" is not the same as "based on", which is what I was arguing against.

oh shut up, everyone has an opinion or belief and right to it. so shut up! doesn't mean they are irrational.

Surrounded By Zulus - Member

I have now read the article in full....

That's damn decent of you. Most people who start a thread with a link usually don't bother reading it. Thank you.

does if they feel the presence of an entity that does not actually exist and for which we have no evidence of its existence i would say it is pretty much the actual definition of irrational

the fact it is culturally acceptable does not make it any more rational

Delusions are irrational beliefs, held with a high level of conviction, that are highly resistant to change even when the delusional person is exposed to forms of proof that contradict the belief. Non-bizarre delusions are considered to be plausible; that is, there is a possibility that what the person believes to be true could actually occur a small proportion of the time. Conversely, bizarre delusions focus on matters that would be impossible in reality. For example, a non-bizarre delusion might be the belief that one's activities are constantly under observation by federal law enforcement or intelligence agencies, which actually does occur for a small number of people. By contrast, a man who believes he is pregnant with German Shepherd puppies holds a belief that could never come to pass in reality. Also, for beliefs to be considered delusional, the content or themes of the beliefs must be uncommon in the person's culture or religion.

Read more: Delusional disorder - define, causes, DSM, functioning, effects, therapy, paranoia, adults http://www.minddisorders.com/Br-Del/Delusional-disorder.html#b#ixzz1gjuvvGqX

ie we exempt religious belief from madness because they actually fit the definition - it is irrational we just accept it because it is common

you been watching Star Trek Junkyard? God exists as a human concept, and I'm fine with that human concept. Just go and unexplain that to 90% of the worlds rational human beings that are getting on with life and do beleive. I also believe in the human concept of Love. does any atheists want to prove a hug? I'm an atheist btw as in the way God is described.

i think people believe in god in the west as its a nicer was to view the world than the cold hard reality of atheism , of life's shit then you die and rot in the ground.

By definition, faith is not rational, but rationality does not mean knowledge is complete, it merely means it is determined by reason and evidence. The Catholic Church's "Fides et Ratio" holds, inter alia, that rationality and faith are both essential, and therefore hardly mutually exclusive.

As a matter of constitution, the Prime Minster is correct, our constitutional church is Christian. The law developed in this country is also largely based on Christian doctrine so again he is right. What he is not saying is everyone or even the majority are Christians.

As for a Prime Minster talking about religion, he was addressing an event celebrating the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible - I imagine it was kind of expected.

its a nicer was to view the world than the cold hard reality of atheism , of life's shit then you die and rot in the ground.

slainte ➡ rob

I have not seen star trek for years ...... but i have memorised them all 😉

What's not nice about the live, die, rot idea. I actually think it's quite beautiful.

Back into the amazing recycling system of earth!

reality of atheism

Atheism not belief based then?

Dear jumpupanddown,

My life is not shit; I smile [b]a lot[/b].

Hugz,
Rob.

why did I post that I sound like a right nob. Space girl in green you would eh Junkyard?

I probably should have put 'the general concensus amongst rational free thinkers is...'

Ah - and your definition of "rational free thinker" is somebody who agrees with you?

I thought the OP was, 'Is the UK a Christian Country?'
So how do you get on about the origins of Islam from that?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html

A reminder, just to get us back on track like.

The major Ibrahamic religions stole some wonderful ideas from secular society and rebranded them as their own:

You know the ones:
Treating others like you'd like to be treated yourself, don't get jiggly with her next door, prawns go off in the sun, always wash yer knob, etc etc

Now, if there was an omnipotent being I'd like her to answer the important existential stuff, not just to be some celestial agony aunt.

Best just to treat everyone you meet as an opportunity to take the best out of humanity.

"I think that people are the greatest fun."

Spot on Arthur.

What's not nice about the [s]live[/s] [b]consume[/b], die, rot idea?

sorry to burst your bubble there Rob.. it's almost beautiful except for that one glaring defect..

🙁

[img] [/img]

"Judge not, that ye be not judged"

Matthew 7:1

For all its religion bashing, this is something STW would do well to remember at times. I was just saying to Mrs Grips the other day that I thought the forum had made progress, but had a little slip today haven't we?

Anyway, re the OP - this is not a Christian country. It is a country in which the majority are Christian. Christianity was imported once, you know.