[Closed] How Much Does Price Matching Hurt The LBS?

Is that 2300 chicken pounds ??

You need more facts, maybe the bike at the second shop is an ex demo or shop soiled or something. Or last years model. Or a typing error...

I'd guess it depends on what the LBS are paying for the bike. £900 is a heck of a difference though, is it a 2012 bike or is the LBS reserving you a 2011 one (and the other place is dumping old stock)? Have they ordered in anything specially? Probably just worth raising it with them and asking what's the best they can do but I wouldn't assume they can price-match that amount without making a loss themselves.

Probably hurt the lbs a lot. They are probably selling the bike at trade to cut their losses and get rid of the bike. Your lbs mark up tends to be about 30% not including staff, setting up the bike, lighting, etc... So in the end They are probably making around 15%, 20% on the bike. Bit shit really when the likes of crc are jobbing frames out at 60% off...

Simple economics, innit? Buy wherever is cheapest. I don't get how people will happily hunt about for the best bargain for a new telly/computer/whatever, and buy from a major chain retailer rather than a Local Electronics Shop, but seem to have some sort of 'loyalty' towards a bike shop.

No bike shop gets my business unless they're at least pretty close to what I can get something for online. Recently went to a bike shop (expaynding chain actually), tried some shoes on, asked them to price match the sale price most other retailers were offering, they said no, I walked out and bought them online. So, used their facilities to try on for size, yet they get no benefit at all. Despite offering a 'price match' service.

I do find the independent shops to be a lot better in this respect though; might not be able to offer such low prices, but can give you a discount on something else, free labour etc.

In fact it's the chains who appear to be the most inflexible on this, I've found. Here in London, they know they can stick to full RRP, so they do.

My heart does not bleed for the cycle retail industry. Plenty of cheap online outlets, loads of decent s/h bits, enough to keep me and my bikes running for some time yet, at least...

By the bike for £2300 and give the £900 to a charity; simples 😀

Elfin, I'd say that's a little harsh - I'd probably ask the question re price matching before using their facility to try equipment for size.

at the end of the day a LBS does provide a service in that you can touch, see and feel the products before you buy, and this is a more expensive way of selling something. As the retailer, they just have to hope that some of their customers put a value on this service. A bike, a jacket, helmet & shoes is a much more personal item than an electronics item, otherwise you'd not have gone in and tried it free of charge.

We get this a huge amount in my trade, with customers calling up, gleaning all the information they can from us and then taking their custom elsewhere to save (often a paltry) amount of cash.

Consumers need to put a value on good service. They will miss it when it's gone (the amount of CRC bashing threads lately is a testament to this).

Someone told me that LBSs make most of their money from servicing/repairs. Anyone in the trade able to comment?

Andy

Funnily enough, the shop in question now has the same shoe on sale, and it's even cheaper than I paid elsewhere! 😆

So they've done themselves out of the extra they wooduve got off me in store. Silly really. Oh whell.

Elfin, I'd say that's a little harsh

Business is business; dog eat dog. My priority is to myself, I can't be concerned with the profit margins of others. I don't have sufficient cash to prop up outdated business models.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's how it is.

bike for the poultry sum of £2300

There's your problem - the maths is being done by chickens.

Ah, good to see Elfin has finally come round to Thatcherismism 😉

Big question for the OP is how much is his deposit? - he could walk, lose the deposit, buy from the other place and still save money 😯

I imagine they've got some face recognition software running on the CCTV so you'll be baned next time you go in Elfin 🙂

Recently went to a bike shop (expaynding chain actually), tried some shoes on, asked them to price match the sale price most other retailers were offering, they said no, I walked out and bought them online

Reprehensible behaviour.

Do you ask your corner shop to price match with Tesco?

Business is business; dog eat dog. My priority is to myself, I can't be concerned with the profit margins of others. I don't have sufficient cash to prop up outdated business models.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's how it is.

...bloody capitalist 😉 Bet he votes for Big Dave 😉

i dont shop for the cheapest, i want service and no hassle 🙂

Business is business; dog eat dog. My priority is to myself, I can't be concerned with the profit margins of others. I don't have sufficient cash to prop up outdated business models.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's how it is.

Doesn't the fact that you were in there trying them on in the first place imply it's not so outdated? Otherwise you'd have just gone straight online and bought them at the cheapest price you could find.

Hey all. I've put a deposit down on a bike

Best thing to do is go to the LBS with some sort of proof that you can get it for the lower price and talk it through.

Hey all. I've put a deposit down on a bike which costs £3200 & while in the process of saving up, I came across the same bike for the poultry sum of £2300

When did you put the deposit down and how long have you been saving? if you did this a while back you probably put a deposit on a 2011 bike, but now the 2012 models are in and the other shop is selling off the 2011 to make room for the 2012...

Your current shop will probably sell you the latest 2012 model.....unless it already is in the shop.

Depending on how much deposit you put down maybe go buy the 2011 bike from the other shop, your LBS keeps the deposit and you have some spare cash?

Jedi, +many.

Doesn't the fact that you were in there trying them on in the first place imply it's not so outdated?

Nope, it's the fact that he doesn't feel obliged to buy them there that makes it outdated.

My priority is to myself,

Your Thatcherite roots are showing. Time for you to get all faux socialist again - the facade is slipping. I find your double standards amusing now.

Ah, good to see Elfin has finally come round to Thatcherismism

Hardly. Just looking after what scant financial resources I have, is all.

Your Thatcherite roots are showing

What, for favouring one capitalist enterprise over another? Since when was a bike shop a lovely wooly socialist enterprise anyway? It's a business whose principal function is to generate profit for it's owners, not some altruistic charity. Please explain how I can further Socialism by favouring one Capitalist Enterprise over another, cos I'd love to know...

Do you ask your corner shop to price match with Tesco?

I don't do any major shopping in the corner shop, it's for bits and bobs when I need them. I buy milk there, as it seems that the price of mild does not in any way differ wildly from shop to shop. Anyone care to explain why?

I'd love to see small shops be able to sell stuff at the same price as the big guns. But we don't live in a perfect World. So I look after my pennies, cos I ain't got many.

Point is, a bike shop's no different to me, than any other shop. So why the double standards of many on here; screw over little local shops in favour of Comet/PC World/B+Q etc, but act all altruistic when it comes to bike shops. Strange behaviour if you ask me.

There used to be loads of little bike shops round Covent Garden and thayt. Most seem to have disappeared. No loss imo, as they mostly seemed to sell overpriced stuff at full RRP. Certainly din't really cater for the majority of cyclists. Spensive boutiques for trendy types. The market changed, and they either died off or adapted.

The LBS needs to adapt if it's going to survive. That's simple economics, right?

So how's the local bike shop going to retain my custom then? What's it going to offer me that I can't get elsewhere?

Nope, it's the fact that he doesn't feel obliged to buy them there that makes it outdated.

This.

I'm all for it! My LBS does price matching. I was recently looking for a full suss XC bike and saw a 2011 model Giant Anthem 3 online for £1400. In my local bike shop it was £2150. I went in, tried it for size and then told them that I could buy it for 750 less elsewhere. If they wanted to match it great, I'd rather buy it from them, but if not then it wasn't a big issue, I'd go elsewhere. They didn't have a problem with it, fully appreciated that it was huge amount of money, and said whilst they'd make very little profit they'd rather me buy from them than elsewhere.

As far as I can see they get a small profit on a bike that they wanted to get rid of and my continued custom, I get a good deal on a bike, everyone is happy.

Ultimately I agree with the poster above, I'm not a charity and look after number one. Its not like buying a loaf of bread from tescos, its a fairly substantial amount of cash that I'd rather have in my pocket than someoneelses!

I have a simple code. If I would happily buy unseen then I'll seek a LBS price match and buy wherever cheapest. Conversely, if I want to try on or seek advice, then I figure I should pay for the LBS service I've just used.

LBS's provide a valuable service and we'd be the poorer without them.

mudglutten - Member
I have a simple code. If I would happily buy unseen then I'll seek a LBS price match and buy wherever cheapest. Conversely, if I want to try on or seek advice, then I figure I should pay for the LBS service I've just used.

LBS's provide a valuable service and we'd be the poorer without them.

Just looking after what scant financial resources I have, is all.

Well, erm, yeah, thats Thatcherism, innit! just a question of scayle. Me, me me, and damn everyone else!

Please explain how I can further Socialism by favouring one Capitalist Enterprise over another, cos I'd love to know...

Well, you know, that LBS employed, what three people? probably got a share of the profits too! without the sayle it all goes to big wayrehouses and that, which employ less people - no job for the windowcleaner, no job for the milkman delivering milk for the mechanics coffee, no kids at the local school - less taxes payd on salaries and that. LBS was a part of the community, by going to the online seller then you're stealing from society, innit 😯

Capitalist organisations can follow Socialist ideologies, both for their staff and as part of society as a whole - look at John Lewis Partnership, look at Edinburgh Bike Co-Op, the workers own the company and share in the profits, not the capitalist pigs, what could be more Socialist than that?

Go on, say it Freddie - "Thayres no such thayng as Society" 😉

Depends what you mean by an LBS really- I don't know exactly what you mean by the term, but I group bike shops in three ways- independents, chains and (predominantly) onlines -ie merlin, crc etc.
I wouldn't use any of the bike shops that are immediately local to me.

I wouldn't ask an independent to price match, and don't ask them to discount - though did once ask a shop if I could take up an advertised offer.
Generally I'll happily ask Evans, or any chain which offers it, to price match- I figure they've built it into the business model, but I normally try to avoid using them.

Like most things in life, it's a bit hard to behave consistently though- I do love a bit of a bargain, and quite happily bought the heavily discounted Reverb and Garmin 800 that have been mentioned on here.

I have a simple code. If I would happily buy unseen then I'll seek a LBS price match and buy wherever cheapest. Conversely, if I want to try on or seek advice, then I figure I should pay for the LBS service I've just used.

LBS's provide a valuable service and we'd be the poorer without them.

iiiin one.

I'd add that anything with a service need / warranty risk such as suspension forks or wheelsets, I'd buy from a local retailer with a good service rep.

Service is worth more than the saving you can get by lining yourself up for more future faff.

I also think it's plain embarrasing to ask for a price match on small parts if there's little real difference -ie how to chip away at a retailer's goodwill- so that rounds down the items I'd ask about a price match on to maybe 30% of products: a Thomson post, a saddle, tyres etc.

Few of us can afford to buy things without any reference to price or fair market value, but all of us would do well to consider how our spending affects things around us longer-term - ie how we use our 'capitalist vote'.

Will depend on who your LBS is...if it is the likes of Merlin or CRC, then you won't be hurting them as they tend to dictate the price matching price. They buy in such a large quantity that they shaft the independent LBS as they can't match them for quantity so get a higher trade price.

Some shops have a huge mark up but they are few and far between. A price difference of that suggests that the other shop is getting rid at trade price (actually probably lower than trade).

Up to you really...have you signed any paperwork with the first shop? If so, it's not something you can just walk away from...if you get on well with both, which one do you want to remain on good terms with?

It is a lo of cash difference, but if you are putting the deposit down - do you have the bike? Is the second shop selling it as part of a End of Year clearance? In which case do either have the bike in ready for you??? Checking the price of a bike AFTER you have put the deposit down isn't going to help as there are always sales and price differences to be found AFTER you have put the money down...

I'd approach the first shop and see if they could knock some money off BUT personally, I'd be sticking with the first shop - you made the deal with them...

I don't get how people will happily hunt about for the best bargain for a new telly/computer/whatever, and buy from a major chain retailer rather than a Local Electronics Shop, but seem to have some sort of 'loyalty' towards a bike shop.

Well, erm, yeah, thats Thatcherism

It's not, but don't let that stop your pathetic attempts to score points. The more crap you spout, the more foolish you look.

Well, you know, that LBS employed, what three people? without the sayle it all goes to big wayrehouses and that, which employ less people - no job for the windowcleaner, no job for the milkman delivering milk for the mechanics coffee, no kids at the local school - less taxes payd on salaries and that. LBS was a part of the community, by going to the online seller then you're stealing from society, innit

I'd imagine Chain Reaction, Wiggle etc employ rather more people than a small LBS. As well as all those working in associated industries such as the delivery companies, Post Office etc. So that's the first part of your 'argument' screwed. That, and the fact that the LBS is not some State Owned industry with all profits going straight into the public coffers...

LBS was a part of the community

See, this bit is more pertinent; if LBS's offer say local guided rides, organised biking holidays and stuff, as well as things like cycling awareness/proficiency courses for local kids, maybe do mechanics training for disaffected yute dem, helped out with local charities and thayt, then fair enough. Maybe there are some that do, but how many? Most I see are simply there to make their owners money. Like any other business. Do you employ the most spensive local plumber, or electrician etc, or do you shop around?

So how's the local bike shop going to retain my custom then? What's it going to offer me that I can't get elsewhere?

Given you have stated your desire to buy cheap and used, probably nothing. Your plastering all businesses as the same capitalist enterprises is shallow and trite even for you trying to make a point. Which you didn't.
You 'speek for da man' but do nothing to help him if he has the temerity to try and run a small business. I hope you get all you need from the cheapest retailers. You appear to know the cost but not the value of anything.

[i]You appear to know the cost but not the value of anything.[/i]

This.

I love bike shops. They are the equivalent of tourist attractions for me, in that I seek them out and actively visit them and chat to the guys n gals who work there.

I will happily pay more in a bike shop because it's not just about the cost, it's not just about a mathematical or financial transaction, it's about talking and interacting with people who like the same stuff as me.

It's a people thing.

See, this bit is more pertinent; if LBS's offer say local guided rides, organised biking holidays and stuff, as well as things like cycling awareness/proficiency courses for local kids, maybe do mechanics training for disaffected yute dem, helped out with local charities and thayt, then fair enough. Maybe there are some that do, but how many? Most I see are simply there to make their owners money. Like any other business. Do you employ the most spensive local plumber, or electrician etc, or do you shop around?

Bloke has the gall to start a small business - a bike shop. He works all hours god sends just to get it off the ground do the books, sort relationships with wholesalers/reps etc. Earns a small wage but enough for him to keep the family under a roof. You want him to then do community service before you'll use him? No wonder your utopia doesn't exist anywhere on earth.

How many Freds does it take to change a lightbulb? One - he just holds on to the lightbulb and waits for the rest of the world to revolve around him.

Of course thats Thatcherism Fred, you've been telling us for years - pure unadulterated greed, getting the most you can for your money regardless of the consequences. You're a secret right winger and you cannot admit it - you've Pwned yourself on this one mate 😆

That, and the fact that the LBS is not some State Owned industry with all profits going straight into the public coffers...

So Waitrose is not more socialist than Tesco's then? What about all those LBS where the staff own the shop, or own shares in the shop, eh? Did you see how much the owners of CRC and Wiggle got paid Freddie? See that Wiggle got sold to a private finance company for £180 million? you'd rather give your money to them than the bloke down the road who sweats blood 7 days a week keeping his own business going? you're a bloody Hypocrite!

Surely an employee owned organisation is fundamentally socialist because the workers own the means of production - That’s the very definition of socialism.

Do you employ the most spensive local plumber, or electrician etc, or do you shop around?

I'd talk to friends/family/STW to get a recommendation, which would probably be more expensive than the dodgy unreliable cowboy outfit. What would you do?

Given you have stated your desire to buy cheap and used, probably nothing. Your plastering all businesses as the same capitalist enterprises is shallow and trite even for you trying to make a point. Which you didn't.
You 'speek for da man' but do nothing to help him if he has the temerity to try and run a small business. I hope you get all you need from the cheapest retailers. You appear to know the cost but not the value of anything.

That's it, that's it; let your anger flow through you...

Please explain to me how a LBS is somehow less of a Capitalist Enterprise than CRC etc?

I will happily pay more in a bike shop because it's not just about the cost, it's not just about a mathematical or financial transaction, it's about talking and interacting with people who like the same stuff as me.

It's a people thing.

[i]Now[/i] we're starting to get somewhere...

So; a LBS does have something to offer that an online retailer does not in any way, after all then? So there is added value in shopping at a LBS?

Ok.

Point I'm making, which some people seem to be missing (not a surprise given who they are), is that businesses must always be adapting to the market if they are to survive. TBH, too many LBS are stuck in the past, thinking they can continue with their outdated business model, without needing to adapt, and then crying cos ruthless uncaring selfish scum like me are voting with their Debit Cards and shopping elsewhere. 😆

I don't employ a plumber cos I want someone to talk to, I employ them to fix a leak or unblock me drain or whatever. I would be happy to pay a premium for a better quality job, someone who's taken time to do something properly, who can give me advice on avoiding future problems, sure.

Most of the time I just want the problem fixed for the cheapest price though, innit?

So, how can we address the problem of the likes of CRC undercutting all the LBS's? Do the Indy Traders form a Trade Association to try to drive down the prices the big suppliers are charging them? Boycott Shimano etc until they lower prices? Demand the government fix prices for all?

What about CRC etc right to 'make a living'? What about their workers? Are there surely not loads more people working in the bike industry in this country than there has bin in a long time?

Why did all the bike factories close down?

Why did the mines, the steelyards, the car manufacturers close down?

Elfin - you have to admit, this is a different tone to normal!!

Much as it pains me tend to agree with Tory boy.

Wasnt this LBS v LBS though nothing to do with an online retailer anyway. As such its all about the deposit, how much was it? Can you get it back without too much LBS goodwill and how highly do you value that goodwill.

a)Tell your LBS the price elswhere, do a deal.
b)Make up a story more likely to get your deposit back.
c)Do nothing.

Probably go for a.

I'd love to have the money to buy stuff in bike shops...

bike for the poultry sum of £2300

There's your problem - the maths is being done by chickens.

Well I thought it was funny.

Why did the mines, the steelyards, the car manufacturers close down?

[b]Because we could by it from somewhere else cheaper of course :twisted:[/b]

Most of the time I just want the problem fixed for the cheapest price though, innit?

Exactly - so, Next time there's a thread on NHS pensions, next time there's a thread on the Post Office workers rights being undermined, next time there's a thread on Bin collections being outsourced to private sector, I'm going to point you back to this thread and call you a bloody Hypocrite! 😆

Please explain to me how a LBS is somehow less of a Capitalist Enterprise than CRC etc?

They have a different model. no one is saying that a bike shop is a charity, but they stock kit for you to try on before you buy, at significant extra cost to them than running a warehouse in Northern Ireland.

Part of the risk they run is that they are used as a 'try before you buy' free service before people go to CRC/wiggle for the cheapest price. Really they are at the mercy of their customers.

I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong, Elfin, it's just that striding in and demanding the cheapest price in the UK in a LBS when they have a completely different cost base and massively less buying power than the big boys isn't that fair.

Me? I buy my sundries (tubes, tyres etc) from the bug boys - I know enough about bikes to know what the kit will do and what to buy - I don't need a LBS for this service.

I do buy clothing etc from a shop, because I need to know if it will fit and can't be arsed playing returns tennis via post with CRC.

I just think that the practice of taking up a shops time when you have no intention of buying when they could be spending time with a genuine customer is a bit harsh. so I'll stand by what i sad, elfin, you're being harsh.

Of course thats Thatcherism Fred, you've been telling us for years - pure unadulterated greed, getting the most you can for your money regardless of the consequences.

Oh sweet Juesus of Nazareth, you still don't get it, do you? 🙄

My financial resources are finite and limited. I, and most people I suspect, do not have sufficient disposable income to act charitably towards a private business. Are they going to give me a significant discount because i have less money than someone else? No. Ergo, I go where I can get a better deal for me. I don't have the luxury of choice. And neither do most others.

Now, either LBS's recognise this fact, in these austere times, and adapt to the market, or they don't survive. Simple economics.

Or should the Governemnt intervene, to bail out the localised cycle retail industry?

Do all youse criticising me and getting your knickers in a twist pay full RRP for every single thing you buy? Do you have all your bikes and components etc hand made for you by a local craftsman rather than seeing the money go abroad?

No, so be quiet, bunch of hypocrites....

so I'll stand by what i sad, elfin, you're being harsh.

I am indeed, You're right. But you know what? Life's harsh.Why should it be different for the LBS, than anyone else? Notice how the Tory Boys on here scream for public services to be cut etc, but woe betide anyone who dares suggest any part of the private sector needs to buck it's ideas up, eh? 😆

Next time there's a thread on NHS pensions, next time there's a thread on the Post Office workers rights being undermined, next time there's a thread on Bin collections being outsourced to private sector, I'm going to point you back to this thread and call you a bloody Hypocrite!

See my point above, Labby. Read it. Think about it. Then try to understand instead of trying to score points all the time.

And try to think about how the LBS's can be helped, rather than having a pop at me to try to help feel better about yourself.

I've had a think about it, why not try doing the same?

What about a tax on online sales? Would that not help the LBS?

Or would that stand in the way of Maggie's Free Market Enterprise dream?

My financial resources are finite and limited.

So are mine, but the Government keep taking money off me to pay for public sector type stuff, and then borrowing even more and expecting me to pay for it like 😉

I, and most people I suspect, do not have sufficient disposable income to act charitably towards a private business.

Why should we act charitably towards anyone, why should my taxes pay for someone else to get free operations and stuff? its all self, self, self innit 😉

Now, either LBS's recognise this fact, in these austere times, and adapt to the market, or they don't survive. Simple economics.

How about public sector unions and employee's recognise it too eh?

should the Governemnt intervene, to bail out the localised cycle retail industry?

Fred - you still don't get it do you? Thats exactly what Thatcher refused to do with the Miners, innit!

we'll say it again for you:

Why did the mines, the steelyards, the car manufacturers close down?

[b]Because we could by it from somewhere else cheaper of course [/b]

Maybe the govt might bail the nations LBS's out one day like the financial sector.

Or not.

[b]Well I'd like to go through with the sale with this place as they've been most helpful. If I get the price matched, then it gives me money in my pocket to spend on other things, such as the two helmets & a nice set of pedals (all will be purchased in this same store).

The bikes are both a 2011 model. One is a proper LBS and the other is a Specialized Concept Store but I'd still say pretty local as everyone and their dog rides the big S around here (watching a dog ride a bike is hilarious by the way)[/b]

So; a LBS does have something to offer that an online retailer does not in any way, after all then? So there is added value in shopping at a LBS?

In your example, you took the value that was added by the LBS (they had a physical product you could try on) but you gave them nothing. Not a capital offense, but you should be doing time 👿

Why should we act charitably towards anyone, why should my taxes pay for someone else to get free operations and stuff?

See, the thing you've missed (and it's a big one), is that whether I spend my money in a LBS or online, it's still going into the economy. Basically, more is being spent on cycling anyway, and the online retailers have added to that. So the balance of power is being shifted from the high street to online retailers. Money's still going into the economy though, is not it? And those industries are still paying taxes, aren't they?

So forget the public service comparison cos it's invalid. Totally irrelevant to this argument. We're talking about private sector vs private sector, so quite why you've involved comparison with the public sector I have no idea. This iuzzunt about political ideology no matter how much you want it to be, it's about simple economics.

Seems you jolly well have not got that point yet, in spite of me pointing it out to you [i]several times[/i] now.

[img] [/img]

whether i spend my money in a LBS or online, it's still going into the economy Basically, more is being spent on cycling anyway, and the online retailers have added to that. So the balance of power is being shifted from the high street to online retailers.

I suppose it duzzunt [i]really[/i] matter whether ambulance drivers and bin collectors are employed by the public sector either duzzit, coz that money's still going into the economy - thats your argument that is!

Money's still going into the economy though, is not it? And those industries are still paying taxes, aren't they?

No, course not - them big companies find a way out of all the taxes, its like Tesco and Vodafone, innit!

Tell me Fred - why do you think online retailers sell it cheaper, its coz their overheads are lower - that absolutely shoots through your own point in one easy step - their overheads are LOWER, cos there is less money going in wages, rent and taxes - thats hows they operate like!

Zulu-Eleven - Member

..your making a bigger tit of yourself with every subsequent post mate.

As the saying goes ..

[i]Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt[/i]

Well, no, cos for example CRC or Merlin will buy OE stuff direct from Shimano, (or Commencal, or whoever) so you've just put the distributor out of a job

So how do we takle this problem then? Surely there needs to be increased solidarity within the whole cycling trade then? Somewhat difficult, considering they're all businesses essentially competing with one another...

What about companies like On-One, what source stuff directly from abroad, sell only online, undercut the competition and I'd imagine do ok? Aren't they the same as the Evil CRC etc?

there is less money going in wages, rent and taxes - thats hows they operate like!

What about all the delivery drivers who drive stuff all over the UK? What about their wages and taxes?

So are you saying the economy is benefiting [i]less[/i] from online retailers like CRC than LBS's then? Got any figures to prove this?

See, instead of trying to stupidly score points, Labby, I'm presenting the harsh reality of the current economic situation, then looking for ways we can find possible solutions. All you're doing is trying to get one over someone on the internet. Cos, like, that's so big and brave. 🙄

And what about the notion of imposing taxes on online sales? Oh no sorry I forgot you don't like taxes, do you?

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

Turning into a very funny thread - unscripted, ironic genius. Excellent!!

[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/uk-cycling-market-now-worth-215bn-28665/ ]

The UK cycling market has expanded rapidly over the past couple of years and is now worth over £2.15 billion, new research suggests.

.....

For their Project Velo report, Allegra Strategies looked at consumer spending on bikes and accessories. They estimate that by 2015, the value of the market will exceed £3 billion – and that doesn't include money spent on things like cycling holidays and race entries.

So, with cycling being a 'growing market', surely this will benefit the UK economy increasingly over the coming years?

And in an expaynding market, surely there is place for the LBS? No?

And CRC* and Wiggle both started out as small independent retailers, yet through prudence and smart business acumen, have grown exponentially into hugely successful companies. Surely this is the Capitalist Dream? No? Be better than the competition, eliminate the competition, operate a monopoly- power ensured.

So; limit just how big a LBS can get via the introduction of legislation perhaps? But surely that would interfere with the Free Market model?

Evans are looking a bit too big; time to reel them in? Limit their ability to grow?

*Don't CRC just have the one retail outlet? So am I not ultimately supporting a Local Bike Shop? One which is based in an economically deprived part of the UK, at that? One which employs local people in that area, thus contributing to the Local Economy?

I'm a bit confuddled. What to do, eh? 😐

Sigh....

I'm presenting the harsh reality of the current economic situation, then looking for ways we can find possible solutions.

How about we all stop thinking about the short term benefit of pennies in our pockets and [i]All[/i] start using the LBS... they get more trade and can possibly start to leverage this, pass on cheaper products to us and still offer that great service?

I'd like to, TSY, I'd like to, but if CRC have what I need for cheaper, it's very difficult to. 🙁

Oh, and the less I spend on bike stuffs, the more I have left to spend in the local shops here! 😮

So, ultimately, CRC is actually helping the local economy where I live! Winner! 😀

(Feels much better about self now)

it's very difficult to

Yep, I hear that. It takes a big man to set aside their own greed for the benefit of the local community.

Luckily you've found a way of reconciling this. 😆

Sorry Elfin - your defence of Wiggle and CRC only seem to be supporting my point that deep down at heart, you're a Thatcherite, despite all the faux left wing bollox that you continually spout on this site.

Your focus on, and I'll use your words:

Business is business; dog eat dog. My priority is to myself, I can't be concerned with the profit margins of others.

Is the capitalist, right wing, free market dream come real - competition reduces prices, bang on - seriously, seeing statements like that come from Lefties gives me wood, because seeing you say that proves to me that we've won 😈

Oh dear. She's babbling now. 😐

you're a Thatcherite

I'm afraid not Labby. No matter how much you scream and stamp your feet. 😆

I do live in a society where Thatcherite policies have helped dictate the way we shop, however. That does not in any way make me a Thatcherite I'm afraid. Soz to wee on your chips. 😐

Let's see now, my money, need to buy something, where from, various options, one cheaper than other with no disadvantages or penalties, overall economy still benefits, ah....

That's about it done now. The best way to help my local economy is to spend less elsewhere.

Simples. 😀

What's better, a cycling Thatcherite or a non-cycling Socialist? Just wondering.

Well That's a huge price difference and too big to ignore if it's a like for like comparison .

Problem with price matching is that the LBS will give you advice regarding which bike suits your needs best , fits you etc . Then they will sell you the bike . Then they will carry out after sales service , free service , correct eny problems , cable stretch , suspension set up etc .

Now I appreciate that many experienced cyclists may not need these services to the same degree as a beginner but when you price match the LBS with the internet you are comparing somebody who will carry out all phases of selling a bike and not just selling it only .

One thing that might help is to go to your LBS and tell them what you're going to order online and at what price and ask if they'll order it in for you.

Bike 1 - £3200

Bike 2 - £2300

Both identical.

So some of you would spend the extra £900? Right then. I'm sure you would! You're either liars or ****ing loaded. If it is the latter I'll send you my address so you can throw some more money away for bugger all!

Problem with price matching is that the LBS will give you advice regarding which bike suits your needs best , fits you etc . Then they will sell you the bike . Then they will carry out after sales service , free service , correct eny problems , cable stretch , suspension set up etc .

Don't tell Labby right, cos it'll ruin his day, but every bike I've ever bought (bar from one frame) has bin from a LBS, and probbly about 90% of all the money I've spent on new bike stuff has bin spent in LBS's.

People like me are why LBS owners can't afford to feed their children. It's so sad. 😥

Should I stop buying second hand stuff cos of the huge negative effect on the economy? But what about the negative effect on the planet, of too much stuffs being made and not enough recycling?

Oh it's not easy this, is it?

Let's see now, my money, need to buy something, where from, various options, one cheaper than other with [u]no disadvantages or penalties[/u], overall economy still benefits, ah....

Maybe not to you, but how about to wider society, eh Freddie?

Why can't independents form a buying cooperative? Independent electrical retailers have with the Euronics idea allowing them to compete with the big sheds. A thriving shop I know is the hub of a successful club (cycleopedia and JIF in cardiff), and thru the club they provide coaching sessions on track etc. LBS need to exploit their USP; service. Anyone who has bought anything from CRC or wiggle or any other mail order discounter is a hypocrite bashing elfin, because you've shopped on the basis of price to your own benefit and to the detriment of your local retailer.
I'm a liberal minded public sector worker but this debate is about rivals in a private sector consumerism driven business.
900 quid is too much to be principled about.

So some of you would spend the extra £900? Right then. I'm sure you would! You're either liars or **** loaded. If it is the latter I'll send you my address so you can throw some more money away for bugger all!

I'm neither, but when I make a deal I stick to it...it's a simple thing but one that few people seem to stick with these days...I've no doubt spent over the odds on some things over the years but I'm happy with my decisions...a fair number of mates I know are the same...guess it depends on your values/beliefs...at the end of the day, the service you get (including the product) is the thing your money is paying for...so as long as I you feel as though you have gained a good deal then there isn't an issue.

I'm not anti-LBS or anti-online (likewise I'm not pro- either of them either)...they both work very well...but they are completely different things and I use them both but for different things.

Elfinsafety - Member

I'd like to, TSY, I'd like to, but if CRC have what I need for cheaper, it's very difficult to

I suppose the bit I don't get, is if you want the online price why don't just you buy online rather than go into a shop try something on then ask for the online price? It's not something I would do for any product, bike related or not, if I want the online price I buy online.

Sounds like you want it both ways.

I did hear of a story that retailers in Australia were 'charging' for people to try on shoes, then taking that 'charge' off the price if they bought them. Don't know if it worked mind.

Maybe not to you, but how about to wider society, eh Freddie?

I've explained this several times, not that you bother to read owt, always looking for some way to outdo me (which you've never ever achieved on here don't know why you persist quite frankly 🙄 ):

Finite sum of money. Less money spent on bike stuffs = more money spent with local businesses close to me. 😀

So, same amount of money spent in total. Simple maffs really.

Anyone who has bought anything from CRC or wiggle or any other mail order discounter is a hypocrite bashing elfin, because you've shopped on the basis of price to your own benefit and to the detriment of your local retailer...

....this debate is about rivals in a private sector consumerism driven business.

At last; someone who can think things through rationally and objectively. Thank you. 🙂

Whatever - I'm not reading all that lot (too many quotes)

But...

I wouldn't take the piss from a bricks and mortar shop by trying on gear there - then buying online.

That's the line. Look.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sc-xc +1

And that's the crux for me when it comes to buying

Fred's reverse gears are crunching.

I suppose the bit I don't get, is if you want the online price why don't just you buy online rather than go into a shop try something on then ask for the online price?

I asked if they would match the price (or even get close to it) that several other retailers including indy shops were doing them for, but then they said they only matched 'normal' retail prices. The irony is, that a few weeks later they then have exactly the same product I asked them to PM, for less than the discounted sale price I bought them for anyway. 😆

So, had they PMed the shoes that day, they'duv ultimately ended up with more money through their till than the No Sale they did get or even their eventual sale price. Hey ho.

And now, cosov that, I may now choose not to shop with them again, so they've potentially missed out on any future sales to me as well. Remember that bit about keeping customers happy...?

Fred's reverse gears are crunching.

No, that's your brain, trying to keep uop. I'm steaming Full Speed Ahead mate. 😉

(Did you see what I did there? Do you like it? Good, weren't it? 🙂 )

I'm steaming Full Speed Ahead mate.

I believe the phrase is "I'm keeping digging"

Oh, you din't get it.

😐

Never mind....

Got owt intelligent to add, or just yer usual rubbish?

No, thought not. Off you go now please, thanks.

No, thought not. Off you go now please, thanks.

No actually I think I'll hang around, pop in every now again just to see how you're doing on this one. 😆

And don't forget "Simple economics, innit? Buy wherever is cheapest.", I think that quote might come back to haunt you.

This is simple, be resonable ask them to price match, if they can't go else where assuming your deposit isn't bigger than 900 quid.

Not a moral dilema at all, you're not being underhand and you don't owe anyone a living. Not sure why some people treat bike shops as a charity?

If I went to our customers at work and asked them to pay nearly 40% extra for the same product they'd laugh in my face, and rightly so!

Elf, I can see the irony in that especially if they advertise a price match option and also notice that you spend most of your money in LBSs 🙂 but just to re-quote what you said earlier and to try to explain where I'm coming from:

[b]No bike shop gets my business unless they're at least pretty close to what I can get something for online.[/b] Recently went to a bike shop (expaynding chain actually), tried some shoes on, asked them to price match the sale price [b]most other retailers[/b] were offering, they said no, I walked out and bought them online. So, used their facilities to try on for size, yet they get no benefit at all. Despite offering a 'price match' service

Now because your first sentence mentioned online, I took that as the context and therefore you were asking for price matching against online, subsequently you have said

several other retailers including indy shops

So here is a question for you; there's a jacket you would like rrp £120, you know the online retailers have it at £72 (40% discount unlikely to be price matched by an indy lbs). Do you buy it online or do you go try them out for size first in an indy lbs?