is it worth making your own energy drink?

sadexpunk,

Without going into too much detail the stomach can only absorb about 60g of carbohydrate per hour (with liquid) before you will start to experience GI distress. This is from all sources, liquid energy drink and any solid food you consume as well. To give you some idea I will detail my approach.

For say a 4-5 hour road ride of maybe 70-80 miles I would usually mix up 80g of maltodextrin with 20g of whey protein (note 4:1 ratio), flavoured with Vimto squash in a 750ml bottle with water. I will also eat maybe one banana, one cereal bar and maybe something else like a packet of gel shots if I feel I need it later in the ride. I also will have a 750ml bottle of plain water because I like to drink that with the solid food.

You will need to experiment on training rides to see what combination of liquid and/or solid foods suit you best. Don’t pack too much down though otherwise you will end up with a guts ache which will be hard to shift and will affect your perfomance.

Remember you should roughly begin a ride with about 90 minutes of energy reserves (glycogen) already stored in your muscles and liver. However, you don’t want to be running that right down before you start replenishment so drink your energy drink maybe 15 minutes after you start riding and eat (and drink) little and often, maybe 1/2 banana or 1/2 cereal bar every 30-45 minutes roughly etc.

Hope that helps.

thanks a lot mate, very helpful.

Thats a decent summary of the 136 page Endurance PDF on the first page. I’m placing my Maltrodextrin / Electrolyte / Soy protien order today.

On long rides I drink coconut water and it definitely seems better than water alone. Apparently its full of naturally occuring electrolytes, it has a kind of sweet/sweaty taste that I’ve grown to like! Its not packed full of sugar. Quite expensive but effective. I dilute it around 50/50 with water.

You don’t really need the fructose. It’s supposed to slightly help absorbtion but it’s marginal ime. Likewise electrolytes, don’t bother routinely, only in exceptional cases.

Just chuck some maltodextrin in there and flavour with squash. Job done.

Glucose (which is essentially what maltodextrin is) and Fructose are absorbed by different routes in the gut – by taking the two differnt sugar sources together you can exceed the nominal 60g sugar/hr limit you would get using glucose alone.
Studies estimate the fructose is absorbed at about half the speed of glucose so a mix of 2:1 glucose:fructose will up your sugar absorbtion rate to about 90g/hr – independent of whether or not you notice it, that’s a 50% increase, which in endurance eating is pretty significant, but for short blasts probably less important.

I know the theory, but in practice the effect is slight, which is why I only bother for special occasions, as I said. Also, good luck drinking 90g/hour of that lot. I have a pretty strong stomach and I can’t drink that concentration.

The best thing I can do for myself on long rides is save some caffeine for when I get really fatigued.

hilldodger,

You are exactly right stating that you can push the nominal 60g/hr CHO consumption rate to around 90g/hr using fructose because it is absorbed by a different pathway in the gut from other sugars. However, I agree with molgrips that it only really makes sense on long, arduous events where you might need to consume carbs at a higher rate. Even then it’s debatable in my opinion as you will be sailing close to the wind of gastro-intestinal distress i.e. guts ache. This will be especially true if you are consuming solid food as well because it will be very difficult to regulate your consumption accurately.

The other problem with fructose is that is it the sweetest of all the sugars so on longer rides it can very monotonous consuming a very sugary mix. By all means use it if you feel you have the need but just be aware it can have a real downside. I have used it in the past with no problems but I certainly wouldn’t bother with it on normal training or social rides.

For those of you not racing, what sort of riding do you guys use this for? I’ve always been a water drinker, maybe with a nuun tablet thrown in for some flavour every now and then

My rides aren’t usually that long, and if I do it’s usually bikepacking so my pace isn’t that high. If I need to refuel then I usually end up eating, often snacking so it’s little and often

I’m not critiquing, just trying to work out if I should change things up a bit…

For those of you not racing, what sort of riding do you guys use this for?

I don’t – for normal riding I take either water, a flask of tea/coffee and some sandwiches or pastry based goodness, maybe the odd cereal bar or even a chocolate snack!
All this sugar-potion chomping is just for competitors and wannabees (IMO), but it’s good for the sports food industry and dentists I guess 😉

Benp1 – from what I’ve read and researched, unless you have zero space for real food or cannot be given it en-route (think pro-roadie food bag) – there is no need for supplements. It’s marketing and personal desires behind the reasons for buying supplements etc – not an essential requirement for your body or performance.

Benp1,

Unless you are riding

a) faster
b) further

or

c) feeling drained after about 2 hours riding (known at the “bonk” or hunger knock)

then you shouldn’t feel the need to change anything really or concern yourself unduly with the contents of this thread.

hilldodger,

I’m assuming that your comments are meant tongue-in-cheek because that list of “real” food you cited probably contains more sugar than I eat on a ride. If that is what you consume on a ride (and no reason not to) then make sure you brush your teeth thoroughly afterwards! 😀

hilldodger,

I’m assuming that your comments are meant tongue-in-cheek because that list of “real” food you cited probably contains more sugar than I eat on a ride

Not that tongue in cheek, as we’ve said – less than 2 hours is just water for refreshment, but if I’m riding all day it’s for fun and a lunch stop with sandwiches or maybe even a pie and a pint is certainly on the cards.

🙂

For those of you not racing, what sort of riding do you guys use this for? I’ve always been a water drinker, maybe with a nuun tablet thrown in for some flavour every now and then

It rather depends on your physiology I think. Some of us like to hammer everywhere flat out, and I think many of these people are predisposed to use carbs to do this, which means they end up training to eat, store and use carbs a lot.

If you are the long steady type of rider then you probably are that way because you are good at metabolising fat, and hence you’ll be not using much glycogen and won’t need to replace it whilst riding.

You can move from one towards the other, with training.

It’s marketing and personal desires behind the reasons for buying supplements etc – not an essential requirement for your body or performance.

It’s absolutely definitely NOT just marketing. It’s liquid food, it’s easier to digest than any other kind of food and it definitely gives you energy. The question is whether or not YOUR body needs it on the rides that YOU are doing. Everyone knows that ‘the bonk’ is real.

if I’m riding all day it’s for fun and a lunch stop with sandwiches or maybe even a pie and a pint is certainly on the cards.

Good example. I can’t say anything bad about doing that kind of ride, but it’s not something I generally do or would really like to.

…If you are the long steady type of rider then you probably are that way because you are good at metabolising fat

or maybe just like to hear the birds singing, gaze at the scenery awhile and generally chillax a bit – that’s a head thing not a carb thing 😉

or maybe just like to hear the birds singing, gaze at the scenery awhile and generally chillax a bit – that’s a head thing not a carb thing

Of course. But I have a feeling that there is a fair amount of overlap between those who like to hammer and those who are physiologically adapted to it.

I have been wondering if a mental desire to go flat out everywhere means that you do this – even from an early age, at school, whilst playing etc – and in doing so you deplete your glycogen, so you choose carb rich foods, so you are ready again for more intense exercise and so on. You could inadvertently train yourself this way.

I think we gravitate to the kind of riding we’re suited to both mentally and physically and hence get better at it.

Maybe, but I save my “going flat out” time for down the gym or running – both (to me) inherently boring activities whose only pleasure is besting your last performance.

Cyling (to me) has always been an actvity more akin to hiking, where a considerbale part of the enjoyment is going to new places and experiencing them in a way that let’s you feel “part of nature”

And as I said, that’s not metabolically determined it’s a conscious decision 😀

Molgrips – the bonk has nothing to do with liquid food, suppliments or real food. It’s do with your energy stores, or lack off. I suggest you do some more sports nutrition research.

It can be both, my long rides tend to be in the 3-3.5 hour region, but while I’m hammering the singletrack or DH runs, I’ll make sure I’m back in Z2 for all the climbs and double-track.

Never felt the need for more than squash and maybe an energy bar* half way round

*only for the sake of convenience really, rather than any perceived benefit

Molgrips – the bonk has nothing to do with liquid food, suppliments or real food. It’s do with your energy stores, or lack off

So you’re saying that eating does not replenish those stores on the go? Or that blood glucose does not spare muscle glycogen? I’m interested to hear about this.

only for the sake of convenience really, rather than any perceived benefit

This, too – a lot of real food is quite difficult to eat whilst actually riding, and tends to get crushed, bruised, or crumbled fairly easily.

It’s do with your energy stores, or lack off

Which are topped up with food, liquid solid or whatever.

I’m not really an anything rider. I like to give it some beans every now and then, but mostly I just like riding

I’m more of a plodder who enjoys being outside and on the bike. I also like eating. I guess that set up works well for me. But like I said, I rarely have the time for long rides, it’s mostly commuting or a quick sortie with the dog. Probably impacted by the fact I love in London. If I lived out in the sticks where there were hills that might be a bit different…

(In fact now I think about it the only times I ‘smash’ it are on commutes with sections that I know, but in total they’re less than an hour so I just sip a bit of water)

Molgrips. Avoiding the bonk is to do with keeping your energy stores at the correct levels and making sure they do not get reduced to such a low level that you have passed the point of no return (whereby it’s too late and any food you eat will not be turned into the necessary volume of energy you need).

Therefore, whilst you are correct that liquid food is digested quickier thank solid, all that means is that you have to eat your choice of food at the correct time to ensure it has the time/process involved to be converted to the energy you need.

Therefore, avoiding the bonk is about the timing of your food intake and ensuring your stores do not get too low (which is why you should eat before you get hungry).

Avoiding the bonk is to do with keeping your energy stores at the correct levels

.. by.. drinking energy drink, perhaps?

you have to eat your choice of food at the correct time to ensure it has the time/process involved to be converted to the energy you need.

And with energy drink, it’s absorbed very quickly and crucially, takes less energy to digest, so you don’t have to plan ahead as much.

You can avoid the bonk very easily by drinking maltodextrin solution which almost certainly works out cheaper than real food. It’s easier to consume, and more effective than real food because it’s easier to digest. It’s not marketing – which is what you were saying.

Now you may prefer not to use it – that’s absoutely fine, real food also works. But maltodextrin has its place.

FWIW I take both real food, energy bars and energy drink on long rides, and I use all three depending on feel.

I’m always amused by the “real food” versus energy product discussion as well. Maltodextrin is derived from corn starch or basically wheat, so in terms of its synthetic-ness it’s only effectively equivalent to flour.

On that basis anyone consuming baked goods including bread on a ride is not really consuming real food at all. All processed foods have all sorts of additives so maybe we need to check the labelling on any food you consume to see just how “real” it actually is. Check out the packaging on your daily bread for instance, you might well be surprised at the length of the list of ingredients if you assumed it would be just flour, water and yeast.

I’m not really arguing either way really, everyone has to eat whatever suits them on a ride depending on all sorts of factors. Basically what we are all trying to achieve is to avoid the dreaded “bonk” which interferes with our riding pleasure, especially on longer rides.

If you can manage that then I think you have it sussed whatever it is you are doing or eating.

Now then Molgrips, you’ve taken my marketing comment out of context. I could put it back into context and reiterate my point, but then we’d go over it all again…and I’m not going to do that, I’ve not got the energy…

Well you seemed to be saying, as so many people do on here, that energy drink is marketing bolx. Of course some of it is, but the principle is sound, and it’s a different thing to eating food on rides but both have their place. That’s the point I want to make. It’s not a personal attack so don’t treat it that way 🙂

Maybe it’s what I’ve written and the words I’ve used becuase you’ve misinterpreted it agin (and dont worry I’m definitely not taking as a personal attack – seems a reasonably healthy debate). Or maybe I’m misinterpreting you.
My point in reference to benp1 (asking if he should be taking supplements to improve performance) was he doesn’t NEED to. He may CHOOSE to, but it isn’t necessary. It’s marketing that makes people think they need to take supplements to improve performance. That’s all it is, choices. I totally agree, they all work and each to their own…

But rats, I ended up reiterating my point…

I don’t consider maltodextrin a supplement.

And marketing still doens’t enter into it 🙂

It’s marketing that makes people think they need to take supplements to improve performance.

Your statement is more accurate reiterated as thus:

“It’s marketing that makes people think they need to take THEIR supplements to improve performance”.

Other than that, carbs in = energy, protien in = fix muscles, water in = hydration, just don’t be arsed with more than the body can withstand (like I learned).

And yes OP it can be done cheaper, my either eating normal whole foods or mixing your own maltodextrin which is cheaper to buy than High 5 etc becuase its not several product pre-mixed, advertised broadly, nor comes in brightly coloured tubs aka the cost or marketing the thing. Imagine how much those Torq buses costs – and where the money is coming from…

Molgrips – maltrodexin is a carbohydrate supplement. 🙄

No, it’s food, not a supplement.

“A dietary supplement is intended to provide nutrients that may otherwise not be consumed in sufficient quantities.

Supplements as generally understood include vitamins, minerals, fiber, fatty acids, or amino acids, among other substances. U.S. authorities define dietary supplements as foods, while elsewhere they may be classified as drugs or other products.”

MD is actually classed as a food additive, its primary use is in canned fruits, instant puddings, sauces, salad dressings and a wide range of snacks.

Well, having spent £25 on a years supply of powders, I’ve had several different rides on Maltodextrin & correctly dosed electrolyte powder.

I’ve got to say its an improvement over the High 5 combo I used before. Culminating in todays 70 mile club ride I just end up feeling “fresher” as opposed to “crashing” as soon as I get through the back gate at home. On the bike steadily sipping the Maltodextrin I feel it – and its a lot less “spikey” than the high 5 – kind of like one gulp last longer than 5 minutes or the whole thing just provides consistent energy throughout the ride.

No shits or cramp either.

Thumbs up from me – does the job better and is about 1/4 of the price per annum.

How about this for a recovery drink:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/the-benefits-of-milk-25698/